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2012-2013 Official BST Discussion Thread Part II

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:44 AM
  #126
NYI78
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan17 View Post
Dat Nelson wrister

Glad to see us beat the Blueskirts farm team, it kills me to see Haley scoring goals on us though. Why did we let him go? He is the 4th liner that this team NEEDS, someone that can fight, hit and play when need be (Another Martin pretty much). I guarantee you he's going to get a call up for the Rags, stay up there and thrive under Tortorella. This team makes some of the easiest decisions the hardest ones, keeping Haley should have been a no brainer.
we let him go because he has some demons off the ice..we'll leave it at that

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11-13-2012, 08:08 AM
  #127
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that wrister is dirty...

Im so pumped at the development of Brock Nelson I thought when we drafed him he would be at most a good 3rd line 2 way center.

Hes now looking like a legit top 6 center with a scoring touch.
No offense, but these are the kind of comments about draft picks in general that I find ridiculous. Maybe everyone, including myself, should take this into account the next time we want to label a prospect or complain about who we drafted. Just sayin..

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11-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by _illicit_ View Post
No offense, but these are the kind of comments about draft picks in general that I find ridiculous. Maybe everyone, including myself, should take this into account the next time we want to label a prospect or complain about who we drafted. Just sayin..
I never complained about the Nelson pick. If he were to become a solid 3rd line 2 way center with size that played on the Island for years than I would have been happy. For the last pick in the 1st roud thats pretty good, most guys drafted never makie it to the NHL or dont stay long. Im just stating that Im excited because Nelson is exceeding my expectaions is all. I dont remember his name being talked about in 2010 as a 1st rounder. I know in the MINN HS hockey community his name was big.


Also, are you saying that we as fans are not allowed to have certain expectations for our players or draft picks? Because thats Ridiculous in its self.

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11-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I never complained about the Nelson pick. If he were to become a solid 3rd line 2 way center with size that played on the Island for years than I would have been happy. For the last pick in the 1st roud thats pretty good, most guys drafted never makie it to the NHL or dont stay long. Im just stating that Im excited because Nelson is exceeding my expectaions is all. I dont remember his name being talked about in 2010 as a 1st rounder. I know in the MINN HS hockey community his name was big.


Also, are you saying that we as fans are not allowed to have certain expectations for our players or draft picks? Because thats Ridiculous in its self.
not to speak for _illicit_ but I think his comment was not directed at you, but to fans in general that seem to project a player's upside right after the draft, rather than allow the player to develop and see what kind of player he can become, IN TIME.

Fans do this to everyone, but Isles fans are especially bad at this (probably because the team has sucked for so long that the draft is more exciting than the games, especially after November 16th (ie. when they are typically mathematically eliminated from the playoffs

There are MANY posts on this very board that were limiting Tavares' upside, even AFTER he played a year with the Islanders.

Also, as a general rule, I don't think draft position always related to upside. Sometimes, a sure-fire pick who'll make the NHL and never be more than a 2nd line support player can be a top ten overall YET a boom-or-bust type player might be a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th rounder. It's impossible to say.

In Nelson's case, the first time I saw him play in college (was in his sophomore year) you can tell he had some pretty special tools, but had a long way to go in his development. He's starting to show what kind of player the NYI HOPED he might become one day, and he still has a ways to go, in my opinion. But he's looking like a lock for some NHL time sooner than later!

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:03 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
My guess is, Haley wanted a one way NHL deal and the Isles weren't going to give it to him. He got it from the Rangers.

While I did like him, it's not really that big of a loss.
Agreed on this as well...

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:27 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
not to speak for _illicit_ but I think his comment was not directed at you, but to fans in general that seem to project a player's upside right after the draft, rather than allow the player to develop and see what kind of player he can become, IN TIME.

Fans do this to everyone, but Isles fans are especially bad at this (probably because the team has sucked for so long that the draft is more exciting than the games, especially after November 16th (ie. when they are typically mathematically eliminated from the playoffs

There are MANY posts on this very board that were limiting Tavares' upside, even AFTER he played a year with the Islanders.

Also, as a general rule, I don't think draft position always related to upside. Sometimes, a sure-fire pick who'll make the NHL and never be more than a 2nd line support player can be a top ten overall YET a boom-or-bust type player might be a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th rounder. It's impossible to say.

In Nelson's case, the first time I saw him play in college (was in his sophomore year) you can tell he had some pretty special tools, but had a long way to go in his development. He's starting to show what kind of player the NYI HOPED he might become one day, and he still has a ways to go, in my opinion. But he's looking like a lock for some NHL time sooner than later!
This.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:05 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
My guess is, Haley wanted a one way NHL deal and the Isles weren't going to give it to him. He got it from the Rangers.

While I did like him, it's not really that big of a loss.
When you look at how barren this club is of testosterone and how low their salary cap is it boggles the mind that they didn't retain him. The only thing that kept me at bay in this one was that they added Carkner and Boulton.

