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Hemsky has his value gone up?

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:56 AM
  #76
thadd
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I don't know.

I don't know whether or not to believe he's fully recovered.
I don't know whether or not to believe that he's made of glass. Actually, he isn't made of glass. He always takes lots of hits.. he just doesn't look durable in the long run.... ever.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:04 AM
  #77
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His value to Buffalo is zero until Regehr is off the team. I also doubt anybody in the NE will be trading for him until that point either. Regehr really hates him and goes out of his way to plaster him to the boards every time they are both on the ice. Leading to more injuries for him.

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11-15-2012, 10:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Strange Hemsky Fact..

Mondays 2011-12 10 GP 1p, -11, 21 PIM, 0 hits

Tuesdays 2011-12 9 GP 14P, +10, 2 PIM, 3 hits
That's kinda funny.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:43 AM
  #79
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That's kinda funny.
Meh...not surprising, he plays for a Canadian team in the NHL....to much beer on the weekend...takes a day to recover.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #80
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Jiri Tlusty has 10 g,10 a in 19 games so far in the Czech league; his numbers there won't really mean much.

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11-15-2012, 11:11 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Incredible.
I think it was a joke.. I hope it was a joke.

I'm laughing none the less.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:16 PM
  #82
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The point I was trying to get across is that those who live in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks. No one cares about first round exits, over half the teams in the league get in. The only team prizes worth mentioning are conference banners and cups, and the Habs havent touched either for 20 years. Some fans (read: the poster I quoted) take every shot they can at the Oilers, and really shouldnt be doing so considered that their team is a mess as well.

Also, sure, it may be an anomaly to finish 3rd overall. That said, you're splitting hairs if you're distiguishing much between "we sucked so bad we finished in the lottery" and "we sucked so bad we finished in the bottom 10". There really isnt much of a difference.

Back on topic. Hemsky has to show he can still play at a high level in the NHL before he will be worth what a player of his skill should be worth. He's still an excellent player, and I think actually playing with some other skilled forwards while being healthy will bring out the best in him.
Except I wasn't taking a shot at the Oilers, I was merely stating a fact. You were taking a shot at the Habs by saying the team's trending towards being bottom-feeders. Also, the Habs don't typically finish in the bottom 10 as opposed to the bottom 3 (2008: 3rd best record in the NHL, 2010: Conference Finals appearance), so I fail to see how I'm splitting hairs in that regard.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by TyutinMyOwnHorn View Post
Except I wasn't taking a shot at the Oilers, I was merely stating a fact. You were taking a shot at the Habs by saying the team's trending towards being bottom-feeders. Also, the Habs don't typically finish in the bottom 10 as opposed to the bottom 3 (2008: 3rd best record in the NHL, 2010: Conference Finals appearance), so I fail to see how I'm splitting hairs in that regard.
That's fair enough, I certainly went a little too far saying the Habs are trending downwards. Especially since I hardly see the team play. My apologies.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:59 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Strange Hemsky Fact..

Mondays 2011-12 10 GP 1p, -11, 21 PIM, 0 hits

Tuesdays 2011-12 9 GP 14P, +10, 2 PIM, 3 hits


I have figured it out folks. Hemsky suffers from a severe case of the Mondays. Put him in the press box till Tuesday and you are golden. Hahaha

Seriously though, some people undervalue Hemsky.

He had as many goals in March as he did the rest of the year combined. He went on to post 8 points in 9 games at the WCs.

Hemsky is healthy now and very much worth the 5 mil he is signed to. IF he stays healthy, the Oilers top 6 is easily one of the scariest in the league.
That's an awesome stat, how'd you find it?

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
With the coaching change probably not but as a habs fan I wouldn't mind hemsky. Very talented player. I think toughness is overrated. Habs dominated tough teams like boston for an enternity and have competitive battles even when habs are smurfs. It's a strong element but the number of goals wins the hockey game. If my team can add a guy like hemsky in a low risk price, I would do it for sure.
Michel Therrien would despise a guy like him.

Not that he's about to demand that his guys Fred Shero it up on the ice, mind you, but he despises underachievers, big players who don't finish checks and used to mock players who wouldn't play injured to the Wilkes-barre media.

There was one post-game where he (sarcastically) excused the players for a bad loss because Shane Endicott's foot hurt, and how could he expect the baby pens to win under such catasrophic conditions such as a sore foot from the 3rd line center?

So no, he wouldn't like Hemsky at all.

He'll like that tiny center, though. Therrien loves little guys who play way above expectation.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
For all those guys saying that Hemsky has no value you don't know anything about hockey; he is a legit top 6 winger and has played 21 straight games. He would help any team in the top 6 position. A team like NAS, PHX, NYI, and TO just to name a few would improve their team.
21 games THIS SEASON in the Czech league.

Let's add the 69 games from the last NHL season and all the games from the World Championships...

All of a sudden he's played 100 games in a row without an injury but there's no reason attempting to defend Hemsky amongst the scores and scores of haters on this forum.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
This is something to brag about with a young player beginning to break out or who finally made it onto a good line, or a player who was playing hurt for the rest of the season and got better, returning to previously established form. Other than that, this is not a good thing.
As much as people want to believe the last one to three months of the season will be indicative of performance in the following year, it really isn't, especially for veteran players.

If his injuries really are behind him and he doesn't have to play a more perimeter game in order to ensure that they stay behind him, then he's a valuable player. All things being equal (and healthy), he should probably get 15-20 goals and 35-40 assists in 70ish games. If any one of the Oilers' young forwards really breaks out on Hemsky's line, those numbers could grow considerably. That doesn't mean his trade value is any higher, because not every team has three first overall forwards poised for stardom that can line up with Hemsky.

A 50-60 point winger who 1. doesn't have a remarkable two-way game, 2. regressed considerably last year, 3. has a bