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Old
11-01-2012, 02:11 AM
  #126
HockeyFan100
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Wow, I totally forgot Gordie Howe... I'd put him behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

I personally think that Brett Hull is better than Bobby Hull. Brett's a pure goal scorer. Bobby would come close. It's hard to label older players because the game changed so much. Would he be able to compete with guys like Malkin, or Stamkos? yes, but possibly not.

Bourque is ahead of Orr because... well, it's obvious. I understand that a lot of offensive d-men look up to Orr than anyone else, but his career got shortened due to injuries it's a bit hard to judge. Bourque has the most goals for any defenseman. To me, he had more heart than Orr, and was better defensivley.

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Old
11-01-2012, 05:29 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Wow, I totally forgot Gordie Howe... I'd put him behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

I personally think that Brett Hull is better than Bobby Hull. Brett's a pure goal scorer. Bobby would come close. It's hard to label older players because the game changed so much. Would he be able to compete with guys like Malkin, or Stamkos? yes, but possibly not.

Bourque is ahead of Orr because... well, it's obvious. I understand that a lot of offensive d-men look up to Orr than anyone else, but his career got shortened due to injuries it's a bit hard to judge. Bourque has the most goals for any defenseman. To me, he had more heart than Orr, and was better defensivley.
i know it's the word of a guy alking about his dad, but brett hull has said his dad could skate faster and shoot harder than him when he was 25 and his dad was in his 50s. now even taking that with a grain of salt, the argument that old timers wouldn't be able to keep up with today's (or 90s) players falls apart when you look at brett hull. wasn't fast, wasn't strong, just scored 40 goals in his 30s due to great timing, on-ice intelligence, and a great shot. everything we know tells us that bobby was smarter, had a better shot, and had way more physical gifts (strength, speed, agility, and especially conditioning).

i won't even get into bourque vs. orr.

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Old
11-02-2012, 06:41 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 View Post
Bourque is ahead of Orr because... well, it's obvious. I understand that a lot of offensive d-men look up to Orr than anyone else, but his career got shortened due to injuries it's a bit hard to judge. Bourque has the most goals for any defenseman. To me, he had more heart than Orr, and was better defensivley.
You seem to believe that Orr was the Coffey of his era. Problem with that is that Orr was better at everything than Coffey, often by a quite wide margin. What he might have lacked defensively compared to Bourque, which was'nt much, he more than made up for with his offense.

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11-02-2012, 09:08 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Would you say that about the posters in the History section? Many on here have a very broad yet extensive grasp of the history of the NHL.

Messier dragged a star-studded New York team down in his second tenure with them and his 2 Hart trophies are largely contested among the History section posters. His 6 Stanley Cups are the sole reason for his overrating position among the all-time best. Messier is not even among the top 10 all-time two-way forwards (an attribute that is vastly overrating him) while Jagr is easily a top 5 all-time offensive forward/ player. Give Jagr better talent in those Lemieux-less teams he led and I'm sure he would have won 1 or 2 Cups with him as Conn Smythe winner. Messier played most of his career with sure-shot Hall of Fame talent; Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey, Leetch, Fuhr, not to mention great role players like Tikkanen, Richter, Graves...

Give Jagr a better defense in 1998-99, 1999-00 and 2005-08 for instance and he would have made his spot in the top 10 be a slam dunk. Yes I know this is pure speculation but Jagr is a victim of playing on some mediocre defensive teams while Messier was fortunate enough to play on so many great teams. It's no surpise that the top 10 scorers in playoffs history feature Messier, Gretzky, Kurri, Anderson and Coffey all of which played on the same team. The Dead Puck Era was all about defense and the Penguins lacked it which made it nearly impossible for them to contend with such powerhouses as the Devils, Flyers, Stars, Red Wings and Avalanche. Jagr did his part by scoring in bunches and carrying those teams on his back while also stepping up his forechecking game in the playoffs (contrary to popular belief that he was a cherrypicker).

