HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Off-season Madness the 3rd: Jeffrey Loria taketh and Jeffrey Loria giveth away

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2012, 11:42 PM
  #976
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
of the top 30 hitters in baseball, 7 are CFs...that's more than any single position

I don't buy into this 'down the middle' stereotype you have, it doesn't hold water
Top 30 hitters in baseball?

Where is this magical list?

Oh wait I know, you go to mlb.com and click-sort the column that says ".AVG"

EDIT: WOW... that is actually what you did...

McCutchen
Trout
Hunter (who btw hasn't played CF regularly in 2 years)
Jay
Rios
Jackson
Fowler

The only players from that list who I would put in the "top 30 hitters" in the mlb would be McCutchen and Trout.

topched is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:43 PM
  #977
Sokil
Ukraine Specialitsky
 
Sokil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 6,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
Top 30 hitters in baseball?

Where is this magical list?

Oh wait I know, you go to mlb.com and click-sort the column that says ".AVG"
AVG, hits, runs, OBP...want more categories where the position leads?

Were you expecting some contrived WAR-type stat?

Sokil is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:43 PM
  #978
Lucbourdon
Kefka cheers for Van
 
Lucbourdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,093
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
What's the hockey equivalent of this trade? Everyone's talking about it, but I don't know the players so I can't really 100% understand the excitement.
It's been posted many times in this thread, gotta find it.

Lucbourdon is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:47 PM
  #979
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Pagan and Victorino will likely get some good money and they will most likely sign to play CF.

I think Melky Cabrera makes a lot of sense for the Jays. Maybe the PED's really helped him but its no sure thing he was using it in 2011. Had some decent years with the Yankees too as a pretty young player. I'd take a gamble on him at a reasonable 1 year deal. I doubt teams are lining up to give him multiple years + good money -- most likely will settle for a 1 year deal and try to re-establish value.
really he didn't.

From 2006 to 2010, his average season was 142 games (528 PAs) hitting .267/.329/.709 with 8 homers and a WAR hovering around 0

With the Yankees he was basically a replacement level player thrust into regular duty because they didnt have anything better to offer at the time.

if he wants a cheap 1-year to prove that his 11 and 12 stats weren't a fluke, fine. But he doesn't have any track record prior to 2011 that says he's worth full-time starter money.

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:48 PM
  #980
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
AVG, hits, runs...want more categories where the position leads?

Were you expecting some contrived WAR-type stat?
No just a little bit of observation and logic.

topched is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:48 PM
  #981
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
of the top 30 hitters in baseball, 7 are CFs...that's more than any single position

I don't buy into this 'down the middle' stereotype you have, it doesn't hold water
It usually holds true but yeah, a few CF had some pretty big years.

Though if you are counting guys like Hamilton/Cespedes/Carlos Gonzalez, that's skewing it. Those guys aren't really CF. Dexter Fowler is pretty bad defensively too. Rios is a RF. Only real legit CF out of that group is Trout/McCutchen/Jackson.

With up the middle guys, you mostly need defensive guys because they will provide more than enough value for you if they have an average with plus defense up the middle. If they offer you a plus bat, you have yourself an all-star and those guys are tough to find.


Last edited by Nasty Nazem: 11-14-2012 at 11:55 PM.
Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:49 PM
  #982
Badger Mayhew
Registered User
 
Badger Mayhew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,633
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
It's been posted many times in this thread, gotta find it.
Found this

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7#post55760507

No thanks to you.

Badger Mayhew is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:49 PM
  #983
Sokil
Ukraine Specialitsky
 
Sokil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 6,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
No just a little bit of observation and logic.
Is this your way of saying you're living in denial?

Sokil is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:54 PM
  #984
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
really he didn't.

From 2006 to 2010, his average season was 142 games (528 PAs) hitting .267/.329/.709 with 8 homers and a WAR hovering around 0

With the Yankees he was basically a replacement level player thrust into regular duty because they didnt have anything better to offer at the time.

if he wants a cheap 1-year to prove that his 11 and 12 stats weren't a fluke, fine. But he doesn't have any track record prior to 2011 that says he's worth full-time starter money.
I did say he had some decent years with the Yankees. .752 OPS in 06 (rookie year as 21 years old) and 09. Had a bit of a down year in 2007 in his sophomore season. Was awful in 2008 and 2010 with the Braves. He wasn't great with the Yankees but he was decent and pretty young at the time. I think its reasonable to think he could have improved too.

But yes, I wouldn't give him more than a 1 year deal at like 6-7M or so.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:57 PM
  #985
HappyGilmourr
Registered User
 
HappyGilmourr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Milton
Posts: 5,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
What's the hockey equivalent of this trade? Everyone's talking about it, but I don't know the players so I can't really 100% understand the excitement.
Buerhle is a really reliable work horse starter and Josh Johnson is a fantastic pitcher with ace qualities but with a few question marks. Going from an irrelevant pitching staff to having a top 10 pitching rotation is like getting a top 10 goalie. It's like the leafs getting Cam Ward.

Adding Reyes is adding legitimate super star bat... he could win another batting title and he's always going to steal a lot of bases. It's like adding Patrick Kane, but already having a number one centre like Stamkos (Bautista)

HappyGilmourr is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 11:59 PM
  #986
Guy Boucher
Registered User
 
Guy Boucher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,306
vCash: 500
I don't know much about baseball but is there any chance Brett Lawrie can play 2b and we can get someone to play 3b with a bit more power?

Guy Boucher is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:01 AM
  #987
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,435
vCash: 350
Imagine if AA adds a Freeman or a Belt. That would be so nasty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
I don't know much about baseball but is there any chance Brett Lawrie can play 2b and we can get someone to play 3b with a bit more power?
To put it kindly, no. His frame is more suitable for 3B, and he displays excellent range at the position. He also has the potential to hit 25+ bombs, his power was just (obviously) non-existent last year.

