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Old
11-14-2012, 10:35 AM
  #376
Jbcraig1883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Bulmer will probably only make the NHL if he can be a strong defensive player. He just doesn't have the skill to be a top six guy on a good team. I think Colton Gillies is just the perfect comparable. They put up nearly identical stats and have nearly identical builds. Heather from the Aeros called him Gillies 2.0 when I asked about his play, and she's seen both of them more than this entire board put together.

For Bulmer, he needs to develop those offensive AND defensive skills and be as quick a learner as humanly possible. It will be an uphill battle for him.
I beg to differ

Bulmer showed more in his two prospect & NHL camps and his 9 game NHL stint than Gillies ever did. He showed a great N/S game with him causing turnovers, getting under opponents' skins, and getting on the scoreboard. Gillies never did that. I watched a lot of Aeros games when Gillies was there and have seen almost every Aero game with Bulmer.

Other than being a big body and and being able to cause turnovers, I do not see the comparison at all. Bulmer can cycle with the puck. Bulmer has a good shot. Bulmer can catch a pass. Bulmer can agitate. These are all thing Gillies never displayed - at any level. I get why people say it, especially on twitter due to the limit on characters you can use, but I bet Heather, if asked for a more in-depth review, would say the same.

Could Bulmer end up worthless like Gillies? Yes. Is their projected role the same at this point of their careers? Yes. However, are they similar personalities and players on the ice? Not from what I have seen.

Again, this is all my opinion. But, it comes from having seen quite a bit of both players. Not as many as Heather for Gillies but I bet I have seen as much of Bulmer since we have drafted him.

Also, I am not saying he is playing awesome so far this year but I think it is a confidence issue and what squidz mentioned about knowing his role. As far as how he has played on the ice, though, is nothing like Gillies.

I'll see if Heather will stop by to offer her thoughts. Not saying she's wrong or that you're wrong, Jarick. I just disagree and believe the amount of games I have seen them play supports my opinion.


Last edited by Jbcraig1883: 11-14-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old
11-14-2012, 10:46 AM
  #377
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Thanks for the report.

My impression is that Bulmer is overmatched at the AHL level like Gillies was overmatched at the NHL level. Not to the same extent of course.

My guess is Bulmer doesn't have the hockey IQ to quickly adjust to the next level of competition. If he did, he'd have had better numbers in juniors at a younger age. This seems to be pretty common with the "project" type players who have all the tools and put forth the effort but just can't seem to put it together.

Bulmer seems to have a bit more skill than Gillies did but I still think it's an uphill battle for him to be a top nine NHL'er over guys like Brodziak, Clutterbuck, Larsson...even Veilleux. Those guys adapted and scored quicker in juniors.

I'd love to be wrong but I do think he's closer to a Palmieri or Gillies fringe type than an every day third liner in the NHL.

And that's also what's got me a bit worried about Dumba...

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11-14-2012, 11:05 AM
  #378
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The difference between Gillies and Bulmer?

With Gillies, he COULD have developed into a solid bottom six forward, but we screwed that up by rushing him to the NHL and not giving him the proper development time in the juniors and AHL.

With Bulmer, he has an extra year of juniors compared to Gillies, and is slowly being brought through the AHL.

That is exactly what needs to happen if Bulmer wants to devleop into an agitating bottom six forward. I don't think many of us REALLY expected him to be a top six forward, but if he can be a physical, agitating staple third liner, I will be happy to have spent that 2nd round pick on him.

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11-14-2012, 11:05 AM
  #379
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I don't really know that their stats are as comparable as people make out either. The seasons being compared are the first year after being drafted. Gillies had a 24-23-47 stat line in 58 games and Bulmer had 18-31-49 in 57 games. Despite the point totals, they're rather different in composition with goals making up over half of Gillies' points but only a hair over a third of Bulmer's.

More important than just the difference in composition is looking at their respective roles on their teams. Gillies put up 47 points which was good for second on his team and 24 goals which led the team. Judging from what I've seen and heard, he was in a top line role on a bad team. In that position he was given the best opportunities to perform, and he didn't really. Bulmer was on a much better team, but also played in a second/third line role as an agitator. He put up a team worst -12, but distributed the puck better than Gillies ever did.

Bulmer also had the advantage of another WHL season while Gillies was thrown dumbfounded into the NHL. In that extra year, he put up 34 goals and 28 assists on a mediocre team. In fact, over his shorter WHL career (only 178gp compared to Gillies' 195) he put up almost as many assists (86) as Gillies put up total points (91).

Any other issues aside, I think the only way Bulmer's stats are similar to Gillies is if you look only at a single year's point totals. Looking at the year before, Bulmer put up 33% more points (same goal total, 10 more assists) than Gillies. If you look at time afterward there isn't a sufficient sample to compare to.

