HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2012, 03:53 PM
  #1
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 11,345
vCash: 500
Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

Remember how she said that
We would meet again
Some sunny day? - Roger Waters


Carry on, previous thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1282517

mouser is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 03:58 PM
  #2
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,261
vCash: 500
Get a deal done............come on ........

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #3
Langdon Alger*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Get a deal done............come on ........
Puck drops January 1. I'd bet money on it if I had some to spare.

Langdon Alger* is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:00 PM
  #4
Timmy
Registered User
 
Timmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,727
vCash: 500
And when they've given you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall.

Timmy is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:01 PM
  #5
Phil Parent
Is Watching The D
 
Phil Parent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sorel-Tracy, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,953
vCash: 50
Are we idiots because we care?

Wondered about this today. Most of our livelihoods don't depend on this. What if they don't play the next 5 years, **** them!

....but see, I just can't say "**** them!"

I guess I'm an idiot. Or, a Canadian.

Phil Parent is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:01 PM
  #6
Hullois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
The owners are being ridiculous, even after the players concede the 50/50 split, owners want them to give up all contracts rights. And this whole "we make a take it or leave it offer, then go silent for two weeks" negociation technique from the NHL is bullcrap. And all that after the best season the league ever had.

Way to go owners, let's just kill the NHL.

Hullois is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:02 PM
  #7
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
No there wasn't a rookie cap of any kind before last year. You may be thinking of the NBA but there has been nothing in the NFL.
The NFL has had a rookie salary pool for years. Each team was allocated a certain percentage they could spend on their rookies, based on where they pick and the number of picks they have.

The new CBA set forth a wage scale, which dramatically lowered how much rookies can make.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:02 PM
  #8
SaintPatrick33
Conn Smythe Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Remember how she said that
We would meet again
Some sunny day? - Roger Waters


Carry on, previous thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1282517
He he he

SaintPatrick33 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:06 PM
  #9
mossey3535
Registered User
 
mossey3535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,310
vCash: 500
No, the players would NOT be better off with a union. And everyone knows what I think of the current situation.

They need to blow up their union and completely revamp it. You'd think that getting bent over a barrel twice by their own PA leader would teach them that they need to be more involved in union affairs.

I really believe hockey players are among the most intelligent in all of sports (not that the bar is particularly high). However, like many athletes they blindly let others take care of matters they don't think are important, like finances. Besides lavish lifestyle, that's why you see pro athletes going broke - they consistently get bad financial advice and are not involved enough in their own affairs to catch embezzlement or fraud until it's too late.

That's the difference IMO with Fehr and Bettmann right now. Make no mistake, I don't like Gary. He's a jerk. (I do respect some of the things he's accomplished though) Both have some pretty heavy-handed controls over the people they represent.

However, who do you think is more likely to suddenly and without warning fire their representative - 30 billionaire owners who are used to getting what they want, or 700 disjointed players?

Who is in a better position to know exactly what their representative is doing for their benefit, and be willing to get rid of them?

You better believe it's the owners. If Gary was not doing his job to their satisfaction, it would be easy for all these rich guys to get together and fire him, 75% vote or not.

Right now Gary has a plan. You might not like it, but it makes at least some sense for everyone.

Don has no plan.

That's what it comes down to for me. I don't care who you like or don't like. I don't care about your petty semantic arguments that circle around the matter like pedantic vultures.

The games is being hurt by both sides. However as it stands, Gary isn't hurting the owners. But Don is hurting the players.

Why in the hell does that sound right to you? The bad guy isn't even playing the bad guy.

mossey3535 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:06 PM
  #10
Phil Parent
Is Watching The D
 
Phil Parent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sorel-Tracy, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,953
vCash: 50
According to RDS.ca they don't even communicate by phone or email anymore. That was some ugly meltdown :-s

Phil Parent is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:06 PM
  #11
Nanuk23
Registered User
 
Nanuk23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 382
vCash: 500
HockeyNightInCanada ‏@hockeynight
There is zero communication between sides in NHL labour dispute, with no meetings scheduled, no plans to meet

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...ehr-nhlpa.html

Nanuk23 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:06 PM
  #12
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
The owners are being ridiculous, even after the players concede the 50/50 split, owners want them to give up all contracts rights. And this whole "we make a take it or leave it offer, then go silent for two weeks" negociation technique from the NHL is bullcrap. And all that after the best season the league ever had.

Way to go owners, let's just kill the NHL.
Waits for someone to reply for the 1000th time explaining why it wasn't actually a 50/50 split the players proposed in their offer.

sheed36 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:12 PM
  #13
Yog S'loth
Registered User
 
Yog S'loth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,329
vCash: 500
Although our tools of communication are different, it's amazing how much this lockout feels like the last one.

Despite the issues at hand being of vastly different scale, we still have the same rhetoric and posturing. The same self-unaware nonsense spouted by players. The same overwhelming sense of impending, and inevitable, collapse by the union. The same anger and frustration from the fans that millionaires and billionaires just can't get it figured out. The same irrational and self-defeating behavior from both sides.

