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Murray Underrated....

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:03 AM
  #1
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Murray Underrated....

I see people suggesting Morgan Reilly is better and/or will be better.....I just don't see it, Murray could step into the NHL right now and hold his own, people seem to have a cap on Murray's upside which I honestly think is dumb, anytime you have a defensemen with his IQ you have a chance to be special, that's not to say Reilly sucks but people overrate style and flash to much

I don't see Reinhart on that level either, calm and cool is more effective than flash and dash.....

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11-15-2012, 01:05 AM
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WasTeD
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Just because a few people say Rielly is better doesn't somehow make Murray 'underrated'. Most of us know how good he is and why he went before Rielly in the draft...

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11-15-2012, 01:05 AM
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Maybe under-appreciated a bit. I think Columbus will be very happy with Murray. He is the type of player who can very quietly be your best player.

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11-15-2012, 01:42 AM
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The Beyonder
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Murray, plain and simple, is genius on skates. The guy is one heck of a smart player. I think Rielly is the kind of player everybody notices because of his playing style, which shouldn't be held against him because he's an amazing player, while Murray plays the game cerebrally and calmly. Murray's hockey IQ is through the frigging roof though. Who knows where these players will be 5 years from now, but with that said, IMO, I think Rielly has a bit of a higher ceiling based on his dynamic offensively ability combined with his hockey IQ but I think Murray has far higher chance at reaching his ceiling.

Also, I don't think Murray is underrated in HF at all.

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11-15-2012, 01:45 AM
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No one should be crowning someone a better player, especially a defenseman, within months of the draft.

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11-15-2012, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
No one should be crowning someone a better player, especially a defenseman, within months of the draft.
Why not?

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11-15-2012, 01:48 AM
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Why not?
What you see right now isn't necessarily what you'll be seeing three to five years from now.

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11-15-2012, 01:48 AM
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Reilly is certainly better offensively, but that's different than him being a better defenseman, or Murray being underrated. Murray will never be a 50 point dman, but he'll definitely be a solid 2 way dman

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11-15-2012, 01:51 AM
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Reilly is certainly better offensively, but that's different than him being a better defenseman, or Murray being underrated. Murray will never be a 50 point dman, but he'll definitely be a solid 2 way dman
If Columbus gets some forwards that can put the puck in the net and Murray develops smoothly I could see him hitting 50. He has underrated playmaking abilities, a very solid shot and is great at moving the puck.

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11-15-2012, 01:57 AM
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Kurdt Kobain
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As a Leaf fan I “have to“ like Rielly the most, but in all seriousness, I think Murray is the clear cut better player between the two. As mentioned, his hockey IQ is sky high.. and he just.. he oozes the type of player that everyone wants on their team.

If I had the first overall pick in 2012, no matter what team I was, Murray would be chosen. Not knocking Nail, but I just am not 100% sold on him just yet. If I got to see him play, and not just highlights, I might change my mind... probably not though.

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11-15-2012, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
If Columbus gets some forwards that can put the puck in the net and Murray develops smoothly I could see him hitting 50. He has underrated playmaking abilities, a very solid shot and is great at moving the puck.
It takes a damn good defenseman to hit 50. I've watched Murray lots (including live). He isn't quite that dynamic offensively. That's not to say he isn't good, he is. I see him more as an extremely reliable dman who can handle himself in all zones and I'm guessing he hits 30-40 points most years, but not what you'd call elite offensively

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11-15-2012, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
If Columbus gets some forwards that can put the puck in the net and Murray develops smoothly I could see him hitting 50. He has underrated playmaking abilities, a very solid shot and is great at moving the puck.
I don't think people understand how difficult 50points is for a defensemen..

50 points is difficult for a offensive minded defensemen..

30 point solid defense is enough to put you in the top 30 defensemen in the league.

Think Hamhuis production and defense. (note: not necessarily the same play style)

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11-15-2012, 02:39 AM
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Murray is the best defenseman of the 2012 daft, hands down. He is so smart in his defensive play and he has high IQ. The reason he may be underrated or unapprieciated is because he does everything very good, but he doesn't have an elite quality, while Rielly has elite offensive skills.

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11-15-2012, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
What you see right now isn't necessarily what you'll be seeing three to five years from now.
Agreed. In the deepest draft in the last 20 years, 2003, there were arguments over who got the best D. Suter, Coburn and Phaneuf went 7-9. Seabrook, Burns, Stuart and Belle all went in round 1. 6 more D went in the second round before 49th overall, Shea Weber was selected. Who would you consider the best right now?

