Because Campbell is better defensively while putting up more points?
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks
Still waiting on an argument for Campbell being better defensively.
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Originally Posted by chrisx101
Still waiting for one rational or statistical argument that suggests why Campbell is better defensively? Seriously it was one of the reasons half the thread picked Campbell i just cant figure out how they came to that conclusion considering Campbell has been the most defensively sheltered #1D i have ever seen.
Still waiting for one rational or statistical argument that suggests why Campbell is better defensively? Seriously it was one of the reasons half the thread picked Campbell i just cant figure out how they came to that conclusion considering Campbell has been the most defensively sheltered #1D i have ever seen.
Let me start by saying that I think Phaneuf is better defensively, and I actually picked him overall for this poll, but there are a couple things Campbell does better defensively. The most glaring advantage Campbell has is in transition defense. Phaneuf has decent top speed as a defender, but below average acceleration. This causes him to get behind the play on breakouts quite often, and be out of position with poor gap control. After the play has settled into the defensive zone I would give Phaneuf the advantage, especially in front of the net, but I would much rather have Campbell defending an odd man rush than Phaneuf.
First off, I do agree that Phaneuf is better defensively. That said, I think those numbers are a little misleading. You can't point to the minutes a defenseman plays without addressing what his teammate situation is and how well he does in said minutes.
As far as teammates goes, it's clear that he and Gunnar are the only guys on that blueline who are remotely capable of shutting down other teams' top players. Gardiner and Liles are purely offensive defenseman (at the moment), and Komi, Franson, and Schenn are all third liners when they're even in the lineup. The Leafs were forced to give Phaneuf very tough minutes because there was really no alternative, not because he was excelling in them. And really, he wasn't excelling. His 2.80 GA ON/60 is pretty bad, even for players facing that level of competition (Campbell's, by comparison, was 1.87). Only Duncan Keith posted a worse GA ON/60 while facing a similar level of competition. Goaltending was surely a factor in this (as it was for Keith), but some of the blame lies with Phaneuf and his propensity for mistakes. I think on a team with Weaver and Garrison, two very underrated shutdown guys, he probably wouldn't be seeing top competition or top 2 PK time either. He'd likely be in the exact position Campbell was in.
As for the OP's question, I'm going with Campbell, but it's close. I think his advantage in playmaking, skating, and as a PP QB outweighs Phaneuf's better shot, physicality, and defensive play. Campbell's playmaking is truly elite, that's what pushes him over the top for me. Only Karlsson has him beat in that respect, IMO. Also, Phaneuf's physicality is somewhat of a negative for me, because he can be irresponsible with his physical play and really shoot himself in the foot. When you've got a defenseman registering over 200 hits per season, it's a safe bet that he's taking himself out of position chasing those hits. When his team is counting on him to carry the defensive load, Phaneuf needs to learn to dial down the hitting by being more selective. I think that would go a long way towards improving his defensive play.
First of all I appreciate the attempt at an argument for Campbell. I know Florida's defensive core is better, but that does not explain why Campbell's apparent defensive prowess was used in such limited situations. Unless you believe that Weaver, Garrison and Kulikov are all better defensively than Phaneuf. In which case, Florida would have arguably the best defensive core in the league. GA ON/60 is not really useful without context. For example, 9 of the top 11 defenders this season in that statistic were on the Blues, Kings or Red Wings (1st, 2nd and 7th best teams in goals against this year). 5 of the Blues 6 defenders are in the top 14, with the 6th ranked 33rd. The Blues defense is good, but it's not that good. It's no secret that the Leafs not only had terrible goaltending, but also played a run and gun style of defense.
Let me start by saying that I think Phaneuf is better defensively, and I actually picked him overall for this poll, but there are a couple things Campbell does better defensively. The most glaring advantage Campbell has is in transition defense. Phaneuf has decent top speed as a defender, but below average acceleration. This causes him to get behind the play on breakouts quite often, and be out of position with poor gap control. After the play has settled into the defensive zone I would give Phaneuf the advantage, especially in front of the net, but I would much rather have Campbell defending an odd man rush than Phaneuf.
Agree or disagree?
Agreed but thats more of a skating comparison than a defensive. Phaneuf has the better tools and awareness defensively, while offensively is only better than Campbell in his shot. Campbell is the better skater, better offensive awareness and better passer. Physicality obviously goes to Phaneuf. Its close and i choose Phaneuf by a bit, just bothered by the "Campbell is clearly better defensively so i pick him" with no merit behind the argument.
Agreed but thats more of a skating comparison than a defensive. Phaneuf has the better tools and awareness defensively, while offensively is only better than Campbell in his shot. Campbell is the better skater, better offensive awareness and better passer. Physicality obviously goes to Phaneuf. Its close and i choose Phaneuf by a bit, just bothered by the "Campbell is clearly better defensively so i pick him" with no merit behind the argument.
Transition defense is a huge part of being an effective defenseman.
It's no secret that the Leafs not only had terrible goaltending, but also played a run and gun style of defense.
