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Prime Ovechkin vs Prime Crosby vs Prime Malkin

View Poll Results: Sid or OV
Sidney Crosby 133 51.75%
Alexander Ovechkin 98 38.13%
Evgeni Malkin 26 10.12%
Voters: 257. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #26
Luck 6
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Crosby has had just a ridiculous pace over the past ~60 games or so, above 130 points pro-rated. Because of that, I take him. Ov was a force back in the 07/08 season but I still think Sid has him beat.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:28 PM
  #27
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Ovechkin at his best was the best player I have personally ever seen, so have to pick him.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:37 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Ovechkin doesn't do much besides score goals. Malkin is insane when he's on his game. Crosby has played with lesser players his entire career and has a better overall game than both of them.

Homer call:
Crosby
Malkin
Ovechkin
I disagree.

His defensive game is lacking, I admit, but his physical play is right up there in top in the league. He causes more havoc single handedly than either Crosby or Malkin. Just last playoffs he was taking Chara and Seidenberg, one of the toughest pairings in the league, all they could handle, taking runs at them, and they in return took runs at him. This basically kept the pairing tied to OV only and allowed everyone else to have an easier time. His physical play is a huge asset to have come playoffs as it just wears the opposition down, especially since barely anybody can hit OV back.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
  #29
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I don't know. I will bump this thread in 5 years and tell you.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Crosby has had just a ridiculous pace over the past ~60 games or so, above 130 points pro-rated. .
I think it was/is over full season, not 60 games.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:23 PM
  #31
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For me, prime means at least two or three seasons in a row. Going by that, I think OV has the edge.
Crosby's incredible half season is right there with the best stretches of OV's seasons, but he didn't do it long enough, although he surely is capable of.
It is interesting that going forward I would choose Malkin; he seems fully recovered, has had a huge season and not as many question marks as the other two.

But for the poll, Ovechkin. Although that might change if Malkin keeps his level of play.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #32
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Ovy
Crosby
Malkin

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Considering that healthy means Crosby would have no concussion issues the it would be him. If talking about who has had the best 3-5 years prime this far then it is Ovechkin.

Basically this:

Potential/without injuries:

1. Crosby
2. Ovechkin/Malkin

What really happened:

1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Crosby


We are done here. Might as well close the thread.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
65 goal season, which hadn't been done in some time.

Prime Ovy was insane. it's a bit of skewed perspective with Ovy falling off of his prime and Crosby hurt, so we tend to forget.
In the 2010-2011 season Crosby was on pace for 64 goals, 68 assists.

I know 'on pace' doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot, but it wasn't a tiny sample size, it was 41 games.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:31 PM
  #35
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IMO, it's a no brainer with Crosby

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:47 PM
  #36
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I don't know, Kopitar had a good stretch of 20 games at the start of some season. Might be him.

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Old
11-14-2012, 06:19 PM
  #37
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I don't know, Kopitar had a good stretch of 20 games at the start of some season. Might be him.
you forgot one, don't worry though I got it

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:30 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
In the 2010-2011 season Crosby was on pace for 64 goals, 68 assists.

I know 'on pace' doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot, but it wasn't a tiny sample size, it was 41 games.
Stamkos was on pace for 70+ goals for about 30 games.

Ovechkin was on pace for 70+ goals and roughly 140 points for about 40 games one year. Crosby's pace was spectacular but not out of this world. What made it so impressive was the way he looked when he was playing. He did everything right.

He might have continued that pace, no way of knowing. But still, he did not cause the injuries.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:33 AM
  #39
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Sid easy.

He's a cheap shot artist..and a hypocrite (and I really like both Ovi and Geno big time) - but as great as ovi/geno are sid is on an even higher level.


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Old
11-15-2012, 12:35 AM
  #40
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Crosby - All are great in their primes, but Crosby's overall game just seems better and because he WINS (Cup, Olympic Gold, WJC Gold)

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:49 AM
  #41
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Sid easy.

He's a cheap shot artist..and a hypocrite (and I really like both Ovi and Geno bit time) - but as great as ovi/geno are sid is on an even higher level.
He is, when he is playing. Is Crosby's prime roughly 50-80 games? Cause in that case i bet i can find the same kind of stretch from Ovechkin where he produced at the same level.

I think Crosby has the highest potential and abilities, he just doesn't get to play. (Injuries, lockout) Players prime should be more than one season worth of games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SensPromo View Post
Crosby - All are great in their primes, but Crosby's overall game just seems better and because he WINS (Cup, Olympic Gold, WJC Gold)
This is something i never understand. How do one tell when a player is a "winner"? Only based on championships? Cause, first of all, Canadian players should not be given extra credit due to international play. Whenever there is a tournament Canadian NT is the team to beat. Winning WJC, Olympic's, WC etc. is a LOT easier for Canadian than it is for Finnish/Czech players. (i know that getting in to Canada's national team is an accomplishment, but if we are talking about the best players in the world it should be noted that everyone of them would make the Canada NT)
Cup's is a weak argument too, since there is player's even better than Crosby who only managed 1/0 cups in their whole career. Bourque for example. He never got to the Cup before his stint in Avs. I still have never heard anyone to challenge him about being a "winner".

