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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:00 PM
  #951
NYRFAN218
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Bill Daly says "I'm more discouraged now than I have been at any point in the process." ... http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...179525031.html

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11-15-2012, 01:05 PM
  #952
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heres the only thing i care about. this is likely to be the only season we can have Richards, Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, MDZ, Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, and Lundqvist all on the same team. unless somehow the contracts all get extended a year, but the way i understand it, this 1 year disappears, no payment, but you lose the year on their contract. That ****ing sucks for us because this was a legitimate chance to win the cup. Dare I say, the Rangers were poised to rampage through the east. Every single team of consequence around us got significantly weaker, and the Rangers got a **** ton better.

This would be a devastating loss to this franchise. we NEED hockey this season. I want a ****ing cup god damn it.

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11-15-2012, 01:13 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
December 10th, another home date for the Rangers, is off the schedule now. They moved the show they had on the 11th to the 10th that way they could prepare for the Sandy concert on the 12th (which also eliminated another home date). If they do start in early December (which I doubt anyway), the Rangers are down two possible dates for home games.
Looks like they are preparing for a cancellation through Dec. 15th..

The players have reached a place where no concession on the part of the owners will be enough to make up for the salaries that they are missing right now. So congratulations NHL and NHLPA, no matter what the outcome ends up being, you've both lost. This might sound like an oversimplified viewpoint, but both the players' and owners' repuations and incomes have been damaged by this in a way that won't be reversed overnight. Many workers have lost their jobs or are struggling to support their families due to both parties unwillingness to compromise. I'm not sure that my ethics will allow me to support the NHL ever again, and this is coming from someone who considers the Rangers one of the most important parts of my life. Regardless of the outcome, this is truly heartbreaking.

Serious question: When's the last time that either negotiating party even mentioned the fans? If the players were fighting for the health of the league, you'd see them reaching out to fans and thanking them for their support as they fight the good fight. But that's not what's happening, because the players know they don't have our best interests at heart. The fans are ignored throughout the entire process and then just expected to come back like sheep? No thanks.

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11-15-2012, 01:32 PM
  #954
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Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
November 14 2011 in the NBA. David Stern warns the season is "now in jeopardy." 12 days after a deal was in place.

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11-15-2012, 01:34 PM
  #955
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To paraphrase Herbert Stein: "When a thing can't continue, it won't."

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11-15-2012, 01:35 PM
  #956
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Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
November 14 2011 in the NBA. David Stern warns the season is "now in jeopardy." 12 days after a deal was in place.
The NBA is also a league that was not willing to cancel an entire season, let alone be stupid enough to head towards canceling two.

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11-15-2012, 01:41 PM
  #957
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The NBA is also a league that was not willing to cancel an entire season, let alone be stupid enough to head towards canceling two.
They've had a salary cap for as long as I can remember, so they would have no reason to cancel a season.

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11-15-2012, 02:06 PM
  #958
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Love hearing talk about cancelling the season.

A deal cannot take place until both sides believe the season is on the verge of being cancelled.

We still have a bit more time before the sides start to play their final cards.

We probably need a date in print.

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11-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
They've had a salary cap for as long as I can remember, so they would have no reason to cancel a season.
The cap is certainly not a hard cap. And there are all sorts of rules in play. Also, unlke the NHL owners, the NBA owners had no problem paying all of the existing contracts.

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11-15-2012, 02:14 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The cap is certainly not a hard cap. And there are all sorts of rules in play. Also, unlke the NHL owners, the NBA owners had no problem paying all of the existing contracts.
OK, but in 2005 the season was cancelled before the PA would even discuss the idea of a cap, so I don't see it as comparable.

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11-15-2012, 02:16 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
heres the only thing i care about. this is likely to be the only season we can have Richards, Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, MDZ, Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, and Lundqvist all on the same team. unless somehow the contracts all get extended a year, but the way i understand it, this 1 year disappears, no payment, but you lose the year on their contract. That ****ing sucks for us because this was a legitimate chance to win the cup. Dare I say, the Rangers were poised to rampage through the east. Every single team of consequence around us got significantly weaker, and the Rangers got a **** ton better.

This would be a devastating loss to this franchise. we NEED hockey this season. I want a ****ing cup god damn it.
This is my biggest concern too. Been following this team for a long time as they've been maneuvering in attempts to get a lineup like the one they have now and we, the NYR fans, are about to lose this team's best shot at a cup in a long, long time over some petty economic dispute. Plus, if the cap goes down when hockey returns the team is going to need to make some big moves. It frustrates me to no end.