They still need to add toughness while reducing the Mary-factor. Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen, Streit, MacDonald, Moulson... That right there is the Vienna Boys Choir. You might as well play "Do you really want to hurt me," when they step out onto the ice.

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11-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
There are MANY posts on this very board that were limiting Tavares' upside, even AFTER he played a year with the Islanders.
That is pretty funny to read. I think there were ten people in North America who thought Tavares was limited. The ones that did though... I am thinking they learned something from what he has done with his development on a really bad squad with no help.

Tavares is a monster. I heard they banned him from Tokyo.

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11-13-2012, 09:44 PM
  #134
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Can someone elaborate a little on Haley's off ice demons? Are we talking problems with coaching / management or we talking "personal" issues and we can leave it at that. And btw I was reading the article on the new jumbotron and saw the line in the article on the Irish pub that will be opening in the building early 2013. Me and my friends have been saying for years that they needed something like that. Anybody know anymore details? I was a 20 game ticket holder for the last few years but we just had a baby girl and we're only going to a few games this year so I'm out of the loop.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:03 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by will5059 View Post
Can someone elaborate a little on Haley's off ice demons? Are we talking problems with coaching / management or we talking "personal" issues and we can leave it at that. And btw I was reading the article on the new jumbotron and saw the line in the article on the Irish pub that will be opening in the building early 2013. Me and my friends have been saying for years that they needed something like that. Anybody know anymore details? I was a 20 game ticket holder for the last few years but we just had a baby girl and we're only going to a few games this year so I'm out of the loop.

personal issues....he was told to get them fixed and he didn't address them

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11-14-2012, 11:06 AM
  #136
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Old
11-14-2012, 11:53 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
That is pretty funny to read. I think there were ten people in North America who thought Tavares was limited. The ones that did though... I am thinking they learned something from what he has done with his development on a really bad squad with no help.

Tavares is a monster. I heard they banned him from Tokyo.
Quote of the day. I literally LOL'ed.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:33 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by NYI78 View Post
personal issues....he was told to get them fixed and he didn't address them
Good enough. Thanks.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:37 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
not to speak for _illicit_ but I think his comment was not directed at you, but to fans in general that seem to project a player's upside right after the draft, rather than allow the player to develop and see what kind of player he can become, IN TIME.

Fans do this to everyone, but Isles fans are especially bad at this (probably because the team has sucked for so long that the draft is more exciting than the games, especially after November 16th (ie. when they are typically mathematically eliminated from the playoffs

There are MANY posts on this very board that were limiting Tavares' upside, even AFTER he played a year with the Islanders.

Also, as a general rule, I don't think draft position always related to upside. Sometimes, a sure-fire pick who'll make the NHL and never be more than a 2nd line support player can be a top ten overall YET a boom-or-bust type player might be a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th rounder. It's impossible to say.

In Nelson's case, the first time I saw him play in college (was in his sophomore year) you can tell he had some pretty special tools, but had a long way to go in his development. He's starting to show what kind of player the NYI HOPED he might become one day, and he still has a ways to go, in my opinion. But he's looking like a lock for some NHL time sooner than later!
I see this a lot here. One guy in particular who gets killed on this board is Loic Leduc. He was taken in the 4th and he as well as Snow/the scouts were killed for this pick immediately after it happened. I know he's had a bad year to this point, but I still think it's extremely early to judge a 4th round pick, especially one that was clearly taken as a project(which IMO, considering how stocked this team is with talent, wasn't a bad move. Whether or not it was too early to take him is a different issue).

This team has a lot of players that project to be decent 2nd or 3rd pairing d-men, or solid 3rd line/decent 2nd line forwards. I had no problem with them taking a home-run swing with a guy like Leduc. If he doesn't pan out, no harm done... they only spent a 4th on him anyway.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:14 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I see this a lot here. One guy in particular who gets killed on this board is Loic Leduc. He was taken in the 4th and he as well as Snow/the scouts were killed for this pick immediately after it happened. I know he's had a bad year to this point, but I still think it's extremely early to judge a 4th round pick, especially one that was clearly taken as a project(which IMO, considering how stocked this team is with talent, wasn't a bad move. Whether or not it was too early to take him is a different issue).

This team has a lot of players that project to be decent 2nd or 3rd pairing d-men, or solid 3rd line/decent 2nd line forwards. I had no problem with them taking a home-run swing with a guy like Leduc. If he doesn't pan out, no harm done... they only spent a 4th on him anyway.
Blinkman, a homerun swing actually means that there is a distinct possibility that something good could come of the situation. BUT, there is not one positive in the Leduc situation. He was never even thought of as a player that was going to be drafted, I bet even he was shocked being drafted, let alone being picked at the top of the 4th round. A defenseman, he was -9 in 4 playoff games. That's almost impossible to do, even if you tried to do it on purpose. An alleged 6'5" fighter, who went to the Dale Rolfe school of fighting, basically gets his head handed to him every fight.

