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C Stewart for K Ballard

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:27 AM
  #76
thadd
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OK, I'll admit that Ballard is greatly unappreciated on these boards.
I think he's victim to playing a system which doesn't work with his toolbox. He was a very effective 2nd pairing d-man before he went to Vancouver. With another team, I think his play would be much better.

At the same time, this guy has played the role of 6th/7th d-man on Vancouver for a few seasons now and his cap hit is disgustingly huge for a 3rd pairing/reserve d-man. On HFboards, he's nearly comparable to Wade Redden. Regardless of what he could bring playing under another system, most fans of opposing teams on HFboards are instantly going to think "Why would I want to give up that for an overpaid piece of junk who's having a hard time making it as a third pairing d-man?"

Hey, I'm one of them. For all I know Ballard could walk into Edmonton and find himself playing under another system which doesn't suit him.

Stewart has struggled under Hitchkock, but his size and offensive upside is way too much to give up on for anything that isn't a clear overpayment. Vancouver needs to either cough up significantly more in terms of quantity (top prospect and a pick) or instead offer someone who's actually going to be an impact player, because I'm betting Blues fans are hoping it's just a matter of time before he gets over the hump and starts pumping out 30/30 seasons with the Blues.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:15 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
OK, I'll admit that Ballard is greatly unappreciated on these boards.
I think he's victim to playing a system which doesn't work with his toolbox. He was a very effective 2nd pairing d-man before he went to Vancouver. With another team, I think his play would be much better.

At the same time, this guy has played the role of 6th/7th d-man on Vancouver for a few seasons now and his cap hit is disgustingly huge for a 3rd pairing/reserve d-man. On HFboards, he's nearly comparable to Wade Redden. Regardless of what he could bring playing under another system, most fans of opposing teams on HFboards are instantly going to think "Why would I want to give up that for an overpaid piece of junk who's having a hard time making it as a third pairing d-man?"

Hey, I'm one of them. For all I know Ballard could walk into Edmonton and find himself playing under another system which doesn't suit him.

Stewart has struggled under Hitchkock, but his size and offensive upside is way too much to give up on for anything that isn't a clear overpayment. Vancouver needs to either cough up significantly more in terms of quantity (top prospect and a pick) or instead offer someone who's actually going to be an impact player, because I'm betting Blues fans are hoping it's just a matter of time before he gets over the hump and starts pumping out 30/30 seasons with the Blues.
This guy gets it.


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Old
11-14-2012, 08:29 AM
  #78
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Even if Stewart has been struggling, a "power forward" player will always carry solid value in this day and age.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:05 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
If Ballard was on waivers I don't really think we would claim him to be honest.
You're right. You wouldn't get the chance, he would already be gone.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:19 PM
  #80
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Edler will likely be an RFA when hockey returns, not a UFA. On topic, this is not a great proposal.
He'll be 27 in April. Odds are he'll be a UFA.

Back on topic, the Blues gave up a big price for Stewart. I don't see them trading him very easily.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:07 PM
  #81
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As a Blues fan, I'm actually intrigued.

Stewart is getting a lot of praise for being young. Well that's nice, but it's not his age that is a problem, it's his drive to succeed.

And Ballard hasn't hit 30 yet, and isn't nearly as bad as he's getting played down to be.

That said, this still isn't enough for St. Louis to pull the trigger. Especially given Ballard's cap hit.

It's not a bad proposal, certainly not as off as the first page of this thread makes it, but I don't think the Blues say yes, and I don't think Ballard is a piece that the Blues will ultimately pull the trigger on with the contract.

If he made $2.5 per, this is a different story.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:28 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
At the same time, this guy has played the role of 6th/7th d-man on Vancouver for a few seasons now and his cap hit is disgustingly huge for a 3rd pairing/reserve d-man. On HFboards, he's nearly comparable to Wade Redden. Regardless of what he could bring playing under another system, most fans of opposing teams on HFboards are instantly going to think "Why would I want to give up that for an overpaid piece of junk who's having a hard time making it as a third pairing d-man?"
4.2m is not 6.5m

Not being able to beat out Hamhuis and Edler for ice time is not the same as ending up in the minors

If the Blues can go out and find a better top 4 defensemen for less they should do that, no question. My experience is that teams hang onto their top 4 or trade them for significant assets.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:32 PM
  #83
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Done. Trade Luongo + Raymond for Lupul, Franson, protected 1st. Trade for/sign a backup.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Stewart
Booth - Lapierre - Lupul
Weise - Malhotra - Hansen
(Volpatti, Ebbett etc)

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Tanev
Garrison - Franson
(Alberts)

Schneider
?


