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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Mark Recchi's advice to players is to sign CBA now

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:35 PM
  #326
InjuredChoker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Mario Lemieux retired because of the clutching and grabbing that was allowed during the dead puck era. Only reason he suited up in 95-96 was because of the league's promised obstruction crackdown (note how much higher the per game scoring rates were that year than in the previous and next seasons). That was abandoned in 96-97, which is why he retired at the end of it.

I'd provide a link, but newspaper articles from 1997 aren't easily available on-line, if they're even on-line at all.
Yes, he mentioned this in he's excellent biography, Over time.


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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I've taken no license with that statement.

They said they were misinformed when they said they were rallying around issues that are not actual issues.

Crosby said -yesterday- he was fighting because it was ridiculous that young guys were being asked to have their entry level deals extended. Entry level deals are being reduced. When he's fighting to stop the opposite of what's been proposed, he's misinformed.

Ovechkin has been going on about a 13% rollback long past the time that was off the table. He's tilting at a windmill. He's misinformed.

If this is not Fehr's fault, who's fault is it? There is nobody else.
Maybe owners had given new offer that extends EL-deals, that we are not aware of?

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11-15-2012, 02:39 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Maybe owners had given new offer that extends EL-deals, that we are not aware of?
I believe in the first proposal by NHL the ELC was 5 years but in the latest proposal it was lowered to 2 years. So when Crosby said on Monday that the NHL looks to have longer ELC's, I believe he was mistaken. Well atleast not up-to-date with NHL's latest offer.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:43 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
It couldn't be that Ovechkin and Crosby were confused / misinformed.

If I had to lay blame for misinformation, given it was either a hockey player or a union head with decades of experience, I'd blame the player.
Fehr's job is to inform them. If they are misinformed, he either hasn't been clear enough or is doing so deliberately. Either way, he's bears singular responsibility if the membership doesn't understand the issues.


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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
I was referring to how Fehr structures his dealings with the PA, you laid out some pretty specific details.
That would require a lot of links and I don't have the time at work.

If you'd like to look them up I can tell you where to start from memory,

the method by which he gets information to the players came from an Ovechkin interview with a Russian reporter, as well as several leaked mass emails

the method by which he does strategic planning before presenting it to any party (sits in his office with his brother) is from a friedman article. Not 30 thoughts, iirc

that its a carousel of players in these meetings comes from Friedman, Cox and any TSN article announcing who's present on any particular day

and that there's no #1 player in the PA, such as Linden, comes from Cox, but would otherwise be obvious considering there's a carousel of players in these negotiations, strategy is formulated at Fehr's office without their presence and nobody from the PA apart from Fehr's brother has been at every meeting

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:46 PM
  #329
Gobias Industries
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Fehr's job is to inform them. If they are misinformed, he either hasn't been clear enough or is doing so deliberately. Either way, he's bears singular responsibility if the membership doesn't understand the issues.
Disagreed.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:53 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
No, NHLPA members are not working in a coal mine 12 hrs a day, given only 5 holidays a year, a minimal healthplan, and no expenses. They're doing ok... (just trust me on this)
It was not my intention to suggest that the players are hurting. IMO the current structure has limited the earning potential of the best players, the biggest stars, the money makers, while artificially inflating the middle of the pack. The front loaded deals etc. were a result of teams being handcuffed when it came to signing their star players. Teams desperate not to end up with a star players they couldn't fit under the cap started locking up young players earlier to get a better deal, inflating the money and term on RFA contracts. In short, the NHL's system ended up working against them and costing them money and took money out of the hands of the guys we're paying to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Mario Lemieux retired because of the clutching and grabbing that was allowed during the dead puck era. Only reason he suited up in 95-96 was because of the league's promised obstruction crackdown (note how much higher the per game scoring rates were that year than in the previous and next seasons). That was abandoned in 96-97, which is why he retired at the end of it.

I'd provide a link, but newspaper articles from 1997 aren't easily available on-line, if they're even on-line at all.
Thank you.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-15-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 02:58 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Disagreed.
How in the hell can it not be Fehr's fault if in fact the players are being misinformed? Where are they expected to get their information from?

Sheesh...

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:02 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
How in the hell can it not be Fehr's fault if in fact the players are being misinformed? Where are they expected to get their information from?

Sheesh...
Sorry, should have been more specific, I disagree that he bears "singular responsibility".

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11-15-2012, 03:05 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Sorry, should have been more specific, I disagree that he bears "singular responsibility".

OK, so I will try again. He is the head of the union for crying out loud. Who else shares responsibility for any issues that may or may not be fully communicated to the players?

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:13 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
OK, so I will try again. He is the head of the union for crying out loud. Who else shares responsibility for any issues that may or may not be fully communicated to the players?
I had setup an example that a player might mispeak or not fully understand an issue. That is entirely reasonable given the size of the PA and the complexity of the issues.

The responsibility also is on the player speaking, moreso I'd say.

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11-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
OK, so I will try again. He is the head of the union for crying out loud. Who else shares responsibility for any issues that may or may not be fully communicated to the players?
Players are accountable for how they understand the information presented to them. The onus is on them to ask questions or seek clarification to ensure that they are understanding the information that's available.

It's impossible for Fehr to go around to 700+ PA members and test them on the issues until he's satisfied that each player understands them correctly. And even if he didn't have 700+ members to deal with, in day to day life no matter what you do or who you are, the onus is on us as individuals to understand what's around us by asking questions, getting examples, getting feedback from our peers, etc. No one is entitled to be spoon fed everything.

