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Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:52 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Chris Phillips to Mark Recchi - "Be quiet. You don't understand the situation. You don't know what's going on."

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/14...r-cba-comments

Phillips' comments are really disappointing. Keep fighting the good fight there, boys.
Makes me hope they trash can this season and the start of the next season.

Maybe the new group of NHL players will have a different point of view on 50% of HRR.

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11-15-2012, 11:10 AM
  #102
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I just hope the NHL puts a new final proposal together and says take it or leave it. Lets get a drop dead date going so Fehr stops dikin around. His strategy is to just wait until the last second.

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11-15-2012, 11:10 AM
  #103
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Yeah strong words there from Phillips but not surprising or unexpected. i mean he wasn't going to say "yeah Mark has a point we should sign a deal now" his response was one i expected and one any player would give at this point. does that mean the players are far from caving, maybe but not necessarily i think they are just smart enough to express strength and unity when dealing with media
Unless he was asked to respond to Recchi's comment it's likely a situation to not comment on. It just makes him sound like an idiot. Mark doesn't know what he's talking about? Really, he has no clue? Didn't he endure a couple lockouts himself?

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I was thinking there is a bunch of old players on contract that were supposed to play this season but if the season gets cancelled there is a chance they retire

40 year old Martin Brodeur will be 41 come sept 2013
42 year old Teemu Selanne will be 43 come sept 2013
40 year old Jaromir Jagr will be 41 come sept 2013
40 year old Ray Whitney will be 41 come sept 2013
39 year old Daniel Alfredsson will be 40 come sept 2013

I'm probably missing a few but as you can see these aren't just any old players i'm talking about. The 5 players above are all undoubtably great players and will all be over 40 come september 2013. Notably the first 3 i think are all pretty legendary players who will be future hall of famers and will finish their careers with their names in nhl record books. If the lockout lasts all season we may never see the players play again
Yeah there will likely be retirements, last lockout saw the end of Messier, Francis and two other significant players careers. Can't think of them off the top of my head.

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11-15-2012, 11:11 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
I just hope the NHL puts a new final proposal together and says take it or leave it. Lets get a drop dead date going so Fehr stops dikin around. His strategy is to just wait until the last second.
That's what happened on the offer to save the entire season, a deadline date was set and it unraveled faster than a ball of yarn. Fehr doesn't need deadline he actually believes there is a win for the players.

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11-15-2012, 11:15 AM
  #105
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What does a drop dead deadline mean anyway? You really think if NHL says okay Dec. 15 if there is no deal then the year is cancelled that this would actually mean anything?

It will only mean something when there isn't enough time left to put together a meaningful season.

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11-15-2012, 11:20 AM
  #106
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They aren't cancelling the season until mid to late feb if it's anything like the last lockout

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:24 AM
  #107
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I get it's more about philosophy and principles for the players. Their mantra is "If we cave this time, what will happen 7-10 years down the road? Will it be down to 45%?"

As much as you want to take care of the rest, you also have to take care of yourselves. These guys will have a loss in net earnings. It's like some of them don't understand that.

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11-15-2012, 11:25 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
What does a drop dead deadline mean anyway? You really think if NHL says okay Dec. 15 if there is no deal then the year is cancelled that this would actually mean anything?

It will only mean something when there isn't enough time left to put together a meaningful season.
I do. They have not bluffed on any dates yet. I think Fehr is just waiting until the last second for the NHL to make one last proposal to save the season.

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11-15-2012, 11:29 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
I do. They have not bluffed on any dates yet. I think Fehr is just waiting until the last second for the NHL to make one last proposal to save the season.
So the PA and NHL decide to start re-talking in January get a deal done on the 10th of Jan, but because of the drop dead date in Dec there is no hockey? Very doubtful.

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11-15-2012, 11:34 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
I get it's more about philosophy and principles for the players. Their mantra is "If we cave this time, what will happen 7-10 years down the road? Will it be down to 45%?"

As much as you want to take care of the rest, you also have to take care of yourselves. These guys will have a loss in net earnings. It's like some of them don't understand that.
Bingo, and really why is 50/50 so damn bad? They have no expenses to pay while the owners have to pay their expenses out of that 50% so depending on the team and its revenues they might well be losing money while all of their players are getting paid like it's no big thing.

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I do. They have not bluffed on any dates yet. I think Fehr is just waiting until the last second for the NHL to make one last proposal to save the season.
I agree, if he's clowning around, tell him that here's the drop dead date, if he keeps screwing around then he can explain to the NHLPA why they aren't going to be playing this year when he tries to bluff the NHL.

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11-15-2012, 11:36 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
So the PA and NHL decide to start re-talking in January get a deal done on the 10th of Jan, but because of the drop dead date in Dec there is no hockey? Very doubtful.
The owners would have to stand by that drop dead date or it would hurt their bargaining power next time around and it's not their fault if Fehr finally decides to get serious in the New Year that's all on him. So Fehr can say whatever he wants in January because it would only work for the next season.

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11-15-2012, 11:38 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The owners would have to stand by that drop dead date or it would hurt their bargaining power next time around and it's not their fault if Fehr finally decides to get serious in the New Year that's all on him. So Fehr can say whatever he wants in January because it would only work for the next season.
And you can really see that happening? That would kill the NHL and make it quite possibly the biggest joke in North America.

I'll give in to the notion that sponsors would continue to back the NHL, but that's not going to matter. They'll be losing the fans and without the fans those sponsors will eventually give the league less or just outright leave.

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11-15-2012, 11:52 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
And you can really see that happening? That would kill the NHL and make it quite possibly the biggest joke in North America.

