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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

OT An [MLB] owner's word - The cautionary tale of Jeff Loria

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:32 AM
  #51
Lacaar
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Where's all the free market posters?

Isn't this just an owner doing what every media outlet complains about NHL owners. Except he's trading them instead of signing them?

I'll give it to baseball. Some of their owners don't care about winning. That or they know how futile trying is so they just take the easy buck that is revenue sharing.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:53 AM
  #52
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Don Fehr needs to get back to baseball right now, in order to save MLB. teams that arent' making money won't spend recklessly on players. That needs to change now, These money losing owners need to realize that through hard fought player sacrifices, revenue sharing was brought into save them .........the players have gave and gave and gave and what have the owners done? nothing is what!

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:19 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Where's all the free market posters?

Isn't this just an owner doing what every media outlet complains about NHL owners. Except he's trading them instead of signing them?

I'll give it to baseball. Some of their owners don't care about winning. That or they know how futile trying is so they just take the easy buck that is revenue sharing.
Some owners just want to have their team makes lots of money and with how high revenue sharing is, it's a pretty great investment to have a low payroll team.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Where's all the free market posters?

Isn't this just an owner doing what every media outlet complains about NHL owners. Except he's trading them instead of signing them?

I'll give it to baseball. Some of their owners don't care about winning. That or they know how futile trying is so they just take the easy buck that is revenue sharing.
I'm here and still support it. It's up to the fans in Miami to be pissed about it enough to not show up since I live in Winnipeg. The guy is making money which is all that matters in North American spots.

My main gripe is the fact that Miami taxpayers/politicians should have studied the man first and saw his legal shenanigans in Montreal. The building of the stadium for this man disgusts me.

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11-15-2012, 02:01 PM
  #55
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Loria is a ******* of the Bill Wirtz mode. Amazing how the Blackhawks won a title two years after he died after he'd ran the team and they'd accomplished nothing forever.

Back to Loria though, if there was ever an owner in pro sports that fit Rachel Phelps from Major League to a tee, it's him. And that was true before he got Miami to build him a stadium.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Gberg View Post
I absolutely hate it when owners try to get taxpayer funding for their stadium, and if they don't, they'll threaten to move (Edmonton/Katz). It's just not right.

And.... Go Blue Jays!!!
This is a common tactic. However, if Miami Dade County was prudent, they would have demanded some share of direct profits or some level of control in exchange for the $357 Million in taxpayer money. Instead, they effectively handed that money over to Loria with no strings attached. It was a 'gift'.

Needless to say, this will serve as a lesson for future municipalities when teams come knocking at the door asking for a subsidy.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:08 PM
  #57
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http://www.movievillains.com/archive...el_phelps.html



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It's been 40 years since the last World Series appearance by the Cleveland Indians, and the team, not to mention the city, continues to doubt their chances to ever return. To add insult to injury, the team's owner got married in the offseason and didn't survive the honeymoon. Now, just weeks before spring training, the Tribe is in the hands of the late owner's bride, Rachel Phelps (Margaret Whitton), a former stripper who hates Cleveland. She sets a plan in motion immediately to put together a team so bad that it will lose lots of games, causing attendance to drop below the minimum amount necessary to keep the team's agreement with the city intact. Miami is ready to welcome a new baseball team, and Rachel Phelps wants some sun and fun.

Enter the saviors of Cleveland. Invited to spring training are a bunch of nobodys, has-beens, and never-will-bes, including journeyman catcher Jake Taylor (Tom Berenger), pitcher Rick Vaughn (Charlie Sheen), Cuban defector Pedro Cerrano (Dennis Haysbert), and camp crashing outfielder Willie Mays Hayes (Wesley Snipes). Never given a chance before, these guys find this first opportunity the chance to open some eyes, play together, and just have fun playing baseball. Some of the guys are rough around the edges - including arrogant third baseman Roger Dorn (Corbin Bernsen) - but they work out their differences and playing for veteran manager Lou Brown (James Gammon), start playing some decent baseball.

Rachel Phelps has no interest in seeing a rag-tag group of overachievers trying to make any sort of succesful run. So, she starts to make things tough for the team, forcing the team's general manager to replace the team jet with an old rickety twin-engine charter, and then a cramped smelly bus. (Luckily, she doesn't figure out until Major League II that trading good players away works too.) The GM can't stand to see the team blindsided like this, so he tells Lou Brown, who passes the news onto the team. Their owner wants them to lose. The team is shocked, but completely energized by this turn of events. Starting at that point, the Indians begin a devistating run through the American League, rolling with a huge winning on their way to a two-way tie with the Yankees atop the division.

At this point, all Phelps can do is watch as the Indians complete their dream season by willing the one-game playoff against the Yanks in dramatic fashion. All the nobodys on the team have become stars because of their obvious talent and flair for the dramatic, and their ability to work together as a team. Rachel Phelps wanted to destroy the team and deprive Cleveland of a baseball team, but instead provided the Cleveland faithful with one of the most exiting teams they've ever seen.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by rj View Post
Loria is a ******* of the Bill Wirtz mode. Amazing how the Blackhawks won a title two years after he died after he'd ran the team and they'd accomplished nothing forever.
Has more to do with the cap, Wirtz (family) and Jacobs were too cheap to win after the early 90's. By the way to a large degree read responsible. When the game got a little healthier and both landed new arenas they could spend a little more. They couldn't close the gap without the current system and only now operate like they do because the cap is in place. That talent was put together while Wirtz was alive and his stake in the United Center happening cannot be overlooked in the health of that team. I know people don't like him and the tv thing was stupid, but a lot of the Hawks recovery started under Wirtz with the things got for the team and him being a hawk in negotiations for a system that would benefit him/Chicago to a huge degree.