... and before you star mentioning the talent that Pittsburgh had in the early 90's, don't forget that Jagr wasn't in his prime yet. A prime Jagr never had half the All-Star, Hall of Fame support that the other players in the top 10 had.

Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Morenz, Beliveau, Richard were all surrounded with tremendous talent during their primes. I'm not going to argue that given the circumstances that Jagr could have supplanted any of those players from the top 10 but at least the argument could have been more interesting.
You've basically just downplayed or ignored all the factors that made Messier great while overrating or inventing reasons why Jagr was better than him.

An argument can be made that Jagr was better (I wouldn't agree with it) but at least [i]make[i/] the argument.

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Old
11-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post
Besides, complaining he didn't accomplish enough after 28 while comparing him to Orr is just strange - Orr didn't accomplish anything after that age while Gretzky still won more scoring titles and led the league in assists many more times. He also garnered several more all-star selections.
Right.

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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
I think Orr probably deserved the Hart in '74, as Espo's overall game had really gone downhill at that point. Still a tremendous season by Espo, esp. at that age. The '69 season is interesting, given that Espo basically doubled Orr's point total and had ~75% higher PPG that season. What changed after that which allowed Orr to score so many more points, without it changing Espo's production more substantially?

People do seem to give a lot of extra credit for lost production to players affected by injuries. I think in many, if not most cases, the player could have played a slightly less intense game, probably had a bit lower peak and bit longer career, but not sure how much more career value (if any) they would have added by doing so. Injuries are an unfortunate part of the game, but it does a disservice to those players that properly paced themselves when possible to avoid excessive injury, to project much longer careers at the same level for players who played a more aggressive style which often resulted in injury.
For the first paragraph, I really think it was just age and maturity with Orr. By 1970 he was otherworldly. He was still 20 years old in 1968-'69 so he hadn't quite burst out. In 1974 the writers favoured Esposito's 68 goal 145 point season for the Hart. Orr had 122 points. I really don't know why Espo won the Hart in 1974 when he and Orr had a statistical season similar to 1971 and Orr won it. Bernie Parent, not Orr, was 2nd in Hart voting as well. We can't say Orr wasn't revered or adored by the media either so I really don't know why 1974 is singled out. Not that Esposito didn't have a marvelous season either.

As for the other paragraph you have a point. Orr could have done different things to prolong his career. Is he as good as he ends up being in, say, 1971 or 1971? Who knows. But it was more of a reckless style with Orr too. It has been often said of him that he went "where angels feared to tread". The corners, or carrying the puck end to end and being a target. Even the 1976 Canada Cup. That really put a dagger on his career even if it was on the decline as it was. Maybe Orr plays well into the 1980s if he learns to pace himself better. Or.............maybe he's Sergei Fedorov. Yes, Fedorov had a long career but took many years off in the regular season which hurts him on an all-time ranking. Could we have seen a better Fedorov? I think so. But which version is better, the one who paces himself or the one who goes full throttle and is done by 28?

To me it is just another example of how hockey sense is the most important quality in the NHL. Gretzky played 20 seasons and never took his foot off the pedal. He'd have a 6 point game and then gun for 7 the next one. But he also knew he wasn't a big man and tried not to take a physical toll on his body. We all know Orr had hockey sense, but I just think there are times when he ignored it when it might have saved him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
The problem is that I'm not looking at resumes, I'm looking at players.

When well known hockey people are asked who the best player was they ever saw, no one ever says, "Howe, because he was great for so long." Or Orr was great, but he didn't play long enough." They just tell you the player (or players) they thought were the best. That's how I look at this. There is no set criteria. If its going to be about best career, fine, but that's not stated criteria currently. (or is it?)
But even then, let's look at the big 4 here. Take their best seasons in NHL history. Howe in 1952 or 1953. Lemieux anywhere from 1989 to 1993. Orr would probably be 1971 or 1972. Gretzky in 1985 or 1986. Let's just take Orr and Gretzky for a second and compare them. Forget about the second best peer in the NHL at that time and how much further they were away from them. Just look at their best seasons. Orr in 1971 and Gretzky in 1986. If you want to say Orr was equal I can live with that. But personally I don't see how Orr can surpass the Great One at his absolute peak either. We're talking about a guy who had 163 assists in a season. Can you say with absolute confidence that the best we saw of Orr was superior to the best we saw of Gretzky?

