I am not sure why certain leafs fans is here, didn't he read in the FIRST POST?
If you're going to come here and tell Canuck fans what Luongo is worth and that they're wrong, word of advice; Don't.
Anyways, I think it will take JVR+Kadri+Bozak for Luongo and Raymond.
I am not sure why certain leafs fans is here, didn't he read in the FIRST POST?
If you're going to come here and tell Canuck fans what Luongo is worth and that they're wrong, word of advice; Don't.
Anyways, I think it will take JVR+Kadri+Bozak for Luongo and Raymond.
I hope this isn't refering to me. If so, maybe i wasn't clear, i just admited i was wrong about Luongo's contract being bad and that i WOULD do Vankillers proposals of Lupul 1st etc.
I am not sure why certain leafs fans is here, didn't he read in the FIRST POST?
If you're going to come here and tell Canuck fans what Luongo is worth and that they're wrong, word of advice; Don't.
Anyways, I think it will take JVR+Kadri+Bozak for Luongo and Raymond.
Actually, the Leaf fans around here have been pretty good. As a Canuck fan, I don't think the Leafs would trade 3 of their potential centers when that is a weak spot on their team. And quit trying to trade off Raymond - they already have players like him. Unless we could squeeze JVR out of them, I think the focus should be on the #1 pick and prospects.
Last edited by blendini: 11-14-2012 at 07:23 PM.
Reason: grammar
the package i want hasn't changed since the start:
young contributing NHLer (top 9 forward/top 6 defensman) + top prospect (legit blue chipper - not Kadri) + 1st round pick
TO doesn't have a blue chip prospect, so I suppose you wouldn't do any deal with them? (Gardiner has "graduated" and is no longer a prospect)
Also, if a team doesn't have a blue chip asset to give, then the best they can do is to offer two lesser prospects. But I suppose even that isn't good enough?
If you equate Colborne + Percy to a top prospect (not blue chip, which is even a level higher) then Colborne + Percy + Frattin (top 9 in TO) + 1st satisfies your criteria.
TO doesn't have a blue chip prospect, so I suppose you wouldn't do any deal with them? (Gardiner has "graduated" and is no longer a prospect)
Also, if a team doesn't have a blue chip asset to give, then the best they can do is to offer two lesser prospects. But I suppose even that isn't good enough?
If you equate Colborne + Percy to a top prospect (not blue chip, which is even a level higher) then Colborne + Percy + Frattin (top 9 in TO) + 1st satisfies your criteria.
TO doesn't have a blue chip prospect, so I suppose you wouldn't do any deal with them? (Gardiner has "graduated" and is no longer a prospect)
Also, if a team doesn't have a blue chip asset to give, then the best they can do is to offer two lesser prospects. But I suppose even that isn't good enough?
If you equate Colborne + Percy to a top prospect (not blue chip, which is even a level higher) then Colborne + Percy + Frattin (top 9 in TO) + 1st satisfies your criteria.
If you grade Colborne a 'C' prospect and Percy an 'B' prospect B + C don't equal 'A'.
Rielly or Gardiner from Toronto for me.
Need to get an 'A' player or Prospect for me to want to trade him...it has to be worth losing the incredible advantage to have two excellent goalies in a compressed season.
I don't see how Frattin is at all a desirable asset for us. Doesn't supplant Hansen or Kassian in the bottom six, and nowhere near accomplished enough for the top 6. Would much rather have Blacker or Percy, as they fill a greater need in the prospect pool.
Gillis and Burke trying to get a deal done for Luongo is like oil mixing with water, ain't gonna happen. Short of a miracle, there is no love there, and likely no desire for Gillis to trade him there. They've taken subtle pot shots at eachother via media last couple months, they just can't help themselves.
Edit: Also, Dug Mclean on team 1040 today again reiterating his garbage that Burke will pursue Luongo hard after lockout.
If you grade Colborne a 'C' prospect and Percy an 'B' prospect B + C don't equal 'A'.
Rielly or Gardiner from Toronto for me.
Need to get an 'A' player or Prospect for me to want to trade him...it has to be worth losing the incredible advantage to have two excellent goalies in a compressed season.
Basically it has to 'wow'.
Gardiner isn't a prospect to me. He's established his spot on the team. This Gardiner or bust thing is weird, it's just not going to happen. Expectations are too high.
What do you consider Petrovic, because there have been a few people here willing to do a deal using him as the centre piece?
You're forgetting Luongo wants out, or has mutually agreed to be out. So the "advantage" is a temporary one. Other teams also know this, and will offer accordingly.
Gardiner isn't a prospect to me. He's established his spot on the team. This Gardiner or bust thing is weird, it's just not going to happen. Expectations are too high.
What do you consider Petrovic, because there have been a few people here willing to do a deal using him as the centre piece?
You're forgetting Luongo wants out, or has mutually agreed to be out. So the "advantage" is a temporary one. Other teams also know this, and will offer accordingly.
I'm expecting quality.
If the player is an 'A' then the prospect should be.
Actually, the Leaf fans around here have been pretty good. As a Canuck fan, I don't think the Leafs would trade 3 of their potential centers when that is a weak spot on their team. And quit trying to trade off Raymond - they already have players like him. Unless we could squeeze JVR out of them, I think the focus should be on the #1 pick and prospects.
If we trade Luongo from the team, the overall quality of the team will take a negative impact, a 1st round pick or prospect isn't going to fill the gap needed for us to remain competitive for next year. so if we are going to trade Luongo, we need impact players that can contribute now.