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11-15-2012, 05:05 PM
  #59
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I'm not trying to defend the guy, but, as an NL East fan (Phillies) I watched the Marlins make their biggest push (by far) in FA last season and their fanbase responded by giving them, I believe, the worst turnout in the season of a new stadium for a franchise in history.

Now, this situation more than likely would have occurred whether or not Miami's stadium was filled to capacity or as empty as it was, but, I certainly imagine it makes it easier for an owner to dismantle a team when he sees no correlation between high payroll and high ticket sales.

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:08 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
I'm not trying to defend the guy, but, as an NL East fan (Phillies) I watched the Marlins make their biggest push (by far) in FA last season and their fanbase responded by giving them, I believe, the worst turnout in the season of a new stadium for a franchise in history.

Now, this situation more than likely would have occurred whether or not Miami's stadium was filled to capacity or as empty as it was, but, I certainly imagine it makes it easier for an owner to dismantle a team when he sees no correlation between high payroll and high ticket sales.
And, from my understanding, the team was pretty bad this year (last in their division or whatever MLB uses)

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11-15-2012, 05:26 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
I'm not trying to defend the guy, but, as an NL East fan (Phillies) I watched the Marlins make their biggest push (by far) in FA last season and their fanbase responded by giving them, I believe, the worst turnout in the season of a new stadium for a franchise in history.

Now, this situation more than likely would have occurred whether or not Miami's stadium was filled to capacity or as empty as it was, but, I certainly imagine it makes it easier for an owner to dismantle a team when he sees no correlation between high payroll and high ticket sales.
The fan turnout definitely sucked:
In 2001, when Pittsburgh opened their new park, the Pirates hadn't had a winning season in nine years.
The team lost 93 games the year before, didn't add anyone in the offseason, and the Pirates drew 30,430 per game while losing 100 games.

Miami had 5 winning seasons (and a WS title) in the previous nine seasons; spent a ton of money on to improve a 90-loss team from the year before; and drew 27,401 a game while losing 93 games.

Worse team, worse expections, better attendance in Pittsburgh. So yes, the fans weren't very good in supporting the team compared to others.


But I don't think that excuses what Loria did. He's still a great satan for killing baseball in a second city.

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:28 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
I'm not trying to defend the guy, but, as an NL East fan (Phillies) I watched the Marlins make their biggest push (by far) in FA last season and their fanbase responded by giving them, I believe, the worst turnout in the season of a new stadium for a franchise in history.

Now, this situation more than likely would have occurred whether or not Miami's stadium was filled to capacity or as empty as it was, but, I certainly imagine it makes it easier for an owner to dismantle a team when he sees no correlation between high payroll and high ticket sales.
Which kinda says this market only survives because of revenue sharing subsidies from other teams and subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for the stadium.

It's a bad market overall and too much money was poured into it then its worth.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:19 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Which kinda says this market only survives because of revenue sharing subsidies from other teams and subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for the stadium.

It's a bad market overall and too much money was poured into it then its worth.
I feel sorry for the taxpayers more than anything else. Not all of them are baseball fans but now they've got to foot the bill.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:04 PM
  #64
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And i would argue its a function of there being no hard cap.
The markets listed can not sustain high payrolls yr over yr with the knowledge they will and can always be outbid for talent but the top teams where the soft cap does not matter to them.

I think it's a no brainer that if you throw a cap on that league, those teams listed would be rotating regularly into the postseason as the salary/talent starts to spread across the league...

All revenue sharing does is enable those teams to exist in order to bring in the national tv contracts they need.


So i don't think Revenue Sharing is the evil in baseball... its the lack of a cap...
Loria gave himself a salary of 10m because he was the exrcutive of something something. People are good at finding loopholes. There is enough loop holes in revenue sharing that i am sure that its easy to take money from revenue sharing in a "legit" manner.

Loria is scum. And he is a great argument for why revenue sharing doesnt work. If your making money do you really care about winning? The people that lose in that scenario are fans. Everyone on this board is a fan so we should be pulling for what is in the best interest for us. Make our favorite teams work for their money so the fans of all 30 teams have something to cheer for

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:06 PM
  #65
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Crap quoted wrong person. Im on my phone so wont fix it. I was trying to quote the perso with a long winded post suggesting revenue sharing money had to spent on certain things. That is easy to get around

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:33 PM
  #66
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Old
11-17-2012, 03:22 AM
  #67
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A sad story for Marlins fans and Miami taxpayers (elation for us Blue Jays fans but I digress...) but it won't change anything. If cities are still willing to build arenas for the NHL after the Glendale fiasco, they'll still be willing to build baseball stadiums.

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