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Israel-Gaza conflict huge escalation

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:57 PM
  #76
Shrimper
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Cisjordania lol. The Palestinians in Gaza seem to be pretty good at importing rockets, maybe they should use that energy on updating their civilization 1000 years.

If the Arabs gave 2 ***** about the plight of the Palestinians they would not force them to live in wretched refugee camps and would grant them citizenship to any number of Islamic nations.

The day Israel gives up Jerusalem is the day China gives up Tibet, America gives up Hawaii, and Russia gives up Siberia...Never.

Gaza should elect new leaders who won't store rockets and munitions in apartment complexes and use their own population as human shields. As far as I'm concerned Hamas is responsible for every casualty in this conflict.
Big difference between Jerusalem and Tibet in comparison to Hawaii and Siberia.

Other Arab nations will never attack Israel because of the ramifications from the "Western World" mostly US. Also;
  • Syria are currently pre-occupied with their civil war
  • Iraq is rebuilding and isn't a nation that would be capable of going to war, not that it would want to
  • Egypt are rebuilding after the elections and the removal of Mubarak and would prefer to be seen as a peaceful nation. I think that there was a report recently that said they were hoping to help Israel and Palestine work together.

Jordan and Lebanon could involve themselves if they wanted to but their military would be no match for Israel and it'd be pointless when I believe Lebanon has recently come out of a civil war.

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11-15-2012, 02:30 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
????
You are not aware...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STRATFOR November 15, 2012 | 1419 GMT
Egyptian media sources are reporting a buildup of army forces in the Sinai Peninsula along the border between Israel and Egypt, The Times of Israel reported Nov. 15, citing Walla News. Egyptian border guard units are also reportedly increasing their presence along the border.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STRATFOR November 15, 2012 | 1625 GMT
An Egyptian military source has denied reports that Egyptian armed forces are on alert in Sinai and have deployed additional troops to the border with the Gaza Strip, Ahram Online reported Nov. 15. The source said that though Sinai is a red line, the Egyptian military will not be dragged into a pre-planned war.
Although I don't have much faith in the Egyptian official declaration. These people can lie through the best of smiles if it fits their purpose.

Want it or not, Shrimper, the Muslim Brotherhood is asserting dominance in Egypt, and they have political ramification with the Hamas. I am not sure if they WANT to intervene and start a regionwide military conflict, but they can certainly make Israel sweat enough to yield some concession to Hamas, which would make the MB gain political points at home.

There is here an analysis trying to understand why the Hamas would have struck Tel Aviv. Interested?

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:21 PM
  #78
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-for-calm.html

Article: Assassinating The Chance For Calm

Quote:
The assassination of Jaabari was a pre-emptive strike against the possibility of a long term ceasefire. Netanyahu has acted with extreme irresponsibility. He has endangered the people of Israel and struck a real blow against the few important more pragmatic elements within Hamas. He has given another victory to those who seek our destruction, rather than strengthen those who are seeking to find a possibility to live side-by-side, not in peace, but in quiet.
A few people in this thread seem to be intent on painting the Israelis as "good guys" and the Palestinians as terrorists. Both sides are to blame. As mediator Folke Bernadotte once said, the core of the conflict lies in "the Arab world's continued rejection of the existence of a Jewish state, whatever its borders, and Israel's new 'philosophy', based on its increasing military strength, of ignoring the partition boundaries and conquering what additional territory it could.”

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11-15-2012, 03:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You don't seem to know much about the tonnage required to build a proper economy compared to the tonnage required to field guerilla warfare.

For the record: you really sounded like an ignorant redneck in that post.
And you sound like a Hamas apologist. The people of Gaza elected Hamas and now have to suffer the consequences.

How can we even talk about peace when Hamas does not recognize Israel as a nation? Of course there are going to be civilian casualties in Gaza. Why else would Hamas store munitions in residential areas? Hamas wants more civilian casualties.

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11-15-2012, 03:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
And you sound like a Hamas apologist. The people of Gaza elected Hamas and now have to suffer the consequences.
You know what you remember me of?