Leduc was the 209 rated skater in Central Scouting, and lets not forget, CS does not include European skaters in their list, they are rated separately. So Leduc would probably be rated in the 300 range. We took him 104th overall. I wouldn't call this taking a home-run swing, I'd call this meekingly flailing at strike 3, or striking out looking. A home-run swing would have been someone like Gemel Smith or Anton Zlobin, at least you have a chance at possibly connecting.

Leduc will never make it to the NHL, he was a dumb pick by people who were trying to show the NHL how smart they were. The same smart people who took Jason Clark in the 3rd round and Cody Rosen.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:16 AM
  #141
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Yeah, I really don't understand the Leduc pick. Somerby is a more interesting prospect.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:35 AM
  #142
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Blinkman, a homerun swing actually means that there is a distinct possibility that something good could come of the situation. BUT, there is not one positive in the Leduc situation. He was never even thought of as a player that was going to be drafted, I bet even he was shocked being drafted, let alone being picked at the top of the 4th round. A defenseman, he was -9 in 4 playoff games. That's almost impossible to do, even if you tried to do it on purpose. An alleged 6'5" fighter, who went to the Dale Rolfe school of fighting, basically gets his head handed to him every fight.

Leduc was the 209 rated skater in Central Scouting, and lets not forget, CS does not include European skaters in their list, they are rated separately. So Leduc would probably be rated in the 300 range. We took him 104th overall. I wouldn't call this taking a home-run swing, I'd call this meekingly flailing at strike 3, or striking out looking. A home-run swing would have been someone like Gemel Smith or Anton Zlobin, at least you have a chance at possibly connecting.

Leduc will never make it to the NHL, he was a dumb pick by people who were trying to show the NHL how smart they were. The same smart people who took Jason Clark in the 3rd round and Cody Rosen.
he's a 4th rounder..what percentage of 4th round picks make the nhl??? if he makes it great...you can't hit a home run everytime..he's a project..i'm not getting on a gm for any pic after the first round..its a crap shoot at best...the isles have a track record for finding good value in rounds 2-7 soo if they miss here..then so be it

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11-15-2012, 10:50 AM
  #143
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Yeah, I really don't understand the Leduc pick. Somerby is a more interesting prospect.
Even as an Islander, Zdeno Chara didn't look like much of a prospect.
Leduc is 6'6" and under 200lbs (when drafted), he's nothing now, compared to what he could develop into, one day.

I'm not endorsing any player or attempting to suggest the team "should have taken player X" - frankly, I don't see enough of the prospects to be able to make the call.

Of the players I DO SEE, there's ones that I feel will be great pros - but ranking one ahead of another, ESPECIALLY outside the top five overall, is pretty impossible - UNLESS we have the benefit of hindsight. (ie. Jeff Skinner)

It's a message board. Of course we all have favourites, opinions, and we should certainly discuss this stuff, especially in a lockout - no issue there.

But the Islanders chose Aaron Ness and Corey Trivino before Travis Hamonic.
All teams have such examples.
They make the call based on a lot more information than anyone on this board has and then it's up to the player, the commitment to improving, work ethic, hockey sense, luck and more luck.

I would have taken Couturier ahead of Strome, but that's only because I saw Couturier play more and he was really good. But what the heck do I know?!


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11-15-2012, 10:53 AM
  #144
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he's a 4th rounder..what percentage of 4th round picks make the nhl??? if he makes it great...you can't hit a home run everytime..he's a project..i'm not getting on a gm for any pic after the first round..its a crap shoot at best...the isles have a track record for finding good value in rounds 2-7 soo if they miss here..then so be it
Exactly. In the grand scheme of things, picking a project with a 4th rounder is not the end of the world. I am personally failing to understand the amount of hate regarding the late round picks from the last draft. Give them time to see what happens, but continually harping at this present time is rather tiring and unproductive.

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11-15-2012, 12:57 PM
  #145
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personal issues....he was told to get them fixed and he didn't address them
I'm not one to usually say this but, source?

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:39 PM
  #146
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11-15-2012, 04:23 PM
  #147
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Yeah, I really don't understand the Leduc pick. Somerby is a more interesting prospect.
I know this belongs in the prospect thread. I didn't like the Leduc pick either, but that would be nice if he could develop into a poor man's Hal Gill.

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11-15-2012, 04:31 PM
  #148
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I know this belongs in the prospect thread. I didn't like the Leduc pick either, but that would be nice if he could develop into a poor man's Hal Gill.
i dont think a poor mans hall gill would have a place in the nhl

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11-15-2012, 04:36 PM
  #149
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i dont think a poor mans hall gill would have a place in the nhl
Hal Gill in his prime was a top-4 mean shutdown defenseman. Even in Pittsburgh he was good.

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:43 PM
  #150
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i dont think a poor mans hall gill would have a place in the nhl
Sure he would, a fringe NHL'er capable of playing 40 games or so as a 7th D. If Leduc becomes that then it's a pretty solid selection.

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