Last edited by WonderTwinsUnite: 11-14-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
11-14-2012, 11:16 PM
  #84
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Ballard isn't enough of an upgrade over Jackman to justify trading Stewart for him.

Blues don't need to trade assets for a top four LHD. They need to trade assets for a top pairing defenseman, preferably LH, to pair with Pietrangelo. It needs to be someone significantly better than Jackman and Cole, which I don't see Ballard as.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:18 PM
  #85
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Lmao Ballard wouldnt even crack the blues defense

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11-14-2012, 11:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Lmao Ballard wouldnt even crack the blues defense
if you actually believe that I feel sorry for you.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:30 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
4.2m is not 6.5m

Not being able to beat out Hamhuis and Edler for ice time is not the same as ending up in the minors

If the Blues can go out and find a better top 4 defensemen for less they should do that, no question. My experience is that teams hang onto their top 4 or trade them for significant assets.
His 4,2 would make him our 3rd highest paid player. In St. Louis 4m is like an unseen barrier wich just the very best guys can get by. We're not the Rangers or Leafs who CAN pay big bucks to a guy who could pretty likely end up as #6 or #7 dman. We just can't.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:17 AM
  #88
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In a realistic conversation and with approval to have pre-trade contract extension talks with Edler, what would the Blues be willing to part with?
Obviously Vancouver is going to look heavily towards any of Stewart, Oshie and Perron.

As it stands right now Stewart makes the most sense as a basis since his contract ends as well this July and RW depth on the team isn't great on Vancouver. I'd love to acquire Perron, even if anyone says thy worry about his concussion. Well I think if the Blues had any doubts he wouldn't have gotten a new contract like he did. If he didn't mind shifting over to the RW, his hands and vision would really give the 2nd line a whole new dynamic.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:38 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
His 4,2 would make him our 3rd highest paid player. In St. Louis 4m is like an unseen barrier wich just the very best guys can get by. We're not the Rangers or Leafs who CAN pay big bucks to a guy who could pretty likely end up as #6 or #7 dman. We just can't.
Thats very interesting, wasnt aware...
pretty nice balance here:
http://www.capgeek.com/blues/
Of course Pietro will have something to say about that ceiling next summer...

Curious, with the success and this good looking roster ...why did JD get the boot?

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11-15-2012, 06:51 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
OK, I'll admit that Ballard is greatly unappreciated on these boards.
I think he's victim to playing a system which doesn't work with his toolbox. He was a very effective 2nd pairing d-man before he went to Vancouver. With another team, I think his play would be much better.

At the same time, this guy has played the role of 6th/7th d-man on Vancouver for a few seasons now and his cap hit is disgustingly huge for a 3rd pairing/reserve d-man. On HFboards, he's nearly comparable to Wade Redden. Regardless of what he could bring playing under another system, most fans of opposing teams on HFboards are instantly going to think "Why would I want to give up that for an overpaid piece of junk who's having a hard time making it as a third pairing d-man?"

Hey, I'm one of them. For all I know Ballard could walk into Edmonton and find himself playing under another system which doesn't suit him.

Stewart has struggled under Hitchkock, but his size and offensive upside is way too much to give up on for anything that isn't a clear overpayment. Vancouver needs to either cough up significantly more in terms of quantity (top prospect and a pick) or instead offer someone who's actually going to be an impact player, because I'm betting Blues fans are hoping it's just a matter of time before he gets over the hump and starts pumping out 30/30 seasons with the Blues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by underslept View Post
This guy gets it.

theory vs reality

In theory Ballard should be good, in reality he is not.

Ballard did not play on a competitive teams before he joined the nucks and he did not have to deal with the pressure of playing in a hardcore hockey market. Nothing against Phoenix or Ft Lauderdale, but the pressure there is different then in Vancouver

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:06 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Thats very interesting, wasnt aware...
pretty nice balance here:
http://www.capgeek.com/blues/
Of course Pietro will have something to say about that ceiling next summer...

Curious, with the success and this good looking roster ...why did JD get the boot?
Because this is a Doug Armstrong built team. It's his club now.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:34 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
theory vs reality

In theory Ballard should be good, in reality he is not.

Ballard did not play on a competitive teams before he joined the nucks and he did not have to deal with the pressure of playing in a hardcore hockey market. Nothing against Phoenix or Ft Lauderdale, but the pressure there is different then in Vancouver
You're right, Ballard's performance on the ice has everything to do with what's in the local papers and nothing to do with the on ice scenarios he's put into and what he's expected to do in them.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:39 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Thats very interesting, wasnt aware...
pretty nice balance here:
http://www.capgeek.com/blues/
Of course Pietro will have something to say about that ceiling next summer...