"People re-elected Obama, and we have to make them suffer the consequences"

Just as idiotic and antidemocratic.

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11-15-2012, 03:37 PM
  #81
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I feel for the innocent civilians in Gaza. It's sad that their leaders care more about waging war with Israel than the life of their own people.

Why does Hamas fire rockets into Israel? What good does that do?

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11-15-2012, 03:40 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman9172 View Post
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-for-calm.html

Article: Assassinating The Chance For Calm



A few people in this thread seem to be intent on painting the Israelis as "good guys" and the Palestinians as terrorists. Both sides are to blame. As mediator Folke Bernadotte once said, the core of the conflict lies in "the Arab world's continued rejection of the existence of a Jewish state, whatever its borders, and Israel's new 'philosophy', based on its increasing military strength, of ignoring the partition boundaries and conquering what additional territory it could.”

All they wanted was gaza and Israel gave that back to them. The other lands they have acquired over time have been acquired fairly over time, and you can not deny that.

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11-15-2012, 03:48 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
All they wanted was gaza and Israel gave that back to them. The other lands they have acquired over time have been acquired fairly over time, and you can not deny that.
Actually, Gaza AND Cisjordania (West Bank).

Both were conquered by Israel.

And... to be honest, the whole "acquired by the Jew fairly" is really a question much, much, much more complex than you give it credit for.

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11-15-2012, 03:53 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Actually, Gaza AND Cisjordania (West Bank).

Both were conquered by Israel.

And... to be honest, the whole "acquired by the Jew fairly" is really a question much, much, much more complex than you give it credit for.
Oh i completely agree with you on that one, because their is always more to the story then one portrays.

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11-15-2012, 03:59 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
Oh i completely agree with you on that one, because their is always more to the story then one portrays.
And I am not really blaming either sides for the overall problem. Both actually have good point regarding their legitimacy for the land.

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11-15-2012, 05:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
I feel for the innocent civilians in Gaza. It's sad that their leaders care more about waging war with Israel than the life of their own people.

Why does Hamas fire rockets into Israel? What good does that do?
Quote:
Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights.

Settlements are one of the major blockages to a peaceful and just resolution to Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians and other Arabs. The "roadmap" to peace calls on Israel to dismantle these settlements and to return the land to the rightful owners. Unfortunately, Israel continues to expand existing settlements and to build new ones.

Israeli settlers, who are known for their Jewish fundamentalism and desire to take the rest of Palestine (and perhaps even parts of other Arab lands) for Israel, usually carry large guns. They travel on specially built “bypass roads,” that now crisscross the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Palestinians are not allowed to use these roads.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/histo...ml#settlements

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:46 PM
  #87
Francesa
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
No bias there!

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11-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
No bias there!
You want to disprove any of these facts? I'm waiting.

I mean, is there or isn't there these colonies, established against the peace roadmap Israel has agreed upon? Are there more and more of these settlements? Are these settlers really fundamentalist Jews? Do they really have that much firepower?

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Big difference between Jerusalem and Tibet in comparison to Hawaii and Siberia.

Other Arab nations will never attack Israel because of the ramifications from the "Western World" mostly US. Also;
  • Syria are currently pre-occupied with their civil war
  • Iraq is rebuilding and isn't a nation that would be capable of going to war, not that it would want to
  • Egypt are rebuilding after the elections and the removal of Mubarak and would prefer to be seen as a peaceful nation. I think that there was a report recently that said they were hoping to help Israel and Palestine work together.

Jordan and Lebanon could involve themselves if they wanted to
but their military would be no match for Israel and it'd be pointless when I believe Lebanon has recently come out of a civil war.
I know this is OT, and not contributing to the discussion, but when I opened the thread and saw this out of the corner of my eye I thought it said Jordan and Lebron.