It's hard to believe he was the third Nashville D and fourth pick taken that year after Suter and Klein. Add in Sultzer as a 6/7 D from that Draft and Nashville basically built their core D in one single draft...crazy.

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11-15-2012, 03:19 AM
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The top pick of D is never guaranteed to be the top D of the draft. D take longer to develop. These are 5 recent drafts on top of 2003, which I already discussed.

2004
3. Cam Barker
29. Mike Green

2005
3. Jack Johnson
62. Kris Letang

2006
1. Erik Johnson
No other D in the first round has even played 35 NHL games. Absolutely horrible draft year for D.

2007
4. Thomas Hickey
12. Ryan MacDonagh
43. P.K. Subban

2008
2. Drew Doughty
4. Alex Pietrangelo
15. Erik Karlsson

So no one should become indignant or offended if other people don't project Murray as the top D of this draft. While he may have been the most NHL ready at the draft, I tend to agree that Rielly looks far more dynamic to me as well and could be the steal of the draft. With 8 D in the top 10, it is a higher probability that one of them will develop more than Murray than other draft years.

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11-15-2012, 04:06 AM
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Nikita Filatov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
I don't think people understand how difficult 50points is for a defensemen..

50 points is difficult for a offensive minded defensemen..

30 point solid defense is enough to put you in the top 30 defensemen in the league.

Think Hamhuis production and defense. (note: not necessarily the same play style)
Well considering that's the comparison I see fly around the most I don't think you're too far off

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
Murray is the best defenseman of the 2012 daft, hands down. He is so smart in his defensive play and he has high IQ. The reason he may be underrated or unapprieciated is because he does everything very good, but he doesn't have an elite quality, while Rielly has elite offensive skills.
His brain is elite

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11-15-2012, 07:40 AM
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I agree. The guy is under-rated. I think he'll develop into one of the better defensemen in this draft.

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11-15-2012, 08:05 AM
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Its Suter vs. Karlsson in essence. One shouldnt be ranked higher than the other, however one is much more noticeable than the other. I prefer Reilly as i like players who take risks. Murray is too safe and too simple, sometimes its painful to watch.

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11-15-2012, 08:27 AM
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Its Suter vs. Karlsson in essence. One shouldnt be ranked higher than the other, however one is much more noticeable than the other. I prefer Reilly as i like players who take risks. Murray is too safe and too simple, sometimes its painful to watch.
If Ryan Murray reaches his potential, he's the kind of player that'll hold down the fort with a minute remaining in a game seven, protecting a one goal lead.

His style isn't painful at all. If Murray reaches his potential, he'll be a top five d-man in the NHL.

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11-15-2012, 08:28 AM
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I think Murray will be a very good pro but when it is all said and done, I think Rielly will be remembered as the better player at his peak. Over a 15 year career Murray may be better.

Rielly will likely enter the NHL as one of its best skaters. He can move a puck like no one else in his age group.

Murray isn't as flashy but he'll quietly get the job done for years. The $98 million man Ryan Suter is a good comparable.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:36 AM
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If the Islanders where willing to give up every pick in the draft to move up two spots, I think it's pretty clear cut who the best defenseman prospect is.

Also, Murray's offensive stats are at least as impressive as Rielly this year.

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11-15-2012, 08:42 AM
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If Ryan Murray reaches his potential, he's the kind of player that'll hold down the fort with a minute remaining in a game seven, protecting a one goal lead.

His style isn't painful at all. If Murray reaches his potential, he'll be a top five d-man in the NHL.
Meant painfully boring Hes just so invisible all the time!

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:44 AM
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If the Islanders where willing to give up every pick in the draft to move up two spots, I think it's pretty clear cut who the best defenseman prospect is.

Also, Murray's offensive stats are at least as impressive as Rielly this year.
Draft pedigree and pre-draft rankings are worthless especially considering Rielly was drafted base on ~20 games. Also if your going by stats as a way to compare their offence then your just looking for an excuse to bash Rielly considering Rielly is almost half a year younger, with only 1 full season of junior development vs 3, and has clearly better offensive tools.

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11-15-2012, 08:48 AM
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If the Islanders where willing to give up every pick in the draft to move up two spots, I think it's pretty clear cut who the best defenseman prospect is.
I'm not sure that anyone should base an assessment on "What would Garth Snow do?".

Let's also remember that Rielly was drafted by one of the more scrutinized, supported, talked-about franchises in the league. While that is taking nothing away from Rielly the player (who I believe to be a special offensive talent on the backend), a premiere prospect in Toronto will always receive more "chatter" than the same caliber prospect in CBus.

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