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Hockey At 9:35AM? Western Conference Finals Rematch Marlies @ Barons 11/13 9:35AM MDT

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11-15-2012, 01:40 AM
  #326
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i am starting to think a lot of people on this thread no only under value the competition in the AHL, but really dont have a clue that the AHL is a completely different game than the AHL
You're absolutely right, I have no clue about what you said.

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11-15-2012, 02:31 AM
  #327
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No, on the basis of what I've noted of Nelsons body of work this year, and last, these players are being warehoused for the year and not learning a damned thing. Not being challenged, not being made to be interested.
Their performance, demeanor, when they show up, suggests boredom more than anything else.
If the coach was truly offering up enthralling learning opportunities they'd be captivated in how to springboard that into being better players. For instance how Baertshi and Horak are buying in in Abbotsford. Show young people a knowledgeable mentor that they can learn a lot from and I suspect they jump at the opportunity. Especially these Oiler kids, these are good kids.

I'm not seeing the best hockey from these young Oilers right now, I'm seeing their worst. That as I mention is cause for concern over 13 games.

Hall is excluded from that obviously because he hasn't played many games and is still feeling his way.
You are overreacting and taking your role of devils advocate way too far. Step back from the ledge, you're more emotional than my pregnant wife. The kids are alright.

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11-15-2012, 07:15 AM
  #328
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You are overreacting and taking your role of devils advocate way too far. Step back from the ledge, you're more emotional than my pregnant wife. The kids are alright.
I'm really not. Its just an internet discussion. In a lockout year. With next to nothing at all to talk about on a hockeyboard.

At what point will the kids be expected to win hockey games? At either level.

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11-15-2012, 12:25 PM
  #329
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I'm really not. Its just an internet discussion. In a lockout year. With next to nothing at all to talk about on a hockeyboard.

At what point will the kids be expected to win hockey games? At either level.
When their team isn't giving up 1.3 PPGA a game and when they don't have a defense full of slugs who can't move the puck behind them? My one big hope is that since we are building our D to be a good skating D with size that we won't be seeing these kinds of dreadful performances from our D anymore. Schultz, Petry, Smid, Klefbom, and Marincin are all at least good skaters.

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11-15-2012, 03:51 PM
  #330
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Here's what I see: Schultz, Eberle, RNH and Hartikainen have put up more than 50% of the teams points. Schultz has been in on 47% of the team's goals. I don't think we can rate Hall based on 5 games coming off surgery.

I doubt highly that any other team in the AHL is so top heavy in terms of scoring. Clearly these guys are pulling their weight. Beyond that there are a lot players not doing their share. And as BBO mentioned the PK is beyond awful right now. Roy and Danis are tired for 32nd in the league in SV%. The reasons for the lack of success of the Barons have little to do with the Oilers playing down there.

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11-15-2012, 04:40 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Copperhead View Post
Here's what I see: Schultz, Eberle, RNH and Hartikainen have put up more than 50% of the teams points. Schultz has been in on 47% of the team's goals. I don't think we can rate Hall based on 5 games coming off surgery.

I doubt highly that any other team in the AHL is so top heavy in terms of scoring. Clearly these guys are pulling their weight. Beyond that there are a lot players not doing their share. And as BBO mentioned the PK is beyond awful right now. Roy and Danis are tired for 32nd in the league in SV%. The reasons for the lack of success of the Barons have little to do with the Oilers playing down there.
While our kids could be playing better (I'm not lumping Schultz into that group as his production speaks for itself) I agree that it's the secondary guys that simply aren't getting the job done. Some of that might be due to a lack of lines staying together for very long and some might be from the fact that unless Schultz or Marincin are moving the puck our breakouts stink. IMO you keep the Swedes and Harski together for a lengthy stretch as well as Arcobello and Pitlick. We need to start seeing some production from these guys (even Harski now that he isn't on the top line).

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11-15-2012, 05:44 PM
  #332
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I'm really not. Its just an internet discussion. In a lockout year. With next to nothing at all to talk about on a hockeyboard.

At what point will the kids be expected to win hockey games? At either level.
yeah you are

the kids are already winning games by themselves, they did it last year a few times ... not as much as we would have liked obviously, but that shouldn't be expected of an 18. 19 and 21 year olds.... i find it very, very difficult to believe you *actually* are concerned about them, and not just stirring the pot like you seem to enjoy doing

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11-15-2012, 06:45 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
When their team isn't giving up 1.3 PPGA a game and when they don't have a defense full of slugs who can't move the puck behind them? My one big hope is that since we are building our D to be a good skating D with size that we won't be seeing these kinds of dreadful performances from our D anymore. Schultz, Petry, Smid, Klefbom, and Marincin are all at least good skaters.
So not anytime soon then at least at the NHL level if the lockout ends

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11-15-2012, 07:06 PM
  #334
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So not anytime soon then at least at the NHL level if the lockout ends
Not necessarily. Whitney, Petry, and J. Schultz are all fairly good puck movers

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11-15-2012, 10:31 PM
  #335
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So not anytime soon then at least at the NHL level if the lockout ends
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Not necessarily. Whitney, Petry, and J. Schultz are all fairly good puck movers
Yup, and both Smid and N. Schultz can get the puck out of their own zones and don't get passed like they're standing still 3-4 times a game.