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Old
11-02-2012, 05:38 PM
  #131
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Right.



For the first paragraph, I really think it was just age and maturity with Orr. By 1970 he was otherworldly. He was still 20 years old in 1968-'69 so he hadn't quite burst out. In 1974 the writers favoured Esposito's 68 goal 145 point season for the Hart. Orr had 122 points. I really don't know why Espo won the Hart in 1974 when he and Orr had a statistical season similar to 1971 and Orr won it. Bernie Parent, not Orr, was 2nd in Hart voting as well. We can't say Orr wasn't revered or adored by the media either so I really don't know why 1974 is singled out. Not that Esposito didn't have a marvelous season either.

As for the other paragraph you have a point. Orr could have done different things to prolong his career. Is he as good as he ends up being in, say, 1971 or 1971? Who knows. But it was more of a reckless style with Orr too. It has been often said of him that he went "where angels feared to tread". The corners, or carrying the puck end to end and being a target. Even the 1976 Canada Cup. That really put a dagger on his career even if it was on the decline as it was. Maybe Orr plays well into the 1980s if he learns to pace himself better. Or.............maybe he's Sergei Fedorov. Yes, Fedorov had a long career but took many years off in the regular season which hurts him on an all-time ranking. Could we have seen a better Fedorov? I think so. But which version is better, the one who paces himself or the one who goes full throttle and is done by 28?

To me it is just another example of how hockey sense is the most important quality in the NHL. Gretzky played 20 seasons and never took his foot off the pedal. He'd have a 6 point game and then gun for 7 the next one. But he also knew he wasn't a big man and tried not to take a physical toll on his body. We all know Orr had hockey sense, but I just think there are times when he ignored it when it might have saved him.



But even then, let's look at the big 4 here. Take their best seasons in NHL history. Howe in 1952 or 1953. Lemieux anywhere from 1989 to 1993. Orr would probably be 1971 or 1972. Gretzky in 1985 or 1986. Let's just take Orr and Gretzky for a second and compare them. Forget about the second best peer in the NHL at that time and how much further they were away from them. Just look at their best seasons. Orr in 1971 and Gretzky in 1986. If you want to say Orr was equal I can live with that. But personally I don't see how Orr can surpass the Great One at his absolute peak either. We're talking about a guy who had 163 assists in a season. Can you say with absolute confidence that the best we saw of Orr was superior to the best we saw of Gretzky?
No, I don't say anything with absolute confidence.

But from what I saw, I think Orr was the better hockey player, which includes playing at both ends of the ice, with or without the puck. Orr also had a physical element to his game, he hit and got hit and he took care of himself.

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Old
11-04-2012, 09:09 PM
  #132
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It's too hard of a question, because all you do is you offend people by leaving <insert player's name here> off the list and include <insert players name>

So were back to a back and forth argument on who's better, Bobby Or(r) Wayne, eh?

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Old
11-05-2012, 04:22 AM
  #133
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Really hard to include Goalies but I'm gonna try:

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemiuex
4. Howe
5. Beliveau
6. Hull
7. Harvey
8. Hasek
9. Shore
10. Roy

Too much thought went into that...

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:26 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bexlyspeed View Post
any reason nobody has denis potvin in their top 10?

he had a solid 15 year career, first defenceman to 1000 points, 3 norris trophies, and captain of 4 stanley cup winning teams. retired leading all defensemen in points, goals & assists

not as flashy as orr, but i think he was better than ray borque. any thoughts?
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
Orr
Gretzky
Howe
Lemieux
Hull
Richard
Shore
Potvin
Apps
Beliveau
I have him in mine, he could control a game by sheer force of will

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:31 PM
  #135
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1. Bobby Orr - Boston Bruins (Chicago Blackhawks)

While defensemen in previous eras had carried the puck (Doug Harvey comes to mind), Orr revitalized this for the modern era. Capable of doing it all, you just can't ignore and Art Ross by a defenseman and the bevy of Norris trophies all the while excelling at all aspects of his position. He's become the standard against which others are measured.

