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[MIA / TOR] Big Blockbuster (Reyes, Johnson, Buerhle to TOR)

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:13 PM
  #326
Ih8theislanders
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Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
Selig said to be "not happy" w/ #marlins trade, but so far doesn't see basis to disallow. Selig's quote: "under review"

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11-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
Selig said to be "not happy" w/ #marlins trade, but so far doesn't see basis to disallow. Selig's quote: "under review"
If Selig overturns the trade, you might as well just move the Jays to the U.S. and forget about all of Canada as a market, because it will be dead.

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11-15-2012, 12:45 PM
  #328
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If Selig overturns the trade, you might as well just move the Jays to the U.S. and forget about all of Canada as a market, because it will be dead.
You couldn't be more wrong.

Jays fans are well aware of the farm system that AA has built over the past few years. Its quite clear that good days are ahead, many just didn't envision it happening like this.


It went the same way in the late 80's-early 90's; they built the farm system and then eventually made some moves to turn a .500 team into a contender. Clearly Alex has the same plan.


Even if this deal falls through, I'll guarentee another big move happens. Rogers has opened their wallets and Alex is obviously prepared to parlay furtures into now.


If Selig overturns the deal, its nothing to do with the Jays... Its that he won't allow that much disfunction by the Marlins to go on in his league.

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11-15-2012, 01:03 PM
  #329
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Buehrle family probably not very happy with this move given they cant bring one of there family dogs into Canada

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11-15-2012, 01:11 PM
  #330
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Considering that Selig didn't veto the Boston/Los Angeles mega player trade I can't see how the Toronto/Miami trade is any different with the salaries Toronto is adding. Plus since the trade was made public to the media how would it look to all the players involved if it doesn't happen? So that's another reason why I see it being made official.

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11-15-2012, 01:15 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
You couldn't be more wrong.

Jays fans are well aware of the farm system that AA has built over the past few years. Its quite clear that good days are ahead, many just didn't envision it happening like this.

It went the same way in the late 80's-early 90's; they built the farm system and then eventually made some moves to turn a .500 team into a contender. Clearly Alex has the same plan.

Even if this deal falls through, I'll guarentee another big move happens. Rogers has opened their wallets and Alex is obviously prepared to parlay furtures into now.

If Selig overturns the deal, its nothing to do with the Jays... Its that he won't allow that much disfunction by the Marlins to go on in his league.
None of that will matter, because this is all about optics for Toronto. Jays fans see their GM making a big move to improve the team now, just like the Yankees and Red Sox do all the time, and they get excited.

What will they think, then, when the Commissioner personally steps in and invalidates the trade that got them so excited?

They'll see a league that allows its big markets to spend as much as they want and make as many trades as they want, but steps in to stop their team from doing the same. They'll look back at the history of the Montreal Expos and wonder why the league never stepped in to stop Jeffrey Loria from doing much, much worse to that franchise than this deal would do to the Marlins. Most importantly, they'll receive the following message from MLB, whether Selig meant to convey it or not:

"Your team doesn't count, your city doesn't count, and you don't count. You are here to be cannon fodder for the big markets, and nothing more."

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11-15-2012, 01:22 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdon Alger View Post
None of that will matter, because this is all about optics for Toronto. Jays fans see their GM making a big move to improve the team now, just like the Yankees and Red Sox do all the time, and they get excited.

What will they think, then, when the Commissioner personally steps in and invalidates the trade that got them so excited?

They'll see a league that allows its big markets to spend as much as they want and make as many trades as they want, but steps in to stop their team from doing the same. They'll look back at the history of the Montreal Expos and wonder why the league never stepped in to stop Jeffrey Loria from doing much, much worse to that franchise than this deal would do to the Marlins. Most importantly, they'll receive the following message from MLB, whether Selig meant to convey it or not:

"Your team doesn't count, your city doesn't count, and you don't count. You are here to be cannon fodder for the big markets, and nothing more."
How can you possibly tell me, a Jays fan, what Jays fans will think?


I understand the black eye that Loria has given MLB, and would understand Selig stepping in stopping a deal like this from happening.

Would he be doing it because its the Blue Jays? Or because of the principal?

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11-15-2012, 01:54 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
How can you possibly tell me, a Jays fan, what Jays fans will think?


I understand the black eye that Loria has given MLB, and would understand Selig stepping in stopping a deal like this from happening.

Would he be doing it because its the Blue Jays? Or because of the principal?
It won't matter why Selig does it. It will matter how Toronto fans - indeed, Canadian fans - interpret it.

Even if Selig comes out and swears up and down he did what he did out of principle, and even if that's true, people here aren't going to buy it. After Montreal, fans up here aren't going to take Selig at his word for anything. At best, they'll view it as favouritism in favour of the large markets; at worst, they'll assume a conspiracy is afoot to kill the Jays as the Expos were killed - and hey, the same two people are involved here!

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11-15-2012, 02:18 PM
  #334
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you're both wasting your words.

loria is playing selig's game of revenue sharing and profit-turning. there's nothing selig can do about this.

if anything, where was bud when the taxpayers of miami were conned into giving loria a brand new park...with the taxpayers footing the bill. by the time the balloon payments hit on the stadium, the taxpayers get to pay 2.4 billion dollars.

that's more of a crime than trading a couple of athletes.

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11-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #335
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I wonder if Miami fans hate Loria or Castro more?

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11-15-2012, 02:47 PM
  #336
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I wonder if Miami fans hate Loria or Castro more?
They lost their last 8 remaining with this trade....

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11-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I wonder if Miami fans hate Loria or Castro more?
Cubans are free to stay in America once they reach the US soil. They cannot be deported, so I doubt they give a **** about Castro once they are in the US.