I'll give in to the notion that sponsors would continue to back the NHL, but that's not going to matter. They'll be losing the fans and without the fans those sponsors will eventually give the league less or just outright leave.
And this doesn't also kick the players in the balls how exactly? They are fighting for revenue that might not even be there when the league resumes.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:59 AM
  #114
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cancel the season already

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:06 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
And you can really see that happening? That would kill the NHL and make it quite possibly the biggest joke in North America.

I'll give in to the notion that sponsors would continue to back the NHL, but that's not going to matter. They'll be losing the fans and without the fans those sponsors will eventually give the league less or just outright leave.
It already is.
Look at how fast the NBA and the NFL settled their lockout.
Yet the NHL dicks and dithers and its players for the most part have their heads up their ***** and can't see the forest for the trees.


Hell even the replacement ref issue in the NFL was dealt with quickly when it started to become a problem. In my mind, I can't understand how players or owners don't see this lockout as a giant shotgun sized shot in the foot. These idiots. They finally get a foothold in the pro sports market and turn their league into a multibillion dollar entity and now they're undoing all the hard work of the last 6 years. Good luck getting the american fans back in the seats.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:18 PM
  #116
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When asked if careers will be finished because of this lockout, or players never getting money back from work stoppages, a lot of the players standard mantra is that they are helping the young guys, the future players have contracts and situations that are good going forward. Good from what, I ask? This isn't the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's where guys like Gordie Howe would play for a team jacket and others like Ted Lindsay got used slightly better than cattle. No one is going to starve here, and the sooner these clowns realize that no matter what is signed, they will be grossly overpaid for what they do, the better it will be for them. The players were screwed so badly by the last CBA agreement that their salaries have gone up about 3 times in some cases. Give me a "bad deal" like that anytime. The way the owners keep managing to shoot themselves in both feet with probably more undiscovered loopholes all over the place, I'd grab the offer and then wait for the average 4th liner salary to shoot up to around 4 million by the time the next CBA rolls around.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:40 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
I get it's more about philosophy and principles for the players. Their mantra is "If we cave this time, what will happen 7-10 years down the road? Will it be down to 45%?"

As much as you want to take care of the rest, you also have to take care of yourselves. These guys will have a loss in net earnings. It's like some of them don't understand that.
Well if they are worried about 7-10 years down the road then they need to seriously consider cutting some teams. Also if they are worried about 7-10 years from now they are idiots. It's pro-sports their life-span is only 3-5 years anyhow. The ones gifted enough to be playing 7-10 years from now will be making and already have made more than enough to support their habits.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:48 PM
  #118
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Any new word on what is happening?

As an aside, I've found a plethora of other, much more proactive things to do with my time, like renovating my garage and getting things done around the house that have needed to be done for a while.

I'm not missing hockey a bit.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:02 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
And you can really see that happening? That would kill the NHL and make it quite possibly the biggest joke in North America.

I'll give in to the notion that sponsors would continue to back the NHL, but that's not going to matter. They'll be losing the fans and without the fans those sponsors will eventually give the league less or just outright leave.
Ridiculous notion that that would kill the NHL.

What would kill the NHL is if teams continue to bleed money so its not profitable.

Cancelling the season would not kill the NHL. Fans may find something else to do, and some may not return but the NHL will continue. Some teams may not survive it, but those same teams aren't going to survive with the current existing economic model anyways so whats the difference.

Cancel the season I say.

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11-15-2012, 01:11 PM
  #120
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Ridiculous notion that that would kill the NHL.

What would kill the NHL is if teams continue to bleed money so its not profitable.

Cancelling the season would not kill the NHL. Fans may find something else to do, and some may not return but the NHL will continue. Some teams may not survive it, but those same teams aren't going to survive with the current existing economic model anyways so whats the difference.

Cancel the season I say.
Spot on IMO. If it's not viable for the owners then there will be contraction, you know what that means? Less NHLPA jobs. The players can't see the forest for the trees.

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11-15-2012, 01:19 PM
  #121
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Any new word on what is happening?

As an aside, I've found a plethora of other, much more proactive things to do with my time, like renovating my garage and getting things done around the house that have needed to be done for a while.

I'm not missing hockey a bit.
This tweet sums up where were at

@reporterchris: Bill Daly says "I'm more discouraged now than I have been at any point in the process."

Things are definitely not looking good at the moment no plans to meet they're not even talking on the phone right now

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11-15-2012, 01:33 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Ridiculous notion that that would kill the NHL.

What would kill the NHL is if teams continue to bleed money so its not profitable.

Cancelling the season would not kill the NHL. Fans may find something else to do, and some may not return but the NHL will continue. Some teams may not survive it, but those same teams aren't going to survive with the current existing economic model anyways so whats the difference.

Cancel the season I say.
Might not kill the NHL, but it will definitely hurt. Going into te lockout there were really only 5-6 teams bleeding money. Coming out if we miss an entire season I think it would be safe to say that number will be back to around 10-12 teams bleeding money.

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11-15-2012, 01:58 PM
  #123
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Might not kill the NHL, but it will definitely hurt. Going into te lockout there were really only 5-6 teams bleeding money. Coming out if we miss an entire season I think it would be safe to say that number will be back to around 10-12 teams bleeding money.
It's a lot more than 5-6 teams "bleeding money". Some may not be bleeding to death, but an owners win here means profit vs loss.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:09 PM
  #124
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If I were the NHL I'd set a drop dead date for mid December and watch the PA implode.

50/50 + make partial is the best deal they are ever going to get. I'm sure if Fehr would stop dicking around with the financial framework the league would be willing to give a little on contracting.

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11-15-2012, 02:14 PM
  #125
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This tweet sums up where were at

@reporterchris: Bill Daly says "I'm more discouraged now than I have been at any point in the process."

Things are definitely not looking good at the moment no plans to meet they're not even talking on the phone right now
meh, always darkest before dawn

more posturing IMO

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