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Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

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11-15-2012, 08:26 AM
  #351
CheerstoBeers
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Time for the owners to just say listen, this is what were offering and it's not gonna get any better..No more negotiations, take it or leave it..If ya leave it then no season this year and this offer will get no better next season..Don't take it next season then we cancel another season..Not sure how the player's couldn't cave in that scenario. No more hockey ever again til ya agree to this offer, plain and simple

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11-15-2012, 08:29 AM
  #352
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I was one of the ones who was confident by LAST Friday when they were talking and we thought they were getting somewhere.


Now, I think the players have 1-2 weeks to come to their senses or there is no season at all.
I said I was fairly confident a deal gets done soon, although I wasn't throwing down Friday as any sort of deadline. Many of us fully expected talks to collapse once more before a deal was reached, just as they have. It's hard to be positive right now, I'll fully admit, but if sides do resume talks it would be huge right now. It will need to be the PA extending the olive branch though, so I'm not sure, maybe we're headed to full out collapse.

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11-15-2012, 08:30 AM
  #353
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Are all of these particular contracts limits that the League is asking for truly necessary for the owners to achieve their objectives of cutting costs?

If they can get the players to agree to the 50/50 split, and have that completely in place within 3 years, which I know hasn't been done yet, but if they can do that then are all these other contract limitations that the owners are asking for truly necessary? It seems like just a pile of issues that help to prevent getting an agreement done.

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11-15-2012, 08:30 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
Time for the owners to just say listen, this is what were offering and it's not gonna get any better..No more negotiations, take it or leave it..If ya leave it then no season this year and this offer will get no better next season..Don't take it next season then we cancel another season..Not sure how the player's couldn't cave in that scenario. No more hockey ever again til ya agree to this offer, plain and simple
They should but they wont.

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11-15-2012, 08:31 AM
  #355
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So no more meetings booked then?

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11-15-2012, 08:31 AM
  #356
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I have a feeling at some point in time, more PA shady dealings will be revealed.

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11-15-2012, 08:31 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by CheerstoBeers View Post
Time for the owners to just say listen, this is what were offering and it's not gonna get any better..No more negotiations, take it or leave it..If ya leave it then no season this year and this offer will get no better next season..Don't take it next season then we cancel another season..Not sure how the player's couldn't cave in that scenario. No more hockey ever again til ya agree to this offer, plain and simple
They've done that. They've by rumor agreed to an HRR split and have told the players what they've accept in terms of contract rights, they've said that they will not negotiate on those. Now the ball is in the players court to respond, something they do all so well

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11-15-2012, 08:35 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
I was one of the ones who was confident by LAST Friday when they were talking and we thought they were getting somewhere.


Now, I think the players have 1-2 weeks to come to their senses or there is no season at all.
Don't get why some feel the season is two weeks away from being cancelled???? They won't scrap it any time soon...sorry to those who just want it to end one way or another any time soon

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11-15-2012, 08:38 AM
  #359
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I don't know how anybody can claim that either Bettman, Daly or the Fehr bros are doing a good job. Four guys sitting in a room saying 'no' to each other for 3 months doesn't scream competence to me. This entire negotiation should be taught in law schools of what not to do. So far, and anyone on here can correct me if i'm wrong, one side scribbled down $1.8 Billion+ on a piece of paper, spit on it, and then handed it over to the other side and hasn't moved since. The other side started with a FAKE offer and has since settled in nicely to the deal that they wanted in the first place. If the NHL had submitted the proposal that they actually wanted neither side would have moved at all since August.

Then there's the players, who are the real victims in all this, saying if the NHL had offered the 50/50 + the make whole thing in August they'd be playing now. How does that make any sense? Are they saying if the NHL offered the previous that they would have moved off their only position: $1.8 Billion +.

Anybody can be ignorant and wait for the other side to cave during a negotiation between two parties that are tied at the hip together. Its not brilliant or strategic.

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11-15-2012, 08:39 AM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Are all of these particular contracts limits that the League is asking for truly necessary for the owners to achieve their objectives of cutting costs?

If they can get the players to agree to the 50/50 split, and have that completely in place within 3 years, which I know hasn't been done yet, but if they can do that then are all these other contract limitations that the owners are asking for truly necessary? It seems like just a pile of issues that help to prevent getting an agreement done.
Not as a league, no. But it would make it more affordable to maintain homegrown talent, giving small market teams a chance to compete while operating close to the salary floor. The players still get paid the same, it just moven money from the 2nd contract towards later contracts.

