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Who Makes the HHOF?

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Old
11-11-2012, 07:44 PM
  #101
pdd
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Anyone who calls the Sedins locks are confused about the definition of a lock.

Ovechkin might not even be a lock.
Ovechkin is absolutely a lock. He has two Harts, three Lindsays, five first-teams, and an Art Ross. Four top-three finishes and five top-seven finishes in points. Absolutely a lock.

Both Sedins have accomplished more offensively in terms of awards and offense than many HHOFers who were considered locks when they retired. Have the criteria changed?

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:27 PM
  #102
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Ovie Crosby and Malkin are definitely locks. Stamkos is up in the air still, will need a few more big seasons/awards.

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11-11-2012, 08:31 PM
  #103
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I heard they do HoF stats by combining player's awards. They are twin brothers. When they get in, they will be inducted together thus it is only fair to combine their accomplishments.



Pretty irrelevant. Not really. They were drafted #2 and #3 overall. The higher you're drafted, the more pedigree you hold. Being drafted that high is an accomplishment in itself.



Ok.



Because they had a lot of competition in that respect, right? Last time I checked, it was called the Hall of FAME. They are the most famous twins in hockey history.



You don't qualify someone as a lock based on future performance. That's not how it works.

If a player is a lock, then he's a lock RIGHT NOW.

If you think that player will become a lock by the end of his career, then you call him a "probable".

The main argument that people bring up on the topic of the Sedins and the HHOF is that they do not have enough career totals. This is why I brought my point up. They will easily have a 1000 points each by the end of their careers. They would still be locks even if they retired today. Not first ballot, but they'd get in eventually.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #104
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Are those seriously your answers ?

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11-11-2012, 11:51 PM
  #105
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Answers in your edit.
Sedin's are a maybe but Ovechkin is on thw wrong track? Dude, what have you been smoking?

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:59 PM
  #106
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Ovechkin is absolutely a lock. He has two Harts, three Lindsays, five first-teams, and an Art Ross. Four top-three finishes and five top-seven finishes in points. Absolutely a lock.
I used Ovechkin as kind of an example, in that there are people who don't consider him a lock. I absolutely think he makes the hall.

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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Both Sedins have accomplished more offensively in terms of awards and offense than many HHOFers who were considered locks when they retired. Have the criteria changed?
Can you give me 5 examples? Burden of proof


Last edited by Unaffiliated: 11-13-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 08:02 PM
  #107
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So we're combining their stats. I guess their 2009-2010 season puts them in Mario Lemieux's skill level, eh?




Oh, and:
****, man, hockey hall of FAME. Better induct BizNasty.




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Are those seriously your answers ?
I know lol

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:06 PM
  #108
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Old
11-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #109
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The Sedins will definitely get in, if not for their actual play, but the fact that they are identical twins and were able to play at such a high level, together, is truly dynamic.

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:40 PM
  #110
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I don't see any reason why Sedins would make it to hhof but Datsyuk not. IMO Datsyuk goes there bey before Sedins.

Dats has:
TWO Stanley Cups
FOUR Lady Byng Trophies
THREE Selke Trophies
0.98 PPG regular season, 94 points in playoffs

D. Sedin:
Art Ross
Lindsay
0.84 PPG, 62 points in playoffs

H. Sedin:
Art Ross
Hart
0.84 PPG, 71 points in playoffs

It's really cool thing Sedins are twins but Datstyuk still steals the puck.

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Old
11-14-2012, 05:32 PM
  #111
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I used Ovechkin as kind of an example, in that there are people who don't consider him a lock. I absolutely think he makes the hall.

Can you give me 5 examples? Burden of proof
Milt Schmidt.
Charlie Conacher.
Bill Mosienko.
Tom Johnson.
George Armstrong. Retired the same year as Andy Bathgate and went in three years sooner.

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:10 PM
  #112
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Old
11-14-2012, 11:22 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by The Saw Is the Law View Post
I don't see any reason why Sedins would make it to hhof but Datsyuk not. IMO Datsyuk goes there bey before Sedins.

Dats has:
TWO Stanley Cups
FOUR Lady Byng Trophies
THREE Selke Trophies
2nd all-star team
0.98 PPG regular season, 94 points in playoffs

D. Sedin:
Art Ross
Lindsay
Olympic Gold
1st all-star team
2nd all-star team
0.84 PPG, 62 points in playoffs

H. Sedin:
Art Ross
Hart
Olympic Gold
2x 1st all-star team
Captained team to 2 PTs in a row + WCC (fwiw)
0.84 PPG, 71 points in playoffs

It's really cool thing Sedins are twins but Datstyuk still steals the puck.
I agree, I think Datsyuk as well as the Sedins have a pretty good chance of making the Hall, though I would guess none of them are locks.

They also happen to be 3 of my very favourite players in the league and all-time.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Milt Schmidt.
Charlie Conacher.
Bill Mosienko.
Tom Johnson.
George Armstrong. Retired the same year as Andy Bathgate and went in three years sooner.
Is there a site where you can find HHOF members listed along with their trophies?

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11-17-2012, 02:53 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Milt Schmidt.
Charlie Conacher.
Bill Mosienko.
Tom Johnson.
George Armstrong. Retired the same year as Andy Bathgate and went in three years sooner.
How was Conacher considered a lock when he retired (as a player) when the Hall of Fame didn't even exist yet? Lol

And anyway, I'd say Conacher was more accomplished than either Sedin. 5 equivalent Rocket Richards?

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11-17-2012, 03:02 PM
  #116
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Is there a site where you can find HHOF members listed along with their trophies?
You can use the "play index" on hockey-reference and sort by HOF players.

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:21 PM
  #117
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I wonder if a defensive defenseman like Rod Langway will make it in ever again.