The same mixture of foolish hope that something gets done, mixed with the absolute certainty that it won't.

Yog S'loth is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:13 PM
  #14
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
 
CpatainCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Waits for someone to reply for the 1000th time explaining why it wasn't actually a 50/50 split the players proposed in their offer.
Indeed: I find it odd that people come into this thread with accusations without actually knowing the latest offers proffered by each side...at least as much as has been reported.

CpatainCanuck is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:14 PM
  #15
Hullois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Indeed: I find it odd that people come into this thread with accusations without actually knowing the latest offers proffered by each side...at least as much as has been reported.
Some people don't care that it will only be 50/50 after year 3, it still will be 50/50 forever after (or 'till the next CBA fiasco)

Hullois is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:17 PM
  #16
JDMSG
Registered User
 
JDMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bergen County, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post

The same mixture of foolish hope that something gets done, mixed with the absolute certainty that it won't.
THIS

Absolutely true... And that is what scares the crap out of me.

JDMSG is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:19 PM
  #17
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
The owners are being ridiculous, even after the players concede the 50/50 split, owners want them to give up all contracts rights. And this whole "we make a take it or leave it offer, then go silent for two weeks" negociation technique from the NHL is bullcrap. And all that after the best season the league ever had.

Way to go owners, let's just kill the NHL.
The players never agreed to a 50/50 split, ever. They agreed to make every cent of their current deals until revenues raise high enough that their contracts are 50/50. Oh, and they want a guarantees 1.75% raise on top of that.

Ragamuffin Gunner is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:21 PM
  #18
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
The old rules were negotiated by Tagliabue and my entire point is that he had just as difficult a situation as Bettman and he handled it well.. And the NFLPA didn't come close to getting screwed under him.
This is even weirder than the notion that Chris Gratton's "right in line with his comparables" contract from the late 90s is in any way comparable to Shawn Horcoff's grossly out of whack with his comparables contract.

The NFLPA doesn't have guaranteed contracts and, until really recently, offered no medical assistance to retired players who sustained injuries during play. They enjoy the shortest careers, most post-retirement health issues, lowest life expectancy, worst average annual compensation/retirement benefits, and all of this despite playing in the highest-profit team sport.

If the deals the NFL (Goodell/Tagliabue) has shoved down the weak NFLPA's throat over the years doesn't represent a screwing, nothing does, and it certainly cannot be argued that the NHLPA has had it bad under Bettman.

billybudd is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:21 PM
  #19
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The NFL has had a rookie salary pool for years. Each team was allocated a certain percentage they could spend on their rookies, based on where they pick and the number of picks they have.

The new CBA set forth a wage scale, which dramatically lowered how much rookies can make.

Please, explain why if GB is such a bad commissioner that NHL player salaries have increased at twice the rate of NFL players.

Orrthebest is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:22 PM
  #20
Raging Bull
Registered User
 
Raging Bull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,408
vCash: 500
Sweet title. Made me look up the song on youtube to listen to it.

Raging Bull is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:23 PM
  #21
Hullois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
The players never agreed to a 50/50 split, ever. They agreed to make every cent of their current deals until revenues raise high enough that their contracts are 50/50. Oh, and they want a guarantees 1.75% raise on top of that.
Sure, I mean its not like revenues always end up growing, making it a matter of time for it to be 50/50.

But the way the owners are screwing the whole thing now, it may take a while. But that's on them.

Hullois is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:23 PM
  #22
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
 
CpatainCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
Some people don't care that it will only be 50/50 after year 3, it still will be 50/50 forever after (or 'till the next CBA fiasco)
That's assuming record revenue growth continues over the next 3 years...which it is unlikely to do. Especially as fans become more and more ticked off as this lockout lasts longer and longer.

CpatainCanuck is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:24 PM
  #23
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,694
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk23 View Post
HockeyNightInCanada ‏@hockeynight
There is zero communication between sides in NHL labour dispute, with no meetings scheduled, no plans to meet

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...ehr-nhlpa.html
Huffing and puffing. We're all suitably impressed.

Freudian is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:27 PM
  #24
Hullois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
That's assuming record revenue growth continues over the next 3 years...which it is unlikely to do. Especially as fans become more and more ticked off as this lockout lasts longer and longer.
Nobody in NBA world is talking about the last lockout now. If Bettman can put his ego aside and get a deal ASAP, revenues will start growing again next season. Maybe not 7%, but it won't be long untill it reach somewhere close to that. But if they cancel the season, it may take a long long time for revenues to grow like that, you are right. But again, that's all on the owners.

Hullois is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 04:28 PM
  #25
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
 
CpatainCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
Nobody in NBA world is talking about the last lockout now. If Bettman can put his ego aside and get a deal ASAP, revenues will start growing again next season. Maybe not 7%, but it won't be long untill it reach somewhere close to that. But if they cancel the season, it may take a long long time for revenues to grow like that, you are right. But again, that's all on the owners.
It's not on the owners because they aren't going to take the NHLPA up on their offer. The owners have all the leverage in this lockout, and the sooner the players realize this and cut their losses the better off they will be now and in the future.

CpatainCanuck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.