Curious, with the success and this good looking roster ...why did JD get the boot?
Money, we couldn't afford extra front office personnel with our budget and JD's role was always more PR anyway.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:44 PM
  #94
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You're right, Ballard's performance on the ice has everything to do with what's in the local papers and nothing to do with the on ice scenarios he's put into and what he's expected to do in them.
yeah, would love to know what % of opinions from multiple fanbases regarding KB's struggles are from ppl who actually watched him play? things like "the pressure's diff in Van vs Phx & Fla" is just so much conjecture ...

those of us who watched every canuck game know that one of the main reasons he was brough in was his durability, having missed very few gmes in nis multiple 30-pt seasons in Fla & Phx. The in mid Oct his first year here he got a serious concussion, then just as he got over that he got that horriffic leg twisting injury that Feb, then more concussion problems last year ...all put him behind the 8-ball bigtime (and behind Hamhuis and Edler on the left side.) If you watched you would've seen that when finally healthy he played really quite well last year.

I believe he is a perfectly solid 2nd pairing option, but of course wont argue that his value isn't low now for all the reasons... but just to say he could barely make the top 6, or can't handle the pressure, or generally he sucks ...all that is just generalizaing from ppl who haven't watched the guy play...

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:49 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
yeah, would love to know what % of opinions from multiple fanbases regarding KB's struggles are from ppl who actually watched him play? things like "the pressure's diff in Van vs Phx & Fla" is just so much conjecture ...

those of us who watched every canuck game know that one of the main reasons he was brough in was his durability, having missed very few gmes in nis multiple 30-pt seasons in Fla & Phx. The in mid Oct his first year here he got a serious concussion, then just as he got over that he got that horriffic leg twisting injury that Feb, then more concussion problems last year ...all put him behind the 8-ball bigtime (and behind Hamhuis and Edler on the left side.) If you watched you would've seen that when finally healthy he played really quite well last year.

I believe he is a perfectly solid 2nd pairing option, but of course wont argue that his value isn't low now for all the reasons... but just to say he could barely make the top 6, or can't handle the pressure, or generally he sucks ...all that is just generalizaing from ppl who haven't watched the guy play...
That's fine and I understand completely where you are coming from. However, he is not enough of an upgrade to give up Stewart. Even admitting Stewart had a bad year I'm not really willing to give him up in a trade like this. I happen to think Stewart is going to rebound. Much like I wouldn't be surprised to see Ballard play much better.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:41 PM
  #96
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Not much interest in Ballard, but Tanev is a player that sounds intriguing. I don't know much about him so any info would be great

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:43 PM
  #97
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St Loo could use a top 4 left side guy and Canucks could use a RW with size.
Both players have been under-utilized some on their current teams.
Both teams deal from strength to shore up weak areas.
Imagine that a Nucks fan trying to dump Ballard. Never seen that before.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:44 PM
  #98
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Not much interest in Ballard, but Tanev is a player that sounds intriguing. I don't know much about him so any info would be great
He's very defensively sound, calm in all situations. His offensive upside is questionable, but he apparently has been working on his shot, so who knows?

However we have very little depth at Right D, so I don't see him going anywhere soon.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:03 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Done. Trade Luongo + Raymond for Lupul, Franson, protected 1st. Trade for/sign a backup.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Stewart
Booth - Lapierre - Lupul
Weise - Malhotra - Hansen
(Volpatti, Ebbett etc)

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Tanev
Garrison - Franson
(Alberts)

Schneider
?
Lol...no no no!! I will catch these my freind!!

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:31 PM
  #100
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That's fine and I understand completely where you are coming from. However, he is not enough of an upgrade to give up Stewart. Even admitting Stewart had a bad year I'm not really willing to give him up in a trade like this. I happen to think Stewart is going to rebound. Much like I wouldn't be surprised to see Ballard play much better.
That's what makes the deal make some sense. I know you guys would rather land a top pairing guy, just like we'd rather land a guy like Doan but beggars can't be choosers. Stewart is a little younger and played well more recently, I think the Canucks would be willing to add, especially if you can throw in a RHD for the farm.

I'm not trying to sell you on someone I don't like. If you read the Canucks board, I expect Ballard to finally round out his game this season. We got a player with a lot of talent but some bad habits from playing on poor teams, the Canucks have forced him to clean those up.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-15-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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