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Why are people hating on Marty

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11-14-2012, 08:50 PM
  #26
Zippy316
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I love the ''Roy is better because he won a Cup at the expense of Brodeur!'' argument too. I will admit that was the worst series Martin Brodeur has ever played, and I've seen them all. It beats out the Rangers 08 series by a wide margin. I don't blame him for costing the team that series though at all. We got shutout by Roy twice, and the second time we had a chance to clinch the series at home, and lost 4-0. I think he let in more unscreened, undeflected point shots that series alone, than he did all of last season. And he let in quite a few of those last season.

I don't know if it was fatigue or what. I do remember he had a winning record vs Roy before that series. I think we played him two or three times after that before he hung them up, and were shut out maybe every time. Roy was in Marty's head after that series for sure, and always let in something he shouldn't have after that series when we played the Avs with Roy in net.
They never said any of that as far as I read, but like I said, they definitely analyzed the stats heavily. I'm just beginning to think they analyzed stats too much, especially for the older guys, and most probably had the "Brodeur was a product of the team/system in front of him." Most claim that Roy and Hasek were much better or just as good on far superior teams also, and that's somewhat justifiable.

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11-14-2012, 08:51 PM
  #27
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Marty's career save percentage is 913(Should be higher with the off shot counting at home) Roy's is 912. Though if Marty plays two more years with save percentages lower than that which he very well might, he may retire with one under that.

Roy wore bigger equipment than Brodeur too. At least from about the mid 90s on he did which is when he posted his best numbers save percentage wise. I remember watching Roy, and the Avs fall to the Wings in the 02 WCF. Roy was terrible one game, and let in like 6 goals in 2 periods, and was pulled. You could tell he was almost done. In 03 when they played the Wild I think it was? He was letting in a lot of bad goals, and his contract was up that year, so I knew he was done. He announced his retirement weeks later.

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11-14-2012, 08:55 PM
  #28
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The reason Marty will never pass Roy in playoff wins. Roy, and the Avs went to AT LEAST the WCF all but one year between 96, and 02. With two SCF appearances, and wins in there. Won in 96, lost in WCF in 97, lost in WCF in 99, lost in WCF in 00, won it all in 01, lost in WCF in 02.

I think in 99, and 2000 they lost to Dallas in 7 games BOTH times in the WCF. I'm pretty sure it was 7. Might have been 7 in 97 also.

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11-14-2012, 08:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GM17 View Post
please tell me you are adding to my post and not replying to it seriously
lol I didn't really read it carefully on my phone earlier. Even given you were being sarcastic it still needed to be said cause of the fools that WOULD make that argument.

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11-14-2012, 08:58 PM
  #30
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Who cares, it's all subjective. We know he's the best!

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11-14-2012, 09:00 PM
  #31
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Wins or not, how can anyone pick that colossal ****** over someone like Marty is beyond me.

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11-14-2012, 09:00 PM
  #32
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It amazes me the people who still think we play the trap. Not just fans, but players, and coaches. This is ignorant, and they have no business saying that. Aside from Lemaire when have we played the trap since the last lockout? Robinson's, and Julien's were not traps. They were half assed. Sutter was not a trapping system, but in interviews before games coaches, and players when asked the key of beating the Devils would say ''We gotta get through that trap''

I think Pacioretty or someone said that this year too. I remember some assistant coach of some team saying it as recent as this last season too. Scout our team when you're prepping a little better jackasses. Maybe it's the fact we're still one of the least shots against team in the league?

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11-14-2012, 09:03 PM
  #33
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And I don't think sixth is any big insult really...I can't speak to how good Hall, Sawchuk and Plante were but they're generally in the discussion at least of the best. As far as Roy and Hasek, Roy gets as much credit for winning two Cups with 'average' Hab teams (that's true to an extent, but both years they also missed playing the best team in the playoffs - '86 Oilers/'93 Pens) and the ten OT wins. I don't really have an issue with him being above Marty.