Great players don't win you cups, they help you for sure, but great teams win you cups.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:01 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
He is, when he is playing. Is Crosby's prime roughly 50-80 games? Cause in that case i bet i can find the same kind of stretch from Ovechkin where he produced at the same level.

I think Crosby has the highest potential and abilities, he just doesn't get to play. (Injuries, lockout) Players prime should be more than one season worth of games.



This is something i never understand. How do one tell when a player is a "winner"? Only based on championships? Cause, first of all, Canadian players should not be given extra credit due to international play. Whenever there is a tournament Canadian NT is the team to beat. Winning WJC, Olympic's, WC etc. is a LOT easier for Canadian than it is for Finnish/Czech players. (i know that getting in to Canada's national team is an accomplishment, but if we are talking about the best players in the world it should be noted that everyone of them would make the Canada NT)
Cup's is a weak argument too, since there is player's even better than Crosby who only managed 1/0 cups in their whole career. Bourque for example. He never got to the Cup before his stint in Avs. I still have never heard anyone to challenge him about being a "winner".

Great players don't win you cups, they help you for sure, but great teams win you cups.
the thing is that when sid has played - including this past year - he turns up big time and is a game changer. he's there and he makes things happen...even w/ his injuries if you look at his stats vs. games played (incl. recovering from blows to the head) it's pretty off the hook. (and i say this as someone who loved watching Philly troll the Pens in the playoffs...so it's not like i'm a Crosby apologist or anything). I like Ovi a ton (and would defend him a lot as someone who i think will potentially return to prime) - but w/ that said i just don't think even at his best he's close to sid, that's all.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:37 AM
  #43
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the thing is that when sid has played - including this past year - he turns up big time and is a game changer. he's there and he makes things happen...even w/ his injuries if you look at his stats vs. games played (incl. recovering from blows to the head) it's pretty off the hook. (and i say this as someone who loved watching Philly troll the Pens in the playoffs...so it's not like i'm a Crosby apologist or anything). I like Ovi a ton (and would defend him a lot as someone who i think will potentially return to prime) - but w/ that said i just don't think even at his best he's close to sid, that's all.
I don't disagree with you about Sidney's abilities. He is the best of the bunch. But is he's last 80 games considered his prime/peak or anomaly? It is hard to say since he has not been able to play. This far what has happened Ovechkin has the highest prime (in a sense most people here think prime is, 3-5 years of players best seasons).

Crosby has the highest performance level at their best. But it has only been for about half/1 season. I would not call it a prime, more like a peak.

If someone picks Crosby i will not blame them, or even Malkin for that matter. But my definition of prime is 3-5 best years player has had. Not necessary in a row, but in his career. So off years are acceptable. With that definition i find it hard to lift Crosby higher than Ovechkin. The value of Ovechkin's first 5 years is higher than Crosby's best 3-5 years.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:58 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Ovechkin doesn't do much besides score goals. Malkin is insane when he's on his game. Crosby has played with lesser players his entire career and has a better overall game than both of them.

Homer call:
Crosby
Malkin
Ovechkin
considering hes a 1st line winger, what else is he supposed to do? Crosby and Malkin will never get 65 goals.. not a slight to them, they play different styles but it does prove what kind of offensive dynamo Ovechkin is when he's on his games...

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:30 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I don't disagree with you about Sidney's abilities. He is the best of the bunch. But is he's last 80 games considered his prime/peak or anomaly? It is hard to say since he has not been able to play. This far what has happened Ovechkin has the highest prime (in a sense most people here think prime is, 3-5 years of players best seasons).

Crosby has the highest performance level at their best. But it has only been for about half/1 season. I would not call it a prime, more like a peak.

If someone picks Crosby i will not blame them, or even Malkin for that matter. But my definition of prime is 3-5 best years player has had. Not necessary in a row, but in his career. So off years are acceptable. With that definition i find it hard to lift Crosby higher than Ovechkin. The value of Ovechkin's first 5 years is higher than Crosby's best 3-5 years.
crosby's never had a season where he's been below (or even been close to) ppg. when he's been there he's never been anything other than a game changer (and a big producer). another hit to the head and i think he's going to have to call it a career...but as he's played (even in reduced seasons) i still think he's been consistently the best player in the NHL since he went pro. he's never had a "bad year" - and injured year, but not a year where he played poorly.

after crosby - i'd probably put geno in front of ovi - not just b/c of his more recent play, but b/c i think even if ovi bounces back (which i think he will - although i was more confident about that before the lockout) i think geno's more motivated (immediately and consistently) than ovi.