/one extra note, WHL playoff stats Bulmer 25gp 8-8-16, Gillies 10gp 0-0-0

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11-14-2012, 11:14 AM
  #380
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Clutterbuck's OHL stats aren't really a fair comparison for anyone. Sure he put up 54 assists, but he played on a line with Tavares who scored 72 goals that year. Dale Mitchell (35 points in 40 ECHL games) managed to score 80 points on that team.

Actually out of curiosity I glanced quickly through a few other teams with players like that (Tavares, Crosby, Stamkos) and it seems like Clutterbuck is the only guy that managed to make an NHL career out of it. I guess all the other guys still get to tell their kids about how they played juniors with these NHL stars.

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11-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #381
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Here are Heather's thoughts via Twitter:

"I see. Yeah, talking more big picture outlook than details of his game. I assume that's bottom line when people ask me abt him. He may do some things better/different, but the end result is general ineffectiveness.Though unlike Gillies, he doesn't seem to be as much of a penalty liability. More controlled game on the physical side."

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11-14-2012, 12:30 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
The difference between Gillies and Bulmer?

With Gillies, he COULD have developed into a solid bottom six forward, but we screwed that up by rushing him to the NHL and not giving him the proper development time in the juniors and AHL.

With Bulmer, he has an extra year of juniors compared to Gillies, and is slowly being brought through the AHL.

That is exactly what needs to happen if Bulmer wants to devleop into an agitating bottom six forward. I don't think many of us REALLY expected him to be a top six forward, but if he can be a physical, agitating staple third liner, I will be happy to have spent that 2nd round pick on him.

Not arguing your point at all. A lot of our prospects were not put into good environments to develop.

Just wanted to say that I do not believe another year of juniors or anything would have made the outcome for Gillies any better. I simply believe he has very little hockey awareness and some of the worst hands I have seen.

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11-14-2012, 12:39 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbcraig1883 View Post
Not arguing your point at all. A lot of our prospects were not put into good environments to develop.

Just wanted to say that I do not believe another year of juniors or anything would have made the outcome for Gillies any better. I simply believe he has very little hockey awareness and some of the worst hands I have seen.
A more physical Antti Miettinen, then? Perfect 1st line winger for Wild!

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:42 PM
  #384
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Joking aside, Miettinen had a knack for getting open and was competent on the cycle. Decent on the PP. I'm amazed he's not playing this year. He'd be a good fit in Europe I'd think. Less of a speed game, more of a cycling and offensive game.

Oh and agreed 100% on Gillies. He had no head for the game and complete stone hands. Far more likely to turn the puck over than control a pass and make a shot. I just don't see how a scout could watch him and think "oh that's a first round talent right there."

Bulmer seems to have better hands and awareness, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't/won't have the skill to be a top six player in the NHL. If he develops his defensive play and his physical game, plus his agitating abilities, he'd be able to play on the third/fourth line. I think his ceiling is a lot closer to Clutterbuck than Burrows.

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11-14-2012, 12:45 PM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Joking aside, Miettinen had a knack for getting open and was competent on the cycle. Decent on the PP. I'm amazed he's not playing this year. He'd be a good fit in Europe I'd think. Less of a speed game, more of a cycling and offensive game.
He is playing in FEL, team HPK. Has played one game and scored in the shootout if I remember correctly.

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11-14-2012, 01:11 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
He is playing in FEL, team HPK. Has played one game and scored in the shootout if I remember correctly.
Trivia: HPK is much easier to pronounce than "Hämeenlinnan Pallokerho".

I agree with Jarick on Miettinen by the way. He always was and is one of the players I cheered for. He's not overly flashy, but not incompetent either. The problem with him always was his shot, really. He could rush up and down the ice, he was good on both fore-and backcheck and as you said, he had excellent positioning on the offensive end, allowing Koivu to feed him those prime scoring opportunities, which he... missed. That's why he's, well, if not a laughing stock but then at least very under-appreciated instead of a potential 30/30 TWF.

Imagine the potential of a Koivu-Miettinen combo if he had a competitive shot. Add Parise, one of the best if not the best forechecker in the NHL and we'd be in business. Or how about putting him on the 3rd line RW instead of Clutterbuck? Bouchard to the LW and Brodziak centering those two, and I'd honestly thing we'd have a very balanced secondary-scoring, two-way line.

Meh. Dreams are dreams. The reality is, we won't see Miettinen again in the Wild jersey and that is a shame, but we wouldn't have space for him. He'd need 2nd or at very least 3rd line minutes, as he isn't really as effective as required for a 4th line role (as seen in Winnipeg).

As for Bulmer, who knows. He could still develop into a top 6 power forward, but that's not very likely. Besides, the guy can play in 3rd line better. If he can pot a few in, even better. It's not like bottom lines are not allowed to score. We'll see what becomes of him.