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11-15-2012, 08:43 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Who originally said Friday was the day?
Rebecca Black. "Friday, Friday, get the CBA done on Friday..."

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11-15-2012, 08:44 AM
  #362
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Shawn Simpson ‏@SSimpsonHockey

Chris Campoli of all people, got into a heated battle, with Leonsis, Jacobs, and Leopold! Bettman had to step in. #Bizzare #NameCalling

Found this tweet to be a bit interesting plus its confirmation that Campoli really did get annoyed with the owners. Not sure if the name calling hash tag means that things got really heated or its just an assumption. By the way the guy I'm quoting for this tweet is a Minnesota Wild consultant among other things.

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11-15-2012, 08:44 AM
  #363
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Are all of these particular contracts limits that the League is asking for truly necessary for the owners to achieve their objectives of cutting costs?
Absolutely not. Players are going to get, as a whole, the agreed upon percentage. HOW that percentage gets split amongst the players, should not be that big of a deal to the owners. Whether a 24 year old lands the $7MM deal or the 33-year old lands the $7MM deal, the amount the owners are paying is still the same. Playing hardball over that is just plain stupid.

Using my team as an example. If Kreider lights it up the next two years and is considered one of the best young players in the world, why should he not get paid what he is worth on his next contract? Why should a guy like Brad Richards get more just because he is older?

With a salary cap, the concept of RFA, UFA, and RFA with or without Arb rights is just plain unnecessary. People want to use the NBA and NFL as their guideline for the revenue split. Well, not sure on the NBA as I do not follow but the NFL has a much LESS restrictive free-agnecy process. The NFL players wanted the rookie wage scale to keep more money in the pot for the veterans. That is really the only thing needed. Give players the rookie scale and then UFA after the ELC expires. Maybe a very limited RFA. Minimum of 100 NHL games to be UFA, but have safeguards so teams don't get shady, by say benching players the last 5-6 games of a season to keep them at 99. Maybe use number of games on the NHL roster so games as a scratch count.

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11-15-2012, 08:48 AM
  #364
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I do find it funny when fringe/journeyman players start complaining and yelling at the owners. If and when the NHL does get back on track and start playing games, who would want to sign someone who does this kind of stuff?

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Absolutely not. Players are going to get, as a whole, the agreed upon percentage. HOW that percentage gets split amongst the players, should not be that big of a deal to the owners. Whether a 24 year old lands the $7MM deal or the 33-year old lands the $7MM deal, the amount the owners are paying is still the same. Playing hardball over that is just plain stupid.

Using my team as an example. If Kreider lights it up the next two years and is considered one of the best young players in the world, why should he not get paid what he is worth on his next contract? Why should a guy like Brad Richards get more just because he is older?

With a salary cap, the concept of RFA, UFA, and RFA with or without Arb rights is just plain unnecessary. People want to use the NBA and NFL as their guideline for the revenue split. Well, not sure on the NBA as I do not follow but the NFL has a much LESS restrictive free-agnecy process. The NFL players wanted the rookie wage scale to keep more money in the pot for the veterans. That is really the only thing needed. Give players the rookie scale and then UFA after the ELC expires. Maybe a very limited RFA. Minimum of 100 NHL games to be UFA, but have safeguards so teams don't get shady, by say benching players the last 5-6 games of a season to keep them at 99. Maybe use number of games on the NHL roster so games as a scratch count.
so players can be UFA at 21-22?

you can kiss the small market teams good bye.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:55 AM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I do find it funny when fringe/journeyman players start complaining and yelling at the owners. If and when the NHL does get back on track and start playing games, who would want to sign someone who does this kind of stuff?

those are the guys who feel this the most. The high end players will always be rich anyways but the boardine guys need as much playing time as possible in the league for the pension.

The boardline guys are the ones who are affected the most by the lockout. Im not surprised at all that it was Campoli.

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11-15-2012, 08:55 AM
  #367
jeety mcjeet
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I do find it funny when fringe/journeyman players start complaining and yelling at the owners. If and when the NHL does get back on track and start playing games, who would want to sign someone who does this kind of stuff?
Agreed. Campoli is enough of a fringe player that the outburst may be enough to blacklist him. Oh well, I still hate him for losing game 7 for the hawks.