2.Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton Oilers (Los Angeles Kings, St. Louis Blues, New York Rangers)

CBC has been showing vintage games of late and there was one with Gretzky vs. the early 80s Leafs. You simply wouldn't have known he was playing for part of it, no end ot end rushes, no multiple-points early on...then it happened. Gretzky found a seam and a goal was scored. Maybe not by himself but it went in. Over and over. Try to two-man him? He'll just flip the puck away and get it along the boards. Try to defend him? He'll just pass it. Try to clog the crease? He'll just go to the office. Just incredible intelligence, timing and a gentleman off the ice as well.

3.Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh Penguins

I'll admit I was a Mario guy, if only because he was from Montreal. Hands of silk on a bull's body. He could just overpower you and then blast it past an unsuspecting goalie. Endless back issues, cancer, off-ice scandal, endless comparisons to Gretzky (who helped him mature at the 87 Canada Cup) just incredible. You wonder if he'd been completely healthy if he could have cracked 200+ points.

4. Raymond Bourque - Boston Bruins (Colorado Avalanche)

I'll concede to those that prefer Eddie Shore or Nicklas Lidstrom in this spot. To me, Ray was a stocky dynamo. I'll never forget that game where he drilled 19 (!) shots on Ron Tugnutt in the legendary game. Great center of gravity on him, you were never, ever going to knock him off the puck. 5-10 shots on the powerplay, endless penalty killing, even-strength calmness and a fair amount of stickwork when he had to. Ray, I miss ya. And this is from a former Habs fan that was burned by you more than once!

5. Patrick Roy - Montreal Canadiens (Colorado Avalanche)

Again, I'll concede to Hasek the revolutionizing of the position and the extreme dominance.
To me though, Roy was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in nets. I remember one game when the New Jersey Devils just drilled him, for six goals I think (this was a while ago, memory fades but maybe Hockey Reference can confirm) and just looked totally ordinary. Then the playoffs came and it was like he was a different man. Save after save after save after save, was just unreal. More than that I'll remember his cockiness...after being pelted with plastic rats against Florida, saying: "No more rats!" and shutting the door on them. Or winking at Tomas Sandstrom. Sometimes it backfired...Statue of Liberty save anyone? I'd want no one else for an NHL playoff game on the line.

6. Sergei Makarov - CSKA - CCCP (Calgary Flames, San Jose Sharks, Dallas Stars)

Are there better wingers at the NHL level? Sure. Are there better forwards? Sure. Heck, you could probably find better players but Makarov was an absolute force at the International level. Whether it's leading CSKA year after year or his near-perpetural dominance of World Championships or other events. He was there, scoring and passing, shifty as an eel and causing headaches for defenses the world over. He even managed to change the rules of Calder voting by winning it in his 30s, but he was never fully appreciated here in North America. An absolute shame that he isn't in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

7. Mark Messier - Edmonton Oilers (New York Rangers, Vancouver Canucks)

Moose was his nickname and just about what he was on the ice. It's easier to remember the "gentler" Messier that played for the Rangers or the declining and ineffective Messier of the Canucks, and that's fair. The Messier that comes to mind here is the vicious, animalistic one of the Oilers. He'd just as soon elbow you, fight you, slash you, score on you, pass the puck and just win games or at least give you the right support. Probably would be suspended for whole seasons in today's NHL but dear lord the man was a pleasure to watch and must have been an absolute beast to play against.

8. Jari Kurri - Jokerit (Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, New York Rangers, Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Colorado Avalanche)

Teemu's surpassed his goal totals and I'll admit has probably passed him in the Finnish elite but Jari sure did do it all out there. Sure, you can say he rode shotgun on Wayne's side but they were almost symbiotic out there. Kurri was no slouch defensively either, more than capable of backchecking or at the very least being responsible in his own end (not that he was there much with 99...). You can make the case he should have retired instead of prolonging his career in Anaheim or Colorado but...you can't stop a man from playing the game he loves.

