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Off-season Madness the 3rd: Jeffrey Loria taketh and Jeffrey Loria giveth away

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Old
11-14-2012, 06:49 PM
  #851
p.l.f.
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lets get joey votto
he belongs here lol

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11-14-2012, 06:50 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Your post read, to me, like you thought Anibal Sanchez was equivalent in terms of pitching ability to Josh Johnson.
Not at all. I was implying that if you moved Johnson cause you could not get a long term deal you could plug Sanchez into the lineup and it would be still good and the players brought in by a Johnson trade could plug say the DH or LF spots and maybe bring a high level prospect back for AAA.

Johnson is a better pitcher talent wise but over the last 2 years Sanchez is not as far behind him number wises.

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11-14-2012, 06:51 PM
  #853
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He's an agent, are you surprised?

I think it's a little premature to analyze signing him.
A bit surprised yeah. Not that an agent will talk up his guy, but just the timing of it all and the comments about AA's approach, the outward planning to the media....seems, I dunno...high maintenance?

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11-14-2012, 06:53 PM
  #854
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Lol Josh Johnson would have to have like a 20 win season to become the highest paid pitcher in baseball... and in that scenario we made the playoffs .... therefore revenue would be way up making it pretty easy to re-sign jj

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11-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Absolutely right. Let's just hope they trade the right ones.
I think we're going to see a quality arm come back that has options so they can be working in Buffalo and be the first option when someone gets hurt.


Right now who's the first call up, Jenkins?

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11-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by flames12 View Post
I still think we are getting Josh Hamilton and Zack Greinke or Marcum as well. The Jays have the richest ownership in all of baseball, why not?
Greinke? Don't be silly. Lohse, however, is a lock.

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11-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #857
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Because its a full time job to follow every prospect in the system. I'm a blue jays fan and and am interested in what the blue jays are doing. When these young guns start making a push for the majors, that is when I take notice. Prospects are just that, prospects. There are many examples of kids looking great at 20/21 in single or double A but never amount to much in the majors. I'm getting a vibe from you that your one who values prospects higher than proven major league talent, because they still hold that ever so nice sounding Potential.

We still have a too farm system, we retain our prospects that make sense in the timeframe for the BlueJays, in addition to a very veristle lineup and bench, very respectable rotation and a bullpen that is coming together nicely.

No I don't have an extensive, fully self-formed opinions on every single prospect. I said I didn't know nothing, I said I didn't know much. I'm aware he was a top prospect for us, but was very far out from having a shot at the bigs, and even further from realizing his potential, if he ever does. In four or five years when he would be maybe ready for full time major league work, where is the rest of the team? In shambles because we didn't make moves for he now, just sat on our behinds while we wait for prospects who may or may not turn out.
See this is the problem. You might be a Jays fan but I have never seen you post once and its evident by you saying I value prospects over major league talent. Go read many of my posts from the past few months or talk to any of the regulars on this board and they will tell you I've actually been saying we should make a prospects for ML talent deal for AWHILE. I just have a issue with someone coming in and saying this trade will be a wash even if JJ walks, but then goes onto say they really dont know much about the best prospect we gave up in the deal. I just expect someone to have a little better knowledge of the lead prospect we gave up if there willing to say things like trades a wash or that the trade only gets bad if Nicolino is the next Shields (not even sure where this comparison came from).

I never once said I hated this deal. I was actually extremely pro from the start but that was under the impression we would do everything to get JJ signed and hopefully keep him longterm. If he walks for nothing it would definitely make this trade alot different in my views.

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11-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #858
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Reality is
Johnson is closer to being A.J Burnett
Then
Johnson being Halladay

I'm a huge fan of JJ but he scares the hell out of me

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11-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #859
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Let's all hope that they will stay healthy!

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11-14-2012, 06:55 PM
  #860
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Not at all. I was implying that if you moved Johnson cause you could not get a long term deal you could plug Sanchez into the lineup and it would be still good and the players brought in by a Johnson trade could plug say the DH or LF spots and maybe bring a high level prospect back for AAA.