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11-16-2012, 01:24 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm really not. Its just an internet discussion. In a lockout year. With next to nothing at all to talk about on a hockeyboard.

At what point will the kids be expected to win hockey games? At either level.
On one hand I understand your concern. OKC should be winning games. They should be the best team in the league and they aren't. The kids are a reason for that. On the other hand, I can't help but feel like you are expecting perhaps too much. Schultz and Eberle are 1, 2 in league scoring and RNH is 9th. This is a team that has scored 38 goals this year. Schultz, Eberle, RNH and Hall have scored 21 of those goals. That is 55% of the goals this team is scoring from 4 players. What concerns me with OKC isn't those four. What concerns me this year, and what concerned me last year is that none of the other forward prospects on this team seem to be able to have any offensive success once they get to the next level.


Hartikainen seems to be doing well, but other than that it is a disturbing lack of success for a lot of players who were expected to put up at least some offensive numbers at the next level.

Pitlick went from a PPG+ player in the WHL to 23 points in 60 odd games last year and now just 2 assists in 12 games this year.

Hamilton has had an even more drastic decline in offensive production transitioning to the pro level.

Lander went from being a respectable producer in the SEL to absolutely zero in the AHL this year.

Ryan Martindale was a top 15 point producer in the OHL, couldn't even crack the AHL team last year and this year can hardly stay in the lineup.

Vande Velde was a solid scorer in college, is nothing more than a 4th liner in the AHL.

Hell, Paajarvi who I have made no bones about being a huge fan of in the past has absolutely stagnated.

For all the praise that Nelson received last year as an AHL coach, there has been shockingly little development in terms of offense from all but one of the Oilers second tier forward prospect group. So either Nelson does not know how to develop offensive talent, or the Oilers still suck at drafting.

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11-16-2012, 08:21 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
yeah you are

the kids are already winning games by themselves, they did it last year a few times ... not as much as we would have liked obviously, but that shouldn't be expected of an 18. 19 and 21 year olds.... i find it very, very difficult to believe you *actually* are concerned about them, and not just stirring the pot like you seem to enjoy doing
No, I think this is unfair. We all have expressed our frustration with the Oilers over the years and if anything yes theres going to be some impatience expressed with the development of our star line.

Earlier I was stating more benefit of doubt that the kids likely just weren't into it. That was before I had an opportunity to watch some of the games. When you watch, and see star players not comprehending NZ pressure, locks, coverage, and not knowing how to break that contain the frustration mounts. Especially when defensively the same players offer token resistance.

I'll maintain that with the best Defencemne in the AHL, certainly the most offensive, Schultz, that this line is a lock for high offensive production. Its really a knock out PP. Again its the 5 on 5 play thats the real concern. 4 players like this put together should be accomplishing results in all circumstances.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:28 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
On one hand I understand your concern. OKC should be winning games. They should be the best team in the league and they aren't. The kids are a reason for that. On the other hand, I can't help but feel like you are expecting perhaps too much. Schultz and Eberle are 1, 2 in league scoring and RNH is 9th. This is a team that has scored 38 goals this year. Schultz, Eberle, RNH and Hall have scored 21 of those goals. That is 55% of the goals this team is scoring from 4 players. What concerns me with OKC isn't those four. What concerns me this year, and what concerned me last year is that none of the other forward prospects on this team seem to be able to have any offensive success once they get to the next level.


Hartikainen seems to be doing well, but other than that it is a disturbing lack of success for a lot of players who were expected to put up at least some offensive numbers at the next level.

Pitlick went from a PPG+ player in the WHL to 23 points in 60 odd games last year and now just 2 assists in 12 games this year.

Hamilton has had an even more drastic decline in offensive production transitioning to the pro level.

Lander went from being a respectable producer in the SEL to absolutely zero in the AHL this year.

Ryan Martindale was a top 15 point producer in the OHL, couldn't even crack the AHL team last year and this year can hardly stay in the lineup.

Vande Velde was a solid scorer in college, is nothing more than a 4th liner in the AHL.

Hell, Paajarvi who I have made no bones about being a huge fan of in the past has absolutely stagnated.

For all the praise that Nelson received last year as an AHL coach, there has been shockingly little development in terms of offense from all but one of the Oilers second tier forward prospect group. So either Nelson does not know how to develop offensive talent, or the Oilers still suck at drafting.
Consider though that our stars are often put together for a reason. That reason being that when seperated they have trouble producing similar results. You'll remember that the Oilers of lore had their offensive stars separated into two scoring lines. Harder to shutdown, but with players that played well with others and maintained production in different configurations.
But when you put all the crown jewels in one basket you can't help but have some trouble producing on other lines. Of course all this changes once Yakupov is in the picture, and with Hemsky and Gagner back in the fold.

I would think we can't help but have success but its an interminable time waiting for it. Or just feels that way.

I guess the timing of the lockout and not seeing all our goodies on one stage is frustrating in its own way.

Frankly as far as the other players I've regularly had trouble discerning the offensive upside. I just don't see it. I've never though much of say Pitlick or Landers offensive abilities. Paajarvi I'm pretty much resigned on by now.

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