...and, again, i'm not a crosby superfan or anything. i love him for the "golden goal" but nhl-wise i like malkin and probably ovechkin more than crosby...i also really enjoyed crosby having his '12 playoffs end in the 1st round

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:31 AM
  #46
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Crosby. Is a great player by himself, and makes 3rd liners into 1st liners.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:09 AM
  #47
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Prime Ovechkin was a pretty special thing to watch, like Lindros and Bure had a love child.

I still think Crosby is capable of surpassing that, but for now I've gotta go Ovi.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:10 AM
  #48
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crosby's never had a season where he's been below (or even been close to) ppg. when he's been there he's never been anything other than a game changer (and a big producer). another hit to the head and i think he's going to have to call it a career...but as he's played (even in reduced seasons) i still think he's been consistently the best player in the NHL since he went pro. he's never had a "bad year" - and injured year, but not a year where he played poorly.

after crosby - i'd probably put geno in front of ovi - not just b/c of his more recent play, but b/c i think even if ovi bounces back (which i think he will - although i was more confident about that before the lockout) i think geno's more motivated (immediately and consistently) than ovi.

...and, again, i'm not a crosby superfan or anything. i love him for the "golden goal" but nhl-wise i like malkin and probably ovechkin more than crosby...i also really enjoyed crosby having his '12 playoffs end in the 1st round
I get this, but now we are going circles. Crosby, at his best is the best player. So we do agree on that.

But the question in this poll is not about the best player, it is about the best prime. Would you really consider Crosby's first 5 years in the league better than Ovechkin's? Cause that is basically what is comes down to. I know that i can't.

Forsberg had better prime than Selanne and he is clearly the better player between the two. But Selanne possess a career value that is much higher than Forsberg's. It is not all about the abilities, the actual progress has to count for something.

For the first 5 years Ovechkin and Crosby had basically identical PPG but Ovechkin had much higher GPG. By the end of his fifth year Ovechkin had 5x 1st all-star selections. 2x Hart Trophy, 2x Rocket, Calder, 3x Lindsay, Art Ross and NHL record of goals scored by LW.

I have no idea how does Crosby pull ahead of this?

Is Crosby better than Ovechkin? Yes.
Has he done better than Ovechkin? No.

Now, if you just honestly think that Crosby has been better than Ovechkin for 3-5 year's then fine. But i don't see it.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:21 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I get this, but now we are going circles. Crosby, at his best is the best player. So we do agree on that.

But the question in this poll is not about the best player, it is about the best prime. Would you really consider Crosby's first 5 years in the league better than Ovechkin's? Cause that is basically what is comes down to. I know that i can't.

Forsberg had better prime than Selanne and he is clearly the better player between the two. But Selanne possess a career value that is much higher than Forsberg's. It is not all about the abilities, the actual progress has to count for something.

For the first 5 years Ovechkin and Crosby had basically identical PPG but Ovechkin had much higher GPG. By the end of his fifth year Ovechkin had 5x 1st all-star selections. 2x Hart Trophy, 2x Rocket, Calder, 3x Lindsay, Art Ross and NHL record of goals scored by LW.

I have no idea how does Crosby pull ahead of this?

Is Crosby better than Ovechkin? Yes.
Has he done better than Ovechkin? No.

Now, if you just honestly think that Crosby has been better than Ovechkin for 3-5 year's then fine. But i don't see it.
1st 5 years? yeah, i would. ovechkin was the better goal scorer - but i don't think ovechkin's superior goal scoring ability equates to him being the better player. i find crosby's skill set more dynamic than ovechkin's - ovechkin is amazing at find all sorts of ways to score goals - but after that he's pretty lost (relative to crosby). crosby is more effective at "making things happen" than ovechkin - and i'm going back to their 1st 5 yrs.

that doesn't for that time span i'd say it's always crosby over ovechkin - depending on the team make up, ovechkin's goal scoring ability might be more valuable - but i would still say that crosby was the more versatile player and, in an over all sense, that's why i'd say he was the better player.

in any event, it's kind of a bizarr-o debate...just insofar as we're not comparing a hall of famer with a beer league guy or anything like that. to the extent you pick one over the other - you're picking who's #1a and who's #1b.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:23 AM
  #50
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1st 5 years? yeah, i would. ovechkin was the better goal scorer - but i don't think ovechkin's superior goal scoring ability equates to him being the better player. i find crosby's skill set more dynamic than ovechkin's - ovechkin is amazing at find all sorts of ways to score goals - but after that he's pretty lost (relative to crosby). crosby is more effective at "making things happen" than ovechkin - and i'm going back to their 1st 5 yrs.

that doesn't for that time span i'd say it's always crosby over ovechkin - depending on the team make up, ovechkin's goal scoring ability might be more valuable - but i would still say that crosby was the more versatile player and, in an over all sense, that's why i'd say he was the better player.

in any event, it's kind of a bizarr-o debate...just insofar as we're not comparing a hall of famer with a beer league guy or anything like that. to the extent you pick one over the other - you're picking who's #1a and who's #1b.
Fair enough.

Like i said, Crosby and Malkin are good choices too.

Maybe i just value the games played more than potential.

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