Johnson is a better pitcher talent wise but over the last 2 years Sanchez is not as far behind him number wises.
My mistake.

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11-14-2012, 06:57 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
My mistake.
This flipping a pitcher plan and replacing him with Sanchez would be WAY better if it was Buehrle.....that'd be some slick stuff.

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11-14-2012, 06:58 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by aingefan View Post
This flipping a pitcher plan and replacing him with Sanchez would be WAY better if it was Buehrle.....that'd be some slick stuff.
Agreed.

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11-14-2012, 07:00 PM
  #863
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Agreed.
So, if there's no pitbull ban in Chicago, who's the impact bat and emerging prospect package from either team

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11-14-2012, 07:01 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by aingefan View Post
This flipping a pitcher plan and replacing him with Sanchez would be WAY better if it was Buehrle.....that'd be some slick stuff.
I read something crazy earlier today.
Apparently Buerhle has Pitbulls. He apparently had to live in a certain area in Miami that allowed Pitbulls because parts of Miami outlawed it. Ontario has a law that restricts someone from owning one apparently. I wonder how much this is going to be a problem considering his dogs are apparently so important to him.

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11-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
I read something crazy earlier today.
Apparently Buerhle has Pitbulls. He apparently had to live in a certain area in Miami that allowed Pitbulls because parts of Miami outlawed it. Ontario has a law that restricts someone from owning one apparently. I wonder how much this is going to be a problem considering his dogs are apparently so important to him.
Lol, read my post at 800, when you were posting yours.

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11-14-2012, 07:08 PM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
I read something crazy earlier today.
Apparently Buerhle has Pitbulls. He apparently had to live in a certain area in Miami that allowed Pitbulls because parts of Miami outlawed it. Ontario has a law that restricts someone from owning one apparently. I wonder how much this is going to be a problem considering his dogs are apparently so important to him.
what's the status of the ban? i'm trying to find info on it and if/when it could be repealed

http://ckdp.ca/2012/02/24/pit-bull-b...-being-lifted/
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...-party-support

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11-14-2012, 07:08 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by aingefan View Post
This flipping a pitcher plan and replacing him with Sanchez would be WAY better if it was Buehrle.....that'd be some slick stuff.
Absolutely.

I don't think that's what ryno23 was implying, though. I think that the only reason why he would flip Johnson would be because there'd be absolutely no way to re-sign him. That really isn't an issue with Buehrle.

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:08 PM
  #868
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yeah I read that too! He had to live in another county outside Miami..all of Ontario has the pitbull ban, could be a problem.

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11-14-2012, 07:08 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
See this is the problem. You might be a Jays fan but I have never seen you post once and its evident by you saying I value prospects over major league talent. Go read many of my posts from the past few months or talk to any of the regulars on this board and they will tell you I've actually been saying we should make a prospects for ML talent deal for AWHILE. I just have a issue with someone coming in and saying this trade will be a wash even if JJ walks, but then goes onto say they really dont know much about the best prospect we gave up in the deal. I just expect someone to have a little better knowledge of the lead prospect we gave up if there willing to say things like trades a wash or that the trade only gets bad if Nicolino is the next Shields (not even sure where this comparison came from).

I never once said I hated this deal. I was actually extremely pro from the start but that was under the impression we would do everything to get JJ signed and hopefully keep him longterm. If he walks for nothing it would definitely make this trade alot different in my views.
You have a problem that I'm not on these boards everyday? So therefore my opinion is null? I see (not really). I guess i dont pass the HF post count check.

Again I don't know much, a whole lot, I did not say I know nothing. From what I've read about him and what I've seen of him and the opinions of those in the business that no more than you or I, we can handle the loss for an al star SS, reliable starter, both on good long deals, a solid bench player, and one of the top pitchers in baseball, albeit a short contract. You just advocated trading JJ for even more prospects. I don't understand your flip floppy line of thinking here, on this day at least. (As I cannot attest to your previous posts as no I'm not a regular)

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:09 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
There is a reason you haven't heard much talk about him. He couldn't even crack the Royals roster full-time the last two seasons. Last year he had no record in just 13 games and 13 IP, the year before just a 1-1 record in 15 innings and 14 games. He's pitched a grand total of 38.1 innings in 3 years in the majors.