9. Syl Apps - Toronto Maple Leafs

Conn Smythe famously said no one called "Sylvanus Apps" was ever going to make a living of it in the NHL. Apps proved him wrong, the gentle pivot dominating for the Leafs and even extending his resumé to pole vaulting at the 1936 Olympics (with bamboo poles into a sand pit, no less) and was a complete gentleman as well. Legend tells us he went to Smythe with a cheque for $1,000 since he was injured and didn't feel he'd given $6,000 worth to the Leafs. Smythe was aghast and rebuffed him. Classy and his granddaughter wears his #10 for our (Canada) national team.

10. Jean Bélieveau - Montreal Canadiens

Pure class. The Canadiens legend probably doesn't have an enemy on this planet. His phone number is still listed (He's said on this topic that some players are unlisted as if they were afraid of the fans, he'd gladly take a call now and then) and an ambassador for the Canadiens and the NHL as a whole. Smooth as silk on the ice as a pivot, probably obscured by playing for a dynasty-level team but never lost his humanity. Le Gros Bill never disappointed on or off the ice. All while winning two Art Ross with a fair amount of penalties...

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:40 PM
  #136
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No Gordie Howe at all? Interesting list though.

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11-13-2012, 02:46 PM
  #137
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After the Big 4, the order is highly debatable.

1. Bobby Orr, D
2. Wayne Gretzky, C
3. Gordie Howe, RW
4. Mario Lemieux, C
-------------------
5. Doug Harvey, D
6. Jean Beliveau, C
7. Eddie Shore, D
8. Raymond Bourque, D
9. Bobby Hull, LW
10. Denis Potvin, D


Last edited by Hawkman: 11-13-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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11-14-2012, 12:16 AM
  #138
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I realize this topic is about all players, but I don't think this post is worthy of a new topic and several of the centers on this list could be considered top ten players of all time. I highlighted the centers I consider top ten players of all time. Are these the top ten centers of all time?

Quote:
1. Wayne Gretzky, 100
2. Mario Lemieux, 89
3. Jean Béliveau, 74

4. Mark Messier, 68
5. Phil Esposito, 39
6. Steve Yzerman, 36
7. Bryan Trottier, 34
8. Joe Sakic, 31
9. Stan Mikita, 16
10. Howie Morenz, 12

Others receiving votes: Igor Larionov, 11; Bobby Clarke, 10; Peter Forsberg, 7; Peter Stastny, 5; Marcel Dionne, 4; Ron Francis, 4; Bill Cowley, 3; Sidney Crosby, 1; Pat LaFontaine, 1; Henri Richard, 1; Adam Oates, 1.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...2690--nhl.html

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:07 AM
  #139
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
I realize this topic is about all players, but I don't think this post is worthy of a new topic and several of the centers on this list could be considered top ten players of all time. I highlighted the centers I consider top ten players of all time. Are these the top ten centers of all time?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...2690--nhl.html
I think Clarke would definitely be on my top 10, but the players listed arent' bad. I am not ok with the order though...most notably where Morenz and Mikita fall (especially Morenz...I don't really see how he can possibly be any lower than 4th).

Franks Nighbor and Boucher would probably be my first two HM's who weren't listed at all. A few other guys who should be ahead of a lot of the "others receiving votes" are Milt Schmidt, Syl Apps, and Newsy Lalonde.


Larionov essentially finished 11th which is a lot higher than I would have him, but there's always a lot of leeway with the Soviet players.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:14 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
After the Big 4, the order is highly debatable.