I was like why would basketball players get involved

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:32 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by hitman9172 View Post
As mediator Folke Bernadotte once said, the core of the conflict lies in "the Arab world's continued rejection of the existence of a Jewish state, whatever its borders, and Israel's new 'philosophy', based on its increasing military strength, of ignoring the partition boundaries and conquering what additional territory it could.”
I find it hard to cheer for the side that rejects Israel and requires its destruction as a condition of peace. Israel's 'philosophy' is self-preservation, not unabashed expansion. None of the militaries in the region, combined, are qualified to take on Israel in a gloves-off conflict. Israel could be far, far more militant than it is now and no one would be able to do a damn thing about it. I see a country that is tired of suicide bombers and rocket attacks, regardless of how nice they are.

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11-15-2012, 06:53 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
I find it hard to cheer for the side that rejects Israel and requires its destruction as a condition of peace. Israel's 'philosophy' is self-preservation, not unabashed expansion. None of the militaries in the region, combined, are qualified to take on Israel in a gloves-off conflict. Israel could be far, far more militant than it is now and no one would be able to do a damn thing about it. I see a country that is tired of suicide bombers and rocket attacks, regardless of how nice they are.
Hardly, especially when bombings and village massacres were attributed to the foundation of Israel, and the perpetrators are still looked highly upon there, some even elected as PM.

Not saying the Palestinians were innocent at all, but it's not that black and white.


Last edited by Gil Gunderson: 11-15-2012 at 07:01 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 06:55 PM
  #92
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"4 years ago, as the world was watching Obama make history, Israel broke a months-long ceasefire by targeted assassinations in Gaza. Weeks later, Operation Cast Lead killed 1400 Gazans (a 1/3 of them children) with such impunity that Israeli soldiers came out to give testimonies against their army. and TODAY, they are at it again, with no regard for civilian life: 20 air strikes, 15 dead, 118 wounded; all to get one man. If Israel is worried about Hamas terrorists, what is a better anti-terror policy? To close in 1 million people, and severely restrict their food, trade, crayons, notepads, cement, construction material? Air strikes? Or following the global consensus and international law and building peace?


Its ridiculous to shove that many Palestinians into Gaza and then blockade them from access to food, water, trade, and any access to the outside world. This is not a fair fight, and it hasn't been since 1948. I'm disgusted by the Canadian and American governments for continuously supporting Israel. I'm not condoning what Hamas does. But there are FAR better ways to deal with this than to essentially jail the Palestinian civilian population in a small piece of land, and then continuously bomb them without any regard for civilians. And they wonder why the Palestinians are so angry.

I don't know how any human can justify what Israel is doing. Their treatment of Palestinians has a lot of similarity to the Nazi regime's treatment of the Jews. North American mainstream media just doesn't report it.

The Palestinian/Jewish conflict has deep roots and has been going on for thousands of years. But what Israel has been doing to the Palestinian population since 1948 is utterly barbaric and inhumane. Its ridiculous not to expect the Palestinian population to fight back. Zero respect for anybody who supports what Israel is doing.

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11-15-2012, 07:09 PM
  #93
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what a clever analogy, israel = nazis.

the rest of your post doesn't get much better

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11-15-2012, 07:21 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
what a clever analogy, israel = nazis.

the rest of your post doesn't get much better
Zionism

People are just so paranoid and bitter towards Israel

Israel is our friend, Bibi is our friend

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11-15-2012, 08:28 PM
  #95
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BTW This isn't the first time someone has attempted to make similarities between Israel and the Nazis. NYR88 tried to do the same thing earlier in this here forum.

People need to understand it's not that simple.

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11-15-2012, 08:35 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
"4 years ago, as the world was watching Obama make history, Israel broke a months-long ceasefire by targeted assassinations in Gaza. Weeks later, Operation Cast Lead killed 1400 Gazans (a 1/3 of them children) with such impunity that Israeli soldiers came out to give testimonies against their army. and TODAY, they are at it again, with no regard for civilian life: 20 air strikes, 15 dead, 118 wounded; all to get one man. If Israel is worried about Hamas terrorists, what is a better anti-terror policy? To close in 1 million people, and severely restrict their food, trade, crayons, notepads, cement, construction material? Air strikes? Or following the global consensus and international law and building peace?