Eyedea is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:02 AM
  #988
HappyGilmourr
Registered User
 
HappyGilmourr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Milton
Posts: 5,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
I don't know much about baseball but is there any chance Brett Lawrie can play 2b and we can get someone to play 3b with a bit more power?
Lawrie has been groomed sorta speak to play third. He did well there last season and he has the offensive ability to stay there. No sense in moving him over to second.

HappyGilmourr is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:04 AM
  #989
Everlong
Franchise Pillar
 
Everlong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
I don't know much about baseball but is there any chance Brett Lawrie can play 2b and we can get someone to play 3b with a bit more power?
It's not your fault, but this discussion about Lawrie moving to 2b has been beaten to death. Simply put, it's not going to happen. Lawrie is our 3B for the foreseeable future.

Everlong is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:09 AM
  #990
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
Is this your way of saying you're living in denial?
No its more like every single baseball watching person in this world knows that .avg is not the only stat that matters.

I suppose players 1-49 are better than Albert Pujols... including the likes of Paul Goldschmidt, Ben Revere, Jordan Pacheco, Nori Aoki and Erik Aybar?

No doubt in my mind that there were 60 better hitters in the MLB than Edwin this year.

I'm okay with you arguing that there are some good CF hitters in the show... not ok with you suggesting that the best hitters in the league are sorted by batting average.

topched is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:10 AM
  #991
Nazem Gretzky
Eller 4 Selke
 
Nazem Gretzky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Francais-land
Country: France
Posts: 10,075
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nazem Gretzky
Just noticed that Rasmus had a .354 BABIP in 2010.

No wonder he had such a good year.

Nazem Gretzky is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:24 AM
  #992
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,435
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Just noticed that Rasmus had a .354 BABIP in 2010.

No wonder he had such a good year.
While I don't expect him to replicate the .370 wOBA, if his BABIP can be around the league average then I'm sure his offensive numbers will be satisfying at CF (or LF, when Gose is ready).

I also found this little nugget by Matt Sosnick in Davidi's most recent SN article.
Quote:
"The Blue Jays went from a four to an 8 in one day," said Matt Sosnick, the agent for right-hander Josh Johnson. "Players want to play for a winner. There’s an unknown going to Canada, but with one trade they’ve made it more attractive to the other 750 players in the major-leagues."
This trade didn't just bring us back into relevance in the AL East, but it brings back the respectability players had for the Jays from 20 years ago.

Eyedea is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:37 AM
  #993
alcanalz
whys and wherefores
 
alcanalz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,691
vCash: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
Honestly, I think the Jays need to look into hiring a new training/medical staff as injuries on that level are simply ridiculous. Albeit many of them were freak injuries, still, thats just silly.
What would a different medical or training staff have done differently, especially if many of them were freak injuries?

alcanalz is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:46 AM
  #994
Sokil
Ukraine Specialitsky
 
Sokil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 6,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
No its more like every single baseball watching person in this world knows that .avg is not the only stat that matters.
It's the most important stat, but not the only stat; but I did throw hits, runs, and OBP out there too which you conveniently ignored.

Seeing as the original point I was countering was that CF isn't usually a position that can hit...using things like, you know, hitting average and total hits are kinda relevant here

Sokil is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:49 AM
  #995
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
It's the most important stat, but I did throw hits, runs, and OBP out there too which you conveniently ignored.
Average is not the most important stat. It's not even the most important stat of its type. OBP is basically what average should've been if ye olde time sports writers from the early days of baseball hadn't arbitrarily decided that walks had nothing to do with the hitter at the plate. There's no such thing as the most important stat.

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:50 AM
  #996
Scion
Registered User
 
Scion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
of the top 30 hitters in baseball, 7 are CFs...that's more than any single position

I don't buy into this 'down the middle' stereotype you have, it doesn't hold water
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
Is this your way of saying you're living in denial?
You are embarrassing yourself. My advice is to quit while you are ahead.

Scion is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:52 AM
  #997
Drop The Mits
Toronto Blue Dingers
 
Drop The Mits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion View Post
You are embarrassing yourself. My advice is to quit while you are ahead.
The CN tower is too much of an eye sore for him to *see* your point

Drop The Mits is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 12:58 AM
  #998
Scion
Registered User
 
Scion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Just noticed that Rasmus had a .354 BABIP in 2010.

No wonder he had such a good year.
That is a vast oversimplification. Colby Rasmus enjoyed his highest: ISO, BB% and base running rates in 2010. It is not as simple as Rasmus overachieved because the ball fell in play at an above average rate. He was legitimately good in 2010, and has shown flashes since then to warrant giving him another shot.

Scion is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 01:15 AM
  #999
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
 
Man Bear Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
It's the most important stat, but not the only stat; but I did throw hits, runs, and OBP out there too which you conveniently ignored.

Seeing as the original point I was countering was that CF isn't usually a position that can hit...using things like, you know, hitting average and total hits are kinda relevant here
Batting average is the most important stat? WOW. No, it's certainly not. In fact, it's one of the least telling stats and is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of statistics. Bautista is a career .253 hitter, nuff' said.

Man Bear Pig is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 01:29 AM
  #1000
Sokil
Ukraine Specialitsky
 
Sokil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 6,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Batting average is the most important stat? WOW. No, it's certainly not. In fact, it's one of the least telling stats and is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of statistics. Bautista is a career .253 hitter, nuff' said.
If you're going to factor in his average with the Pirates, please realize this is why they gave him to us for a song. 'nuff said.

Sokil is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.