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Greatest _____ to play the game

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:35 PM
  #26
Tkachuk4MVP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
Maybe greatest Russian players in NHL history, but Bure isn't even top 10 as far as Russian players all time go.

That guy's list had Kovalev and Mogliny on it. Neither one of them should be on there ahead of Bure.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:36 PM
  #27
ToneBone03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
LOL. There are several better Russians who are playing right now. Not to mention some of the other all-time greats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
That guy's list had Kovalev and Mogliny on it. Neither one of them should be on there ahead of Bure.
LOL, totally forgot Bure.

As for Kovalev, he has over 1000 points in the NHL. Don't let your subjectivity skew the facts. He's one of the greats. Not to mention, one of the most skilled players to ever play the game. Now, the work ethic and dedication may be questionable, but based on pure skill he's off the charts.

As for Mogilny, the difference between him and Bure isn't astronomical. Over his NHL career, Bure averaged roughly 1.10 PPG, Mogilny 1.04. Let's not forget Mogilny's 76 goal season - more than Bure ever scored in one season. Now, I'm not saying Mogilny is better than Bure, but let's not underrate Mogilny here. He IS one of the greats.


Last edited by ToneBone03: 11-15-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 12:54 PM
  #28
Hammer Time
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Canada - Gretzky
USA - Chelios
Sweden - Lidström
Czech Rep - Hasek
Finland - Selanne
Russia - Makarov
Slovakia - Stastny

(I know they all played for USSR/Russia, but they were still born in those countries
Latvia - Balderis
Lithuania - Kasparaitis
Ukraine - Zhitnik
Kazakhstan - Nabokov

Germany - Kühnhackl
Switzerland - Hiller
France - Huet
Slovenia - Kopitar
Norway - Thoresen

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ToneBone03 View Post
LOL, totally forgot Bure.

As for Kovalev, he has over 1000 points in the NHL. Don't let your subjectivity skew the facts. He's one of the greats. Not to mention, one of the most skilled players to ever play the game. Now, the work ethic and dedication may be questionable, but based on pure skill he's off the charts.

As for Mogilny, the difference between him and Bure isn't astronomical. Over his NHL career, Bure averaged roughly 1.10 PPG, Mogilny 1.04. Let's not forget Mogilny's 76 goal season - more than Bure ever scored in one season. Now, I'm not saying Mogilny is better than Bure, but let's not underrate Mogilny here. He IS one of the greats.

Nothing against Kovalev and Mogilny, I'm big fans of both and I agree that they are two of the all-time greatest Russian players. I was just saying that Bure should be on your list ahead of them.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by darglor View Post
France: Paul MacLean (I think almost PPG beats out Huet...)
Lithuania: Zubrus? Kasparitis?
Poland: Wolski? Czerkawski?
Taiwan: Langway
Brazil: Regehr
Italy: Sbisa?
South Africa: Kolzig

... I can't think of any other weird ones.
South Korea: Richard Park

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:20 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Nothing against Kovalev and Mogilny, I'm big fans of both and I agree that they are two of the all-time greatest Russian players. I was just saying that Bure should be on your list ahead of them.
I agree. Maybe I'm a bit biased with Mogilny too because he was the only legit winger the Leafs acquired to play with Sundin.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
No Bure?
no, hes only a hall of famer

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
Canada - Gretzky
USA - Chelios
Sweden - Lidström
Czech Rep - Hasek
Finland - Selanne
Russia - Makarov
Slovakia - Stastny

(I know they all played for USSR/Russia, but they were still born in those countries
Latvia - Balderis
Lithuania - Kasparaitis
Ukraine - Zhitnik
Kazakhstan - Nabokov

Germany - Kühnhackl
Switzerland - Hiller
France - Huet
Slovenia - Kopitar
Norway - Thoresen
Bingo,this was our best player,ever.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
You guys think that Gil Perreault or Paul Coffey could be in a mix a bit?
I love Perreault but I'm not even sure he's a lock for top ten Quebecois of all time. And Coffey is at best a top 10 Canadian Dman.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Pajicz View Post
Japan: Fukufuji
Taro Tsujimoto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
And Kharlamov is widely considered as the best Russian forward of all time. And at worst third best player behind Fetisov and Tretiak.
Many consider Makarov better than Kharlamov. Which also opens the door for star players such as Fedorov, Ovechkin, Malkin, Bure, and Mogilny to be considered.