Hasek's best was probably better than anyone else's best but he had his idiosyncrascies and head issues so it's a little harder to grade him. Same with Roy, to an extent. Part of what makes Marty so great is his consistency and level-headedness. Not to mention his longevity. Roy was done in his mid 30's pretty much and Hasek was reduced to latching on to great teams while Marty's still going strong into his 40's after playing the most minutes/games of any goalie ever.

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11-14-2012, 09:06 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
It amazes me the people who still think we play the trap. Not just fans, but players, and coaches. This is ignorant, and they have no business saying that. Aside from Lemaire when have we played the trap since the last lockout? Robinson's, and Julien's were not traps. They were half assed. Sutter was not a trapping system, but in interviews before games coaches, and players when asked the key of beating the Devils would say ''We gotta get through that trap''

I think Pacioretty or someone said that this year too. I remember some assistant coach of some team saying it as recent as this last season too. Scout our team when you're prepping a little better jackasses. Maybe it's the fact we're still one of the least shots against team in the league?
We do have elements of the trap, but every team does. A 1-2-2 is almost like the go-to system for any team, any team, player, or fan that says their team doesn't trap is lying through their teeth. They might not be as passive as other teams, but trapping a team in the neutral zone in a 1-2-2 format is essentially the trap.

The 1-2-2 format is essentially the easiest way to play defense in the NHL and the most effective. It's like the I formation of the NHL.

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11-14-2012, 09:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
We do have elements of the trap, but every team does. A 1-2-2 is almost like the go-to system for any team, any team, player, or fan that says their team doesn't trap is lying through their teeth. They might not be as passive as other teams, but trapping a team in the neutral zone in a 1-2-2 format is essentially the trap.

The 1-2-2 format is essentially the easiest way to play defense in the NHL and the most effective. It's like the I formation of the NHL.
Well we aren't a defensive minded team now like we were with Lemaire, or Robinson, or Burns, or any of those 90s/early 00s teams. This is more of an offensive system.

One game I had to watch on the other teams feed. It was Panthers vs Devils, and my MSG feed was acting weird early in the game, so I had to watch their guys for at least the beginning of the game. It was Patty's 1000th. Before the game they had what one of their assistants said the key to beating New Jersey was, and it was something about breaking the trap.

Idiot you probably weren't here last year when Deboer was a coach with your team, but do your scouting a little better man. What are you getting paid for? The announcers too were saying it was a trap. They remember Deboer obviously. He wasn't trapping with Florida!

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11-14-2012, 11:13 PM
  #36
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I will always consider Marty the best of all time because I believe he is the only goaltender who would have success anywhere from the beginning of the goalie-mask era to today.

You stick Plante in today's game and he would get destroyed. You give Roy the pads they have in the 60's and how good would he be? Marty, on the other hand, could probably handle the small pads on the old days and he's obviously had recent sucess.

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11-14-2012, 11:45 PM
  #37
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I firmly believe save percentages are overinflated today because of bigger pads. That's not to say the goalies who wear big pads have no talent, but nobody even in the 90s before this started getting out of control had 930s for the season, and 920 career. That's not to say Luongo, and Lundqvist are not good either.

There is a direct correlation with goaltenders Roy, and POS Sean Burke for example. If you look at the years they posted their biggest save percentages it's when they were wearing bigger equipment. Burke would have never posted a 920 in 1988, or even 1994 for that matter like he did in 01, and 00, and he didn't. That's also not to say Roy was not good wearing smaller equipment. He definitely still was. Burke maybe a couple good seasons.

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11-15-2012, 04:08 AM
  #38
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Marty was a winning machine. Roy or Hasek didn't dominate the league in wins like Marty did for basically his entire career. And no, it was NOT because of the great defense that the Devils had. He kept up the wins even after the lockout.