Granted, he is only 25 years old so there is room for improvement. The bullpen is pretty loaded anyway so I don't even see room for him. Let him work on things at AA and see what happens during the season.
He's out of options, don't think he'll clear waivers

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:11 PM
  #871
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On tsn.ca there is a video called "Creating a Contender" where JJ's agent is interviewed, and he pretty much flat out says that JJ wont sign an extension.
To paraphrase him, he said that JJ will either have a very good year and could sign a contract making him the highest paid pitcher ever, or if he doesn't have an amazing year he'll still get a multi-year deal for a good amount of money.

He also says how AA doesn't like to spend a lot of money on pitchers, so that could mean JJ signs elsewhere next year.

And he also mentioned that he wouldn't be surprised if AA flips one of the big 3 Toronto acquired to help fill another position/replenish the farm.
He's just pumping up his client in advance of the contract that will make him (the agent) a crapload of money, so the interview and his commers were entirely self-seeving. He has no particular insight into Anthopolous, and certainly no insight into any further trades Anthopolous might make. Yes, in a hypothetical world another team could offer the Jays a king's random for Johnson, and Anthopolous could conceivably accept it, but it would have to be value above and beyond the compensation pick Toronto would receive if Johnson walks PLUS the benefit to the team of having him in the lineup in a year when they're definitely contending for the playoffs. Needless to say, that's a rather unlikely scenario.

Johnson - and his agent - also have to balance the risk if he gets injured during the season. Signing an extension early affords him protection. So the leverage is not all on the player's side.

Yes, Anthopolous could trade one of Johnson, Buehrle or Reyes, but it would just create a other hole and is therefore unlikely unless there are mitigating factors. Far more likely - near a certainty, I'd wager - is the trade of a catcher, possibly in a package, for another arm or an upgrade a LF or 2B.

So basically, don't take anything an agent has to say in a contract year seriously.

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:15 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
On tsn.ca there is a video called "Creating a Contender" where JJ's agent is interviewed, and he pretty much flat out says that JJ wont sign an extension.
To paraphrase him, he said that JJ will either have a very good year and could sign a contract making him the highest paid pitcher ever, or if he doesn't have an amazing year he'll still get a multi-year deal for a good amount of money.

He also says how AA doesn't like to spend a lot of money on pitchers, so that could mean JJ signs elsewhere next year.

And he also mentioned that he wouldn't be surprised if AA flips one of the big 3 Toronto acquired to help fill another position/replenish the farm.
See I interpreted that comment (extension wise) differently. It was more of a "he won't sign an extension now, rather he will wait until the offseason and look at his options and choose the best one for him".

I don't think he or his agent would be smart to make decisions on his future in this offseason. I love Johnson and his ability, but he has had trouble with injuries, and just this last year his FB velocity dropped around 1.5MPH.

I think we'll have a good shot at re-signing him. It's not like we haven't handed out big contracts in the past. I think for Johnson he doesn't want to potentially not cash in (ie if he goes back to 2010 form) by signing an under market value extension now. Works for us too.

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:15 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by aingefan View Post
So, if there's no pitbull ban in Chicago, who's the impact bat and emerging prospect package from either team
Rizzo

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11-14-2012, 07:18 PM
  #874
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yeah I read that too! He had to live in another county outside Miami..all of Ontario has the pitbull ban, could be a problem.
I have no idea what the laws are, however I know multiple pitbull owners in the GTA so I'm not so sure it will be much of a problem.

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11-14-2012, 07:23 PM
  #875
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I have no idea what the laws are, however I know multiple pitbull owners in the GTA so I'm not so sure it will be much of a problem.
he might have to smuggle them in, and honestly, he has the money to make this problem disappear

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