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Many consider Makarov better than Kharlamov. Which also opens the door for star players such as Fedorov, Ovechkin, Malkin, Bure, and Mogilny to be considered.
I would say that Kharlamov has more supporters than Makarov.

Although I myself think that Makarov is pretty easily the best Soviet/Russian forward. Time will show, if Malkin or Ovechkin can take over.

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:53 PM
  #37
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Denmark - Frans Nielsen

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:08 PM
  #38
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Those Swedish lists aren't good.

No mention of Hakan Loob or kent Nilsson or Mats and Markus Naslund or Thomas Steen. Shame that Naslund's peak was in the dead puck era or he coulda had 2-3 100 pt seasons.

And American fans have forgotten Leclair and Amonte? At their peaks they were two of the best Americans to play the game, in fact Leclair was probably one of the best NHLers in the mid to late 90s, injury in 2000 sorta sent him downhill.

And you can't really count Mikita as Slovakia, that's like saying Bob Nystrom was Swedish. Maybe you can count Pavol Demitra instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
I would say that Kharlamov has more supporters than Makarov.

Although I myself think that Makarov is pretty easily the best Soviet/Russian forward. Time will show, if Malkin or Ovechkin can take over.
Makarov's scoring in a high scoring NHL era isn't that impressive. Ovechkin/Malkin/Kovalchuk/Bure/Fedorov have already surpassed him imo. Of course you can say he's a great player because of what he did for CSKA or the national team but you have to use the NHL as the highest stage and he wasn't in his prime maybe when he entered but he wasn't that old either. The modern ones have simply done more at a level where it can be proven that they were up against the best at equal odds.


Last edited by Elever: 11-15-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 05:23 PM
  #39
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Germany - Olaf Kolzig anyone?

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:32 PM
  #40
Hammer Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Those Swedish lists aren't good.

No mention of Hakan Loob or kent Nilsson or Mats and Markus Naslund or Thomas Steen. Shame that Naslund's peak was in the dead puck era or he coulda had 2-3 100 pt seasons.

And American fans have forgotten Leclair and Amonte? At their peaks they were two of the best Americans to play the game, in fact Leclair was probably one of the best NHLers in the mid to late 90s, injury in 2000 sorta sent him downhill.

And you can't really count Mikita as Slovakia, that's like saying Bob Nystrom was Swedish. Maybe you can count Pavol Demitra instead.



Makarov's scoring in a high scoring NHL era isn't that impressive. Ovechkin/Malkin/Kovalchuk/Bure/Fedorov have already surpassed him imo. Of course you can say he's a great player because of what he did for CSKA or the national team but you have to use the NHL as the highest stage and he wasn't in his prime maybe when he entered but he wasn't that old either. The modern ones have simply done more at a level where it can be proven that they were up against the best at equal odds.
I'm a Canucks fan and I wouldn't put Naslund anywhere close to the #1 Swedish player of all time. He simply wasn't a world-class player for more than 3 seasons, unlike Forsberg, Lidstrom, etc.

Makarov played 13 seasons in the Soviet league, and in 9 of those seasons he was the leading scorer in the Soviet league, including six in a row from 1984-1989. He was also clearly the best forward on the national team, and judging from his play during the Canada Cup, he was, for a short time during the mid-1980s, better than every North American except Gretzky and Lemieux.

Even after he came into the NHL at age 31, he was outscoring every NHL player of his age.