If we trade Luongo from the team, the overall quality of the team will take a negative impact, a 1st round pick or prospect isn't going to fill the gap needed for us to remain competitive for next year. so if we are going to trade Luongo, we need impact players that can contribute now.
If the player is an 'A' then the prospect should be.
Petrovic I see as a 'B' prospect maybe B+.
I'm guess I'm ripe to be disappointed.
I do think your expectations are too high. But then, you're allowed to have them of course. Every VAN fan wants a stellar return.
The way I look at it is this: Gardiner has the potential to become a more valuable player than Dubinsky, and the latter was the best player in the Nash deal, so expecting the same is out of line IMO.
Also, a team that has a precarious draft position like TO or even FLA, isn't going to deal the 1st _and_ an a A level prospect. The risk is just too great that at least one turns into an organizational building block.
From MLB TSN-
'The farewells for Roy Halladay and Chris Bosh could not have been more different but both represented the very same thing: premier athletes in their respective sports who left town because they'd decided their aspirations for a championship could not be met in Toronto.'
Add Sundin to the list. You know Kessel is next if they don't get a real goalie.
What if Reimer doesn't improve? Scrivens has had some really bad plays. What if Kadri doesn't reach his full potential, and JVR doesn't work at C? What if Rielly doesn't have a significant impact for 3 or 4 years? Does Kessel want to wait that long? Does Lupul? T.O.'s track record of playoff misses is getting pretty long.
Also, a team that has a precarious draft position like TO or even FLA, isn't going to deal the 1st _and_ an a A level prospect. The risk is just too great that at least one turns into an organizational building block.
Even if the GM in question has a good chance of being fired if his team misses the playoffs this year?
From MLB TSN-
'The farewells for Roy Halladay and Chris Bosh could not have been more different but both represented the very same thing: premier athletes in their respective sports who left town because they'd decided their aspirations for a championship could not be met in Toronto.'
Add Sundin to the list. You know Kessel is next if they don't get a real goalie.
What if Reimer doesn't improve? Scrivens has had some really bad plays. What if Kadri doesn't reach his full potential, and JVR doesn't work at C? What if Rielly doesn't have a significant impact for 3 or 4 years? Does Kessel want to wait that long? Does Lupul? T.O.'s track record of playoff misses is getting pretty long.
IMO, Burke will crack before Gillis does.
I'd even go beyond that to say 'attracting free agents'. With fewer quality free agents hitting the markets every summer, it's a dog fight to get the few that do.
Players can make the same $$ with any league team, so what quality free agent wants to join a team who hasn't made the playoffs since the last lockout? Every player in the league, including the Leafs players, know what their problem is. If they don't address it, they have zero chance at attracting Getzlaf, Perry or any high quality free agent who hits the market in the future. Zero.
Even if the GM in question has a good chance of being fired if his team misses the playoffs this year?
They could still miss, even with Luongo. That's what Burke is going to be thinking about: What is enough to give up if the end result could still be the same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
*cough* Morgan Reilly..
So Reilly is Blue Chip now? A can't miss? Further, they just drafted him, so they won't be dealing, so it's moot.
They could still miss, even with Luongo. That's what Burke is going to be thinking about: What is enough to give up if the end result could still be the same?
All the pressure's going to be on him to make a good deal though, as it's his team who's on the bubble (if even that). If he does nothing and the Leafs miss out then he's definitely gone anyway.
So would I, but he's not a guarantee. Burke could very well send his best young assets, still miss, and get fired. Then what? He's gutted the franchise for the next guy and he went out a failure. It's not a lock that they make it.
I count these teams as sure bets:
BOS
WSH
NYR
PHI
PIT
And then these teams as better than average bets:
WPG (Yup, I like their chances)
CAR
OTT
FLA
TBay
NJ
TO is in tough to secure one spot in the 6/7/8 slot vs. 6 other teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck
All the pressure's going to be on him to make a good deal though, as it's his team who's on the bubble (if even that). If he does nothing and the Leafs miss out then he's definitely gone anyway.
I agree. If he makes no deal and they miss, he's gone. So yes there is pressure. But it's up to him how much that pressure should dictate his moves. I think it can go either way. Normally, I would say Burke balks at any big price, but this situation may force his hand. 50/50.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem
Bleach: FWIW, Rielly was lights out last night in the Russia game.
I know. I guess I just have a different definition of "Blue Chip". Is Reilly a can't miss star?
TO is in tough to secure one spot in the 6/7/8 slot vs. 6 other teams.
I agree. If he makes no deal and they miss, he's gone. So yes there is pressure. But it's up to him how much that pressure should dictate his moves. I think it can go either way. Normally, I would say Burke balks at any big price, but this situation may force his hand
scary list for Burke, if he wants unchanged he'd better get Luongo. If he his not prepared to pay he might as well pull an Oilers and try for MacKinnon, Barkov or Jones. At least that way he's got something to show for sucking, maybe enough to save his job. He's got the cash to go after Getzlaf and Perry, those two plus MacKinnon/Barkov and they are set up front, then take a run at Luongo after the season assuming we still have him.
Quote:
I know. I guess I just have a different definition of "Blue Chip". Is Reilly a can't miss star?
That's a way higher standard than
most people have. There would be lucky to be 10 of those at any time.
plays. What if Kadri doesn't reach his full potential, and JVR doesn't work at C? What if Rielly doesn't have a significant impact for 3 or 4 years? Does Kessel want to wait that long? Does Lupul? T.O.'s track record of playoff misses is getting pretty long.