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11-15-2012, 02:20 PM
  #962
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This is my biggest concern too. Been following this team for a long time as they've been maneuvering in attempts to get a lineup like the one they have now and we, the NYR fans, are about to lose this team's best shot at a cup in a long, long time over some petty economic dispute. Plus, if the cap goes down when hockey returns the team is going to need to make some big moves. It frustrates me to no end.
I really can't see cancelling the season as a legitimate option. Bettman and Fehr, while prone to work stoppages, are well-educated and experienced leaders. If they have even a shred of rationality, they'll see there is far more to lose by cancelling the season than meeting each other half-way. The gap isn't even that large.

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11-15-2012, 02:31 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I really can't see cancelling the season as a legitimate option. Bettman and Fehr, while prone to work stoppages, are well-educated and experienced leaders. If they have even a shred of rationality, they'll see there is far more to lose by cancelling the season than meeting each other half-way. The gap isn't even that large.
I agree with you. I don't think they'll end up getting the whole season cancelled but I don't think it's impossible either.

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11-15-2012, 02:37 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I really can't see cancelling the season as a legitimate option. Bettman and Fehr, while prone to work stoppages, are well-educated and experienced leaders. If they have even a shred of rationality, they'll see there is far more to lose by cancelling the season than meeting each other half-way. The gap isn't even that large.
I feel the same way. I think the entire spectrum of conflicting reports and musings from so-called "in the know" people are just noise. Bettman and Fehr are stubborn SOB's, but I have to think that both have nothing to gain from another lost season. 2004-2005 was a very different scenario.

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11-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I feel the same way. I think the entire spectrum of conflicting reports and musings from so-called "in the know" people are just noise. Bettman and Fehr are stubborn SOB's, but I have to think that both have nothing to gain from another lost season. 2004-2005 was a very different scenario.
Yeah, in February 2005, when the season was cancelled, the gap was bigger than it was at any point in negotiations this time.

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11-15-2012, 06:17 PM
  #966
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A good read on the three collusion charges in baseball in the 1980s for those of you who think the owners should be able to "control themselves".

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/docs/Br...r_Blunders.pdf

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:33 PM
  #967
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Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA Can confirm what @aaronward_nhl first reported, that Gary Bettman suggested to NHLPA's Don Fehr that two sides take 2-week moratorium

#CBA Fehr told Bettman he'd like to talk to his membership about it. NHLPA plans on responding tmrw

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11-15-2012, 07:47 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA Can confirm what @aaronward_nhl first reported, that Gary Bettman suggested to NHLPA's Don Fehr that two sides take 2-week moratorium

#CBA Fehr told Bettman he'd like to talk to his membership about it. NHLPA plans on responding tmrw
How is that possibly a good idea?

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11-15-2012, 08:01 PM
  #969
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How is that possibly a good idea?
Clear the air after Fehr and his party showed no desire to actually solve this thing

Send message to Fehr and his buddies that NHL isn't gonna tolerate the showing up late garbage and the needless long water trips

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11-15-2012, 08:07 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Clear the air after Fehr and his party showed no desire to actually solve this thing

Send message to Fehr and his buddies that NHL isn't gonna tolerate the showing up late garbage and the needless long water trips
Tolerate? Is Fehr a baby and Bettman is his dad? Fehr doesn't work for him, and its Fehr that came in from Toronto to keep meeting Bettman at his job. Why doesn't Bettman fly his ass up to Toronto for a change other then to go to the HoF


Bettman is trying to kill this league anyway he can, all so he billion owners can get a few more bucks. ****ing joke. Bettman won't even agree to a mediator while the NHLPA would, .. so who is showing no desire to solve this again?

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11-15-2012, 08:13 PM
  #971
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Let it burn...

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:19 PM
  #972
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I'm losing hope here guys.

I don't know. I don't think we'll have hockey this season.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:21 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA Can confirm what @aaronward_nhl first reported, that Gary Bettman suggested to NHLPA's Don Fehr that two sides take 2-week moratorium

#CBA Fehr told Bettman he'd like to talk to his membership about it. NHLPA plans on responding tmrw
Yup! Because if there's one thing they have plenty of (besides $ obviously) it's time.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:24 PM
  #974
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Series of Daly quotes on league initiated hiatus: "We have made repeated moves in the Players' direction with absolutely no reciprocation."

Daly: "unfortunately, we have determined we are involved with Union leadership that has no genuine interest in reaching an agreement."

Daly: "Regardless of what we propose or how we suggest to compromise the answer is "no," At some pt you have to say "enough is enough".

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11-15-2012, 08:39 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Series of Daly quotes on league initiated hiatus: "We have made repeated moves in the Players' direction with absolutely no reciprocation."

Daly: "unfortunately, we have determined we are involved with Union leadership that has no genuine interest in reaching an agreement."

Daly: "Regardless of what we propose or how we suggest to compromise the answer is "no," At some pt you have to say "enough is enough".
They're just trying to pressure the lesser players into crying "uncle"

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