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:48 PM
  #118
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What a joke. Henrik Sedin has put up 75 or more points every year since the lockout (7 years).

Alfredsson wasn't a late bloomer? Is that why he had his highest point total in his career at the age of 32?

And how does Alfredsson have a better playoff resume than the Sedins? Alfie has a 0.81 career PPG in the post season while Henrik and Daniel are sitting at 0.75 and 0.71 respectively.

Alfredsson and the Sedins have both lead their teams to a Cup final so I don't see how he is more successful in the playoffs. In fact, if I recall, the Sens got embarrassed in 5 games as opposed to the Canucks losing in 7.
They have many major similarities, all things considered.

-Olympic golds all around (of note: Alfredsson led the Swedes in scoring)
-Finals appearances all around (of note: Alfredsson led the playoffs in scoring)
-One 100 point season each (of note: Henrik and Daniel led the league in scoring respectively)
-Consistency in reaching the 70-plus point plateau (Alfredsson-10, Henrik-7, Daniel-6)

What I have a problem with is your assertion that a late-round draft pick Calder winner was a late bloomer. Very counterintuitive. His peak was in his 30's? That means he was consistently good from the moment he entered the league. The Sedins, being high picks and all, were the late bloomers, and if anything, those mediocre seasons were the difference between Alfredsson and the Sedins' HHOF chances at this juncture. His PPG average is superior.

Anyhow, should they continue to produce at a high level and get closer to the point a game mark, they will have a good shot. They'll have to lead the charge to some sort of victory though, as their 'unclutch' factor is problematic (Alfredsson led the Swedes to Gold, and rewrote the SEL record book in the lockout year en route to a championship). And one final point, I don't consider Alfredsson to be a lock. He's close, but two lockouts hurt his chances.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:20 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
You can use the "play index" on hockey-reference and sort by HOF players.
You can also bring up the classes by induction year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post
How was Conacher considered a lock when he retired (as a player) when the Hall of Fame didn't even exist yet? Lol

And anyway, I'd say Conacher was more accomplished than either Sedin. 5 equivalent Rocket Richards?
It was created two years after he retired; that's close enough. If you want to argue that, Henri Richard is comparable in individual achievements.

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11-17-2012, 04:53 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
I wonder if a defensive defenseman like Rod Langway will make it in ever again.
Langway could be argued as a player who didn't deserve to make it. He won two Norrises he didn't deserve, beating out notably superior defensemen in Mark Howe (1983) and Ray Bourque (1984), both of whom were very good defensively in their own right as well as FAR better offensively. Langway's defense was great, but not THAT great. IMHO, Howe, Bourque, Coffey, and Potvin all were better both years. Coffey scored 96 and 126 points to lead defensemen, respectively - Langway wasn't 70 points worth of defense better than Coffey in 1983, and certainly not 100 points better in 1984. In making the assumption Bob Gainey was the best defensive forward ever, that would then make the argument that Gainey, not Lafleur, was the best Montreal forward in the late 70s. Which is an insane argument. Langway's win over Howe (Howe still trounced him in All-Star voting) is one of the major reasons Howe's entry was delayed for so long.

That said, the Hall is for the absolute elite. Can you realistically say there are any purely defensive defensemen in the league who have been elite defensemen? Derian Hatcher received a Norris nomination, but IMHO wasn't even the best defenseman on his team. And he certainly didn't maintain that level of play. Chara is about the closest thing we've seen, and he developed from a pylon to a defensive guy, and then into a two way monster. Konstantinov might have been the guy, but his career was obviously cut short by his accident. And he had notably better offensive skills than Langway; in addition to having a higher PPG in a lower scoring era, Konstantinov missed out on a lot of points because the Wings' puck possession style under Bowman was about quality, rather than quantity. This led to Konstantinov being the "third assist" on many plays; an important pass without a credited point.

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Old
11-17-2012, 04:54 PM
  #121
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Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson
The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist

Bold = Definitely
Italic = Probably
Getzlaf, Perry = Probably Not

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Old
11-17-2012, 05:51 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson
The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist

Bold = Definitely
Italic = Probably
Getzlaf, Perry = Probably Not
Sadly, Perry is probably going in. He has a Hart trophy to his name, and to my knowledge no eligible Hart winner is not in. Henrik Sedin gets the same. Datsyuk is highly decorated, as is Daniel Sedin. So they are a guaranteed as anyone. Iginla is definitely going in, as is Alfredsson.

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11-17-2012, 05:52 PM
  #123
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At some point or another...

Jaromir Jagr
Teemu Selanne
Chris Pronger
Jarome Iginla
Miikka Kiprusoff
Daniel Alfredsson
Tim Thomas
Martin St. Louis
Joe Thornton
Vincent Lecavalier
Pavel Datsyuk
Zdeno Chara
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin
Brad Richards
Henrik Lundqvist
Corey Perry
Ilya Kovalchuk
Rick Nash
Henrik Zetterberg
Alexander Ovechkin
Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Claude Giroux
Jonathan Toews
Steven Stamkos
Erik Karlsson
Drew Doughty

will most likely get in... some are safer than others.

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Old
11-17-2012, 06:03 PM
  #124
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Sadly, Perry is probably going in. He has a Hart trophy to his name, and to my knowledge no eligible Hart winner is not in. Henrik Sedin gets the same. Datsyuk is highly decorated, as is Daniel Sedin. So they are a guaranteed as anyone. Iginla is definitely going in, as is Alfredsson.
Well we know Theodore will not get in. Unless Perry can string together a few more elite seasons I dont think he will get in.

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Old
11-17-2012, 07:03 PM
  #125
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You can use the "play index" on hockey-reference and sort by HOF players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
You can also bring up the classes by induction year.

Thanks!

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