Its ridiculous to shove that many Palestinians into Gaza and then blockade them from access to food, water, trade, and any access to the outside world. This is not a fair fight, and it hasn't been since 1948. I'm disgusted by the Canadian and American governments for continuously supporting Israel. I'm not condoning what Hamas does. But there are FAR better ways to deal with this than to essentially jail the Palestinian civilian population in a small piece of land, and then continuously bomb them without any regard for civilians. And they wonder why the Palestinians are so angry.

I don't know how any human can justify what Israel is doing. Their treatment of Palestinians has a lot of similarity to the Nazi regime's treatment of the Jews. North American mainstream media just doesn't report it.

The Palestinian/Jewish conflict has deep roots and has been going on for thousands of years. But what Israel has been doing to the Palestinian population since 1948 is utterly barbaric and inhumane. Its ridiculous not to expect the Palestinian population to fight back. Zero respect for anybody who supports what Israel is doing.
Hamas is essentially a terrorist organization. So you want me to support terrorists!?

But don't believe me, both the US and Canadian governments designate it as a terrorist organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
It's true that terrorism is misused, but "terrorist" has a pretty objective dictionary definition:

The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):

•The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.


I'd say Hamas' & friends' rocket campaign fits that. Although you could actually argue that Hamas is a sovereign entity in which case it gets upgraded from "terrorism" to outright acts of war so a hard Israeli military response is even more justifief.
I refuse to support terrorism in any form. Hezbollah are also terrorists too. I remember arguing with another poster here once who said they weren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't care? As long as the US doesn't get involved, let them do whatever they want. I mean hell, Israel has said they could handle Iran without our help. The less we spend on helping other countrie's military campaigns the better IMO.
We have a pact to defend our good friend Bibi as well as Israel when they are under attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Typically, it's rather one sided, portraying the Palestinians as "terrorists" and the Israelis as merely defending themselves. In reality, the entire situation is a complicated mess, and both sides have done wrong.
Meh, the media is biased towards the Palestinians. Every newscast breaks out with images of angry Palestinians and Gaza rubble.


Last edited by Francesa: 11-15-2012 at 08:48 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman9172 View Post
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-for-calm.html

Article: Assassinating The Chance For Calm



A few people in this thread seem to be intent on painting the Israelis as "good guys" and the Palestinians as terrorists. Both sides are to blame. As mediator Folke Bernadotte once said, the core of the conflict lies in "the Arab world's continued rejection of the existence of a Jewish state, whatever its borders, and Israel's new 'philosophy', based on its increasing military strength, of ignoring the partition boundaries and conquering what additional territory it could.”
Then the terrorist organisation LEHI murdered him.

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11-15-2012, 08:48 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Hamas is essentially a terrorist organization. So you want me to support terrorists!?

But don't believe me, both the US and Canadian governments designate it as a terrorist organization.



I refuse to support terrorism in any form. Hezbollah are also terrorists too. I remember arguing with another poster here once who said they weren't.



We have a pact to defend our good friend Bibi as well as Israel when they are under attack
I never said to support Hamas. I just mean that Israel shouldn't just cut Gaza off from the rest of the world
And their disregard for civilian life is criminal.

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11-15-2012, 08:50 PM
  #99
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For me both Israel and Hamas both represent religious extremism at it's worst.

Really boggles my mind how much the entire middle eastern region very much remains in the dark ages when it comes to the role religion plays.

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11-15-2012, 08:53 PM
  #100
Francesa
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Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
I never said to support Hamas. I just mean that Israel shouldn't just cut Gaza off from the rest of the world
And their disregard for civilian life is criminal.
Palestinians voted for Hamas

Hamas is a terrorist organization

I refuse to support terrorists plain and simple

I am tired of this slant or bias perpetuated by the media, that the Palestinians are the victims here. Palestinians fire rockets into Israel too.

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