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11-15-2012, 08:57 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
those are the guys who feel this the most. The high end players will always be rich anyways but the boardine guys need as much playing time as possible in the league for the pension.

The boardline guys are the ones who are affected the most by the lockout. Im not surprised at all that it was Campoli.
I know they feel it the most, but I'm sure if you don't watch yourself. No matter what may entail in the new CBA, it would be hard to sign someone that has had a history of fighting/yelling/arguing with owners. The best things to do is to stay positive, work with others in the PA and with Fehr to help get things done. Don't go out on your own limb and attack.

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11-15-2012, 08:58 AM
  #369
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I wonder what he said? "You guys are greedy, give me my money!" would be my guess.

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11-15-2012, 09:00 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Absolutely not. Players are going to get, as a whole, the agreed upon percentage. HOW that percentage gets split amongst the players, should not be that big of a deal to the owners. Whether a 24 year old lands the $7MM deal or the 33-year old lands the $7MM deal, the amount the owners are paying is still the same. Playing hardball over that is just plain stupid.

Using my team as an example. If Kreider lights it up the next two years and is considered one of the best young players in the world, why should he not get paid what he is worth on his next contract? Why should a guy like Brad Richards get more just because he is older?

With a salary cap, the concept of RFA, UFA, and RFA with or without Arb rights is just plain unnecessary. People want to use the NBA and NFL as their guideline for the revenue split. Well, not sure on the NBA as I do not follow but the NFL has a much LESS restrictive free-agnecy process. The NFL players wanted the rookie wage scale to keep more money in the pot for the veterans. That is really the only thing needed. Give players the rookie scale and then UFA after the ELC expires. Maybe a very limited RFA. Minimum of 100 NHL games to be UFA, but have safeguards so teams don't get shady, by say benching players the last 5-6 games of a season to keep them at 99. Maybe use number of games on the NHL roster so games as a scratch count.
The lower salary structure for players with less experience is a throwback to the pre-cap days in sports that has likely remained behind because the veterans control more voting power in any players association. In the case of the NFL, the rookies hurt by the change weren't even drafted yet so they didn't even get to vote.

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11-15-2012, 09:02 AM
  #371
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Agreed. Campoli is enough of a fringe player that the outburst may be enough to blacklist him. Oh well, I still hate him for losing game 7 for the hawks.
Not a chance. These are shrewd billionaires in the room, do you really think they're going to take it to heart that a 28 year old hockey player yelled at them a bit? If anything they probably got a good chuckle out of it. They certainly aren't going to let minor personal feelings like that get in the way of business.

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11-15-2012, 09:04 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I know they feel it the most, but I'm sure if you don't watch yourself. No matter what may entail in the new CBA, it would be hard to sign someone that has had a history of fighting/yelling/arguing with owners. The best things to do is to stay positive, work with others in the PA and with Fehr to help get things done. Don't go out on your own limb and attack.
Campoli is done in the NHL. I think he is trying to get himself a job with the PA

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11-15-2012, 09:04 AM
  #373
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Shawn Simpson ‏@SSimpsonHockey

Chris Campoli of all people, got into a heated battle, with Leonsis, Jacobs, and Leopold! Bettman had to step in. #Bizzare #NameCalling
Yeah - this is the kind of behavior that's going to get a deal signed. As somebody has just said, Campoli will be laughed at and that will be it. His outburst does nothing to advance proceedings.

Maybe it's time for both sides to leave the amateurs at home and focus on using pros to negotiate.

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11-15-2012, 09:06 AM
  #374
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I was one of the ones who was confident by LAST Friday when they were talking and we thought they were getting somewhere.


Now, I think the players have 1-2 weeks to come to their senses or there is no season at all.
I think they have til the end of December to reach a deal, otherwise the season will be cancelled.


Last edited by albator71: 11-15-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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11-15-2012, 09:12 AM
  #375
jeety mcjeet
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Not a chance. These are shrewd billionaires in the room, do you really think they're going to take it to heart that a 28 year old hockey player yelled at them a bit? If anything they probably got a good chuckle out of it. They certainly aren't going to let minor personal feelings like that get in the way of business.
No I don't think those guys are going to lose any sleep over it. He's a fringe player, lots of those around. He may have punched his ticket to bovine university.

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