1. Bobby Orr, D
2. Wayne Gretzky, C
3. Gordie Howe, RW
4. Mario Lemieux, C
-------------------
5. Doug Harvey, D
6. Jean Beliveau, C
7. Eddie Shore, D
8. Raymond Bourque, D
9. Bobby Hull, LW
10. Denis Potvin, D
Interesting order considering your avatar.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:28 PM
  #141
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Many don't want to include Jagr in their top 10 but I think it's quite mind boggling that people would place Messier ahead of Jagr and put him in the top 10 (even as high as 7).

Jagr had his detractors but at his very best he dominated the game like very few have over the course of the entire history of the NHL.

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11-14-2012, 11:30 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I think Clarke would definitely be on my top 10, but the players listed arent' bad. I am not ok with the order though...most notably where Morenz and Mikita fall (especially Morenz...I don't really see how he can possibly be any lower than 4th).

Franks Nighbor and Boucher would probably be my first two HM's who weren't listed at all. A few other guys who should be ahead of a lot of the "others receiving votes" are Milt Schmidt, Syl Apps, and Newsy Lalonde.


Larionov essentially finished 11th which is a lot higher than I would have him, but there's always a lot of leeway with the Soviet players.
the top centers of all time is going to be very interesting but Morenz 4th?

I realize that he was voted the best player of the 1st half of the century but that one milestone is getting him way too many props IMO.

Looking at some of the other guys accomplishments compared to Howie's and he doesn't stack up that high IMO.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:41 PM
  #143
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
the top centers of all time is going to be very interesting but Morenz 4th?

I realize that he was voted the best player of the 1st half of the century but that one milestone is getting him way too many props IMO.

Looking at some of the other guys accomplishments compared to Howie's and he doesn't stack up that high IMO.
- 3 Hart wins and one runner-up
- 1 Retro Conn Smythe
- AS Record: 4 1st Team, 2 2nd Team (includes both Official and Unofficial teams since there were no AS Teams for part of his career)
- 2 Art Ross, 5x Top 3 in points, 7x Top 5, 10x Top 10


Who doesn't that stack up to?

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:59 PM
  #144
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In order:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Hull
Harvey
Beliveau
Shore
Messier

I can't really decide between Messier and Bourque but I put down Mess.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:23 AM
  #145
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1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Hull
5. Tretiak
6. Richard
7. Jagr
8. Stastny
9. Kharlamov
10. Bourque

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:06 AM
  #146
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I was actually thinking yesterday about how my list has change over the year:

2012:
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Gordie Howe
3. Bobby Orr
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Jean Beliveau
6. Bobby Hull
7. Doug Harvey
8. Dominik Hasek
9. Eddie Shore
10. Maurice Richard

2008:
1. Bobby Orr
2. Gordie Howe
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Jean Beliveau
6. Maurice Richard
7. Doug Harvey
8. Eddie Shore
9. Jacques Plante
10. Bobby Hull

And although I'm fairly certain of my top-4 (I don't think the order will change anytime soon), the #5 spot is still up for grab by Beliveau, Hull or Harvey, while I can see someone like Hasek or Richard getting pushed out of the Top-10 by one of Ray Bourque or Patrick Roy (Lidstrom, Morenz, Mikita?). Add Jacques Plante to the list, and I am very confident on who would be on my top-16 All-Time list. The order is another debate though!

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:44 AM
  #147
tommygunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Hull
5. Tretiak
6. Richard
7. Jagr
8. Stastny
9. Kharlamov
10. Bourque
No Howe?

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:49 AM
  #148
Peter25
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1. Mikhailov
2. Fetisov
3. Gretzky
4. Kharlamov
5. Lemieux
6. Makarov
7. Firsov
8. Petrov
9. Maltsev
10. Kasatonov

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #149
Ynnek
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1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Howe
5. Jagr
6. Kharlamov
7. Belliveau
8. Richard
9. Hull
10. Esposito

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:58 AM
  #150
Ynnek
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I wasn't around to watch hockey back in the day but how many NHL goals could Bobby Hull have got had he stayed in the NHL? Was looking at his stats and he still kept scoring at a pretty good pace in the WHA so how would those stats translate to NHL?

I know nothing of that league from back then. Thanks to any who reply.

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