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:25 PM
  #387
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Based off the way these guys have played so far and the way the lockout situation is looking, I couldn't help but look ahead to next year. I would be fully comfortable with Coyle, Zucker, Brodin, and Granlund (obviously) in the Wild lineup on a nightly basis a year from now. As of right now Larsson and Bulmer don't look like as NHL ready as many had expected and I think more AHL would do nothing but benefit their development.

Here's how I think they could fit in.

Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Setoguchi-Granlund-Coyle
Zucker-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Powe-Konopka-Mitchell

Suter-Spurgeon
Scandella-Brodin
Gilbert-Stoner/Falk

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:52 PM
  #388
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I'd switch Zucker and Coyle.

Eventually Coyle will replace Setoguchi/Heatley's spot in the top-6, but now I think he's more suited for a physical checking role.

Zucker's pure offense.

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11-14-2012, 04:58 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
I'd switch Zucker and Coyle.

Eventually Coyle will replace Setoguchi/Heatley's spot in the top-6, but now I think he's more suited for a physical checking role.

Zucker's pure offense.
That'd make the 2nd line a bit too soft in my opinion.

Switching Heatley and Setoguchi might be one solution.

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11-14-2012, 05:21 PM
  #390
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You have a point.

I don't like Granlund and Coyle on the same line. Although they can both score, neither of them are really goal-scorers. Ideally, I'd want to see a Zucker/Granlund/? or Zucker/Coyle/? line.

One upside of having a Setoguchi/Granlund/Coyle line would be Setoguchi's numbers - they would probably skyrocket. Hello trade-bait.

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11-14-2012, 05:26 PM
  #391
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Quote:
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That'd make the 2nd line a bit too soft in my opinion.
This was my rationale, Zucker definitely has the ability to play top 6 next year though.

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11-14-2012, 05:37 PM
  #392
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Will get to see Matt Dumba play in 3.5 hours! Excited!

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11-14-2012, 05:39 PM
  #393
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will be nice to have a detailed first hand report.

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11-14-2012, 05:48 PM
  #394
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2013-14
Parise - Koivu - Coyle

Sound all-around game to match up against opposing team's #1's. All forecheck extremely well and have a very sound possession game in the offensive zone. Pretty much a grind it out and go to the dirty area's type of line but with more high end skill to supplement it.

Setoguchi - Granlund - Heatley

Granlund was made to play with Heatley. Dany has a very good feel on how to get to the soft areas of the ice and Granlund is the rare breed of player who has a knack for finding players in that type of position. Seto adds some speed to an otherwise average skating line to get in on the forecheck, although, he's not the best fit here and is mostly just at that spot until Zucker passes him up (which I don't think will take long).

Zucker - Brodziak - Clutterbuck

This assumes Clutter returns, he could be a somewhat valuable asset in a trade next offseason. Higher end skating third line that will not be afraid to throw bodies around. Very high character all around with all having the ability to chip in offensively as well.

Mitchell - Powe - Kenopka

Standard 4th line abilities in the newer age NHL. They all can play a pretty regular shift and all have different valuable aspects to their games that they provide.

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11-14-2012, 06:32 PM
  #395
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will be nice to have a detailed first hand report.
I'll write up something nice

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Old
11-14-2012, 08:18 PM
  #396
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Speaking of Dumba, sounds like Brent Sutter lost patience and fired the Rebels head coach.

He's now doing both GM and head coaching jobs.

EDIT: http://www.reddeerrebels.com/article...-major-changes

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11-14-2012, 08:20 PM
  #397
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2013-14
Parise - Koivu - Coyle

Sound all-around game to match up against opposing team's #1's. All forecheck extremely well and have a very sound possession game in the offensive zone. Pretty much a grind it out and go to the dirty area's type of line but with more high end skill to supplement it.

Setoguchi - Granlund - Heatley

Granlund was made to play with Heatley. Dany has a very good feel on how to get to the soft areas of the ice and Granlund is the rare breed of player who has a knack for finding players in that type of position. Seto adds some speed to an otherwise average skating line to get in on the forecheck, although, he's not the best fit here and is mostly just at that spot until Zucker passes him up (which I don't think will take long).

Zucker - Brodziak - Clutterbuck

This assumes Clutter returns, he could be a somewhat valuable asset in a trade next offseason. Higher end skating third line that will not be afraid to throw bodies around. Very high character all around with all having the ability to chip in offensively as well.

Mitchell - Powe - Kenopka

Standard 4th line abilities in the newer age NHL. They all can play a pretty regular shift and all have different valuable aspects to their games that they provide.
Right on.

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11-14-2012, 09:32 PM
  #398
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Hate Setoguchi and Heatley together.

Call me odd, but I rather trade Clutterbuck next off-seaon.

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11-14-2012, 11:18 PM
  #399
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4 points (1 goal, 3 assists) for Bussieres in a 7-1 win tonight.

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11-14-2012, 11:48 PM
  #400
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Team WHL won 1-0 in shootout. (3-0)

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