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11-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
OK, so I will try again. He is the head of the union for crying out loud. Who else shares responsibility for any issues that may or may not be fully communicated to the players?
Crosby has been in a lot, if not most or all, of the recent meetings. I think it's far more likely he misspoke (maybe he meant RFA being extended?) than he is being misinformed.

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11-15-2012, 03:21 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Which makes his comments all the more disingenuous IMO.

If this is what he believes, why didn't he make these statements in 2004? Or in 1994?

Why didn't he speak up when Sergei Federov signed that ridiculous offer sheet with Carolina? Why didn't he speak up when Ilya Kovalchuk signed that joke of a contract?

Recchi has no skin in this game, and when he did, he didn't have the balls to speak up.

I just think it is real easy to throw stones into the fray when you aren't in it. And it shows a lack of respect for the guys actually going through it right now.
YOu're kidding right?

It's the same reason I bet a ton of current players who want to just sign and play don't speak up now. They'd get eviscerated by the LOUD minority that make up the rest of the PA.


Last edited by MtlPenFan: 11-15-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 03:28 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
Uhhh...

The last 12 World Series winners were 9 different teams.
There were 3 repeat winners.

The Giants won twice before that they won in 1954

The Red Sox won twice before that they won in 1918

The Cardinals won twice before that they won in 1982

The MLB has changed even though your opinion of it hasn't.
Camouflaged by the addition of the wildcard.

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11-15-2012, 03:31 PM
  #339
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My guess is this thing will be settled by December 15th or so. I think Bettman will give up one more provision to get the PA back to the table, and if everything isn't all hashed out by then season is over and the next deal the PA gets offered is a much worse one. Fehr and Bettman being at the head of each side made sure this thing would not be about honest negotiation. I'm not sure if the owners start with such a ridiculous deal if they don't have to contend with a guy like Fehr on the other side. Things seem to be moving closer and closer with each periodic cancellation of games.

I'd imagine the key issues will obviously be linkage, then contract rights, then realignment, and then work on ancillary things. I think both sides are very much just posturing and seeing if the other side will break down before games are cancelled in December.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:39 PM
  #340
Butch 19
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Camouflaged by the addition of the wildcard.
The #8 seed Kings think this is just awesome!!

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:41 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
The #8 seed Kings think this is just awesome!!
A ton of teams have always made the playoffs in hockey. This isn't anything new.

The purists lost their mind when they added the wildcard in baseball. Had they not done that, it would literally be the same teams making it to the playoffs over and over again, with a slight variation here and there.

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11-15-2012, 03:43 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
How in the hell can it not be Fehr's fault if in fact the players are being misinformed? Where are they expected to get their information from?

Sheesh...
You are wrong because the league has 700 players. Fehr makes the information available. He can't single-handedly call every single player with every single update. It's also up to the players to read the material thoroughly.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:46 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Camouflaged by the addition of the wildcard.
The Wild Card has been around longer than 12 years.

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11-15-2012, 03:53 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
I had setup an example that a player might mispeak or not fully understand an issue. That is entirely reasonable given the size of the PA and the complexity of the issues.

The responsibility also is on the player speaking, moreso I'd say.
If the players don't fully understand an issue, that's on Fehr.

As has been mentioned, Crosby has been as involved and interested as pretty much anyone. If HE doesn't know extension of entry level deals, which was proposed 5 months ago, is the exact opposite of what the league wants now, Fehr isn't communicating the realities of the issues between the PA and the NHL.

If, I don't know, Kris Letang, who hasn't involved himself whatsoever in this collective bargaining stuff, didn't know that something had changed since 5 months ago with respect to what the league was proposing, I suppose it could be argued that he doesn't know because he isn't paying attention, which is on him.

Crosby's as involved as anybody. If Crosby is publicaly rallying to stop the NHL from implementing the opposite of what it wants to implement, there's a serious problem with what Fehr is and isn't telling the membership.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:54 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
The Wild Card has been around longer than 12 years.
I'm well aware of how long it's been around.

It was put in place specifically to allow smaller market teams a chance to have a chance.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:54 PM
  #346
Qward
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I just hope hockey doesn't turn into basketball where the league may be 30 teams, but in reality there are like 4

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11-15-2012, 03:58 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
I just hope hockey doesn't turn into basketball where the league may be 30 teams, but in reality there are like 4
It can't.

The reason basketball is like that is because there are fewer unique talents, in a sport where they're much more influential as they can play more than three-quarters of the game.

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11-15-2012, 04:02 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I'm well aware of how long it's been around.

It was put in place specifically to allow smaller market teams a chance to have a chance.
No it wasn't. It was put in place to add more playoff games and make teams and the league more money

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:33 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
And because Recchi doesn't agree with the PA strategy, they have to undermine his position as though it can't be objective. Why would he try to take the owners side just because he wants to or is an owner? Phillips comment suggests that Recchi has something to gain for taking the owner's side. But what does he gain? Are the owners going to give him a big fat cheque because he disagreed with the PA strategy? And Recchi didn't actually side with the owners. It's not like he said one side is right or wrong. I guess the PA has a problem because a) he doesn't agree with their strategy and b) former player doesn't trash the owners like the guys who still depend on those owners to sign their paycheques.

Yes, he must be the enemy guys.

The PA has been doing this all along, questioning the integrity of anyone who disagrees with their position.

They did it through their shills, like how Allan Walsh tries to paint media members as league mouth pieces and through staunch union supporting players like Phillips like in this case.

What they are doing is pretty transparent.

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:36 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
I agree that Recchi should not have done this publicly. He does have a very valid opinion but doing this publicly underminds the players and helps the owners.
I would be surprised if Bettman, Daly, or Batterman bring this when negotiations eventually resume.
His comments will have no effect on negotiations.

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