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11-15-2012, 02:59 PM
  #338
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Cubans are free to stay in America once they reach the US soil. They cannot be deported, so I doubt they give a **** about Castro once they are in the US.
boy did you miss a blow up in april of this year.

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11-15-2012, 03:02 PM
  #339
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boy did you miss a blow up in april of this year.
Well, because of him, Cubans in Miami are labeled as "refugees" instead of illegal immigrants.

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11-15-2012, 03:26 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I wonder if Miami fans hate Loria or Castro more?
The only player with value in that trade was Johnson. But sadly he's injury prone ace with one year left in contract. It's not the end of the world. From baseball standpoint, it's great trade for Miami. Stop overreacting.

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11-15-2012, 03:36 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdon Alger View Post
None of that will matter, because this is all about optics for Toronto. Jays fans see their GM making a big move to improve the team now, just like the Yankees and Red Sox do all the time, and they get excited.

What will they think, then, when the Commissioner personally steps in and invalidates the trade that got them so excited?

They'll see a league that allows its big markets to spend as much as they want and make as many trades as they want, but steps in to stop their team from doing the same. They'll look back at the history of the Montreal Expos and wonder why the league never stepped in to stop Jeffrey Loria from doing much, much worse to that franchise than this deal would do to the Marlins. Most importantly, they'll receive the following message from MLB, whether Selig meant to convey it or not:

"Your team doesn't count, your city doesn't count, and you don't count. You are here to be cannon fodder for the big markets, and nothing more."
Since when was Toronto a small market?

Selig won't do a thing to block this deal, he just wants to put it out there so he can tell the mob "I tried!" And even if he did, it seems pretty doubtful that Anthopoulos would just take his ball and go home, and not try to acquire another big name with his deep farm system/his owners' open checkbook.

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11-15-2012, 04:07 PM
  #342
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As an Orioles fan, **** you Marlins, **** you hard.

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11-15-2012, 04:57 PM
  #343
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I still think they're secretly targeting Guillen.
Ha. That would be the quickest way to totally undo all the positives of this deal.

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11-15-2012, 05:10 PM
  #344
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Ha. That would be the quickest way to totally undo all the positives of this deal.
Not really. He's got a big mouth, but he would definitely be better than Farell at managing.

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11-16-2012, 12:32 AM
  #345
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What makes the Red Sox better? They weren't last year and all they've done is trade major pieces away.
First off, they are the Red Sox. They have money to burn and a better farm system right now then the Jays. They made a major trade last year getting rid of Beckett who I think,imo, is washed up, and Agon, freeing up a whole bunch of money in the process. Was there ulterior motives for getting those two and Crawford out of town? Maybe. But the fact that the Red Sox can pretty much buy anybody they want and the first team if JJ has a good year that will throw a blank check at him. The Red Sox also got rid of Bobby V, who was the main reason that team turned into cold garbage, so right there, thats addition by subtraction and makes the Red Sox better on that move alone.
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What moves would the Jays need to make to solidify their team, out of last place?
Well for starters, aquiring players with a history of injury isnt one of them, but thats just my opinion.

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11-16-2012, 12:37 AM
  #346
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The Jays gave up none of their "top" prospects
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...3/2614294.html


They gave up three of ten best prospects by the opinion of BBA, who pretty much have prospecting on lockdown.

The more I look into this trade, the more it looks even with a slight edge to the Marlins after all the money they saved.

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11-16-2012, 12:43 AM
  #347
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Thanks Toronto

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11-16-2012, 12:52 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...3/2614294.html


They gave up three of ten best prospects by the opinion of BBA, who pretty much have prospecting on lockdown.

The more I look into this trade, the more it looks even with a slight edge to the Marlins after all the money they saved.
Yeah I was using a respected Jays prospect site that had none of the prospects traded top-3; I had linked it earlier but I should have been more specific when I said "top".

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11-16-2012, 02:06 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...3/2614294.html


They gave up three of ten best prospects by the opinion of BBA, who pretty much have prospecting on lockdown.

The more I look into this trade, the more it looks even with a slight edge to the Marlins after all the money they saved.
I think you need to lay off the martini's, Martini.

The Jays got an all star shortstop whose 2 years removed from a batting title for a decent defensive SS prospect, and an underperforming primma donna problem child SS without much range, and who makes countless bonehead mistakes.... TWO top end of the rotation starters for Alvarez, a 4-5 guy, and Nicolino who projects as a 3-4. A solid OF prospect who is still very raw, and another pitching prospect with limited upside for a switch hitting utility man with speed, something the team needed badly. On top of that, they swaped a catcher who can't hit at all, for a catcher who can hit a little bit and has a bit of pop.


The Jays win this trade by a landslide.

If Reyes is injury riddled and Johnson walks as a FA, then it becomes close... But if JJ performs, he'll get paid here.. Just like Bautista did, just like Halladay did. Although in the field the turf may be a concern for Reyes, at the plate it will likely benefit a guy with his speed for extra base hits.


No logical person sees this as anything other then a huge win for the Jays at this time. Sure, theres risks involved, just like every other trade.. But if all the players coming to Toronto perform around career average, its not even close...

You're either a hater, or just delusional.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:14 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...3/2614294.html


They gave up three of ten best prospects by the opinion of BBA, who pretty much have prospecting on lockdown.

The more I look into this trade, the more it looks even with a slight edge to the Marlins after all the money they saved.
So using that logic why does Bud Selig need to look into the trade? Forgetting about the type of players the Marlins are giving up if these prospects are as good as you say, then it's also a fair trade for their side. Let's not forget the Blue Jays who also included Yunnel Escobar and Jeff Mathis, so the Marlins also got some players with a few years of MLB experience.

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