Highest points per game, NHL players aged 31 or older, 1989-90:
Makarov - 1.08
Wilson - 1.04
Stastny - 0.99
Tonelli - 0.93
Mullen - 0.88

1990-91:
Makarov - 1.01
Propp - 0.92
Kerr - 0.89
Gartner - 0.87
Broten - 0.87

1991-92:
Gretzky - 1.64
Messier - 1.35
Mullen - 1.13
Gartner - 1.07
Makarov - 1.03

Makarov was simply consistently among the best over a long period of time, something Malkin has yet to do (although he has a good chance of doing so)

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Bingo,this was our best player,ever.
1992–93 Latvijas Zelts Latvia Games: 22 Goals: 76 Assists: 66 Points: 142

Sweet Jebus.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #42
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Edit: Now I get it, totally forgot about Rudi Ball. But for Germany it has to be Kühnhackl. He has been voted as "German player of the century". His stats are excellent on every level, national league, international.
I had actually never heard of Kuhnhackl, I looked him up and I would agree that he is a better player than Ball. Is he related to the Penguins prospect (Tomas) of the same last name?

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:17 PM
  #43
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England: Hand
Scotland and Britain yes, England no

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:42 PM
  #44
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Would Heatley qualify for Germany?

Know he was born there but for some reason I thought it was on a Canadian military base which I think qualifies as Canada (like an embassy)

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Japan: Tsujimoto
Japan : Ryan O' Marra
Paraguay: Willy Plett
Brunei: Craig Adams
Indonesia: Richie Regehr

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Those Swedish lists aren't good.

No mention of Hakan Loob or kent Nilsson or Mats and Markus Naslund or Thomas Steen. Shame that Naslund's peak was in the dead puck era or he coulda had 2-3 100 pt seasons.
.
Maybe you skipped active players but otherwise should Sedins and Alfredsson be ahead of Loob,Nilsson and Steen and atleast on par with Näslund.nBut I agree on Näslund. His peak was tremendous but it is so sad that it was so short. But during this peak he was the guy who scored most points in NHL during a three year span and only Iginla was ahead of him in terms of goals.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:44 AM
  #47
lazerbullet
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Makarov's scoring in a high scoring NHL era isn't that impressive. Ovechkin/Malkin/Kovalchuk/Bure/Fedorov have already surpassed him imo. Of course you can say he's a great player because of what he did for CSKA or the national team but you have to use the NHL as the highest stage and he wasn't in his prime maybe when he entered but he wasn't that old either. The modern ones have simply done more at a level where it can be proven that they were up against the best at equal odds.
First of all, Makarov was great for CSKA and I can't dismiss it. He stood his ground against NHL superstars in those Canada Cups.
Then in the NHL considering his age he did just fine. Ovechkin for example already slowed down despite being even younger.

And in the end... go watch some games with Makarov. He was fast, shifty, brilliant playmaker, great scorer. He also was very intelligent player. So despite all the success that for example Ovechkin had, he was more psychical and possibly had a better shot. In every other aspect Makarov was better. Imho Makarov was something like a cross between Datsyuk and Kovalchuk. Smartness, playmaking and determination from Datsyuk. Shot and wheels from Kovalchuk. Imagine a player like that playing today. He would rip the league to shreds.


Can Ovechkin and Malkin surpass him? Of course. But imho Fedorov, Bure haven't.

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:17 PM
  #48
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I had actually never heard of Kuhnhackl, I looked him up and I would agree that he is a better player than Ball. Is he related to the Penguins prospect (Tomas) of the same last name?
That is his son.

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:24 PM
  #49
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That was the one that I debating when I saw the title, Ozolinsh or Irbe?
Ozolinsh for me. Won a Cup, had a lot more ASG appearances than I realised and was a better d-man than Irbe was a goalie, even if he did spend a lot of time on a stacked Avs team.

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:29 PM
  #50
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I'd maybe change Finland to Selänne, and HM to Kurri and Lehtinen. Otherwise you're spot on.
No. Just no.

It's just Kurri, with HM to Selänne. Numminen, Koivu, Lehtinen are the afterthoughts

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