Brodeur's league rank in wins by year:

1997: 2nd
1998: 1st
1999: 1st
2000: 1st
2001: 1st
2002: 2nd
2003: 1st
2004: 1st

2006: 1st
2007: 1st
2008: 2nd
2009: (Hurt)
2010: 1st

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11-15-2012, 07:00 AM
  #39
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I'm sure that Marty gives zero ****s about whether people hate on him. Also, if you're not hated and you're the best at what you do, then you're doing something wrong anyway.



Haters gonna hate.

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11-15-2012, 07:19 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 View Post
In the end, it is all about winning and Marty has done that more than anyone else. Unfortunately he doesnt have as many win in the postseason as Roy but its funny how he gets all the credit for his wins yet Brodeur's are all the "system."
I think we've started to get away from that argument now, thankfully. People are starting to recognise that Marty is still winning games, despite not having those Hall of Fame defencemen for years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
It amazes me the people who still think we play the trap. Not just fans, but players, and coaches. This is ignorant, and they have no business saying that. Aside from Lemaire when have we played the trap since the last lockout? Robinson's, and Julien's were not traps. They were half assed. Sutter was not a trapping system, but in interviews before games coaches, and players when asked the key of beating the Devils would say ''We gotta get through that trap''

I think Pacioretty or someone said that this year too. I remember some assistant coach of some team saying it as recent as this last season too. Scout our team when you're prepping a little better jackasses. Maybe it's the fact we're still one of the least shots against team in the league?
Part of the reason we're one of the best teams for shots against is the arena statistician, who undercounts shots like Lou pays him to do it.

I think it's lazy media announcers who perpetuate the trap myth. Pierre McGuire has figured it out by now, but he's one of the few. You still hear clowns like Errey and Steigerwald in Pittsburgh who are busy telling their audiences that the Devils still play the trap. And there are enough people who don't know better, who believe them.

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11-15-2012, 07:31 AM
  #41
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How Pittsburgh fans put up with those bozos, I have no idea...

I mean, we know Chico is a blatant homer but he never makes dumb accusations about tired old stereotypes.

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11-15-2012, 07:44 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
How Pittsburgh fans put up with those bozos, I have no idea...

I mean, we know Chico is a blatant homer but he never makes dumb accusations about tired old stereotypes.
You guys are complaining about tired old stereotypes? Join the club.

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11-15-2012, 07:47 AM
  #43
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You guys are complaining about tired old stereotypes? Join the club.
I won't join any club with people who cheer on a dirty team that deliberately attempts to hurt people every shift

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11-15-2012, 07:50 AM
  #44
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I won't join any club with people who cheer on a dirty team that deliberately attempts to hurt people every shift
Thank you for proving my point.

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11-15-2012, 07:56 AM
  #45
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Thank you for proving my point.

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11-15-2012, 07:58 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by marty 4 hart View Post
People just love to lay hate on him. The history board just voted Marty the sixth greatest goalie ever. They voted Hasek the choker above him. But we all know that Marty is no1.
ah, this must be your first day. welcome to HF. please find a seat. I think itís time to play dodgeball.

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11-15-2012, 08:03 AM
  #47
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Part of the reason we're one of the best teams for shots against is the arena statistician, who undercounts shots like Lou pays him to do it.
Marty also doesn't get enough credit for the shots he prevents by his stickhandling and puck clearance.

So many people want to use save percentage as the end all, be all, argument for goalies, and while it's a great number to look at it, Marty is a good example of a goalie where that number isn't telling the whole story.

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11-15-2012, 08:11 AM
  #48
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Welcome to the internet.

Where everyone's fake and the points don't matter.

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11-15-2012, 08:19 AM
  #49
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My fault. After reading these forums long enough I assume everything is serious unless it has the in it.

I'm sure you've read the main boards so I don't need to explain anything else really.

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11-15-2012, 08:31 AM
  #50
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My fault. After reading these forums long enough I assume everything is serious unless it has the in it.

I'm sure you've read the main boards so I don't need to explain anything else really.
I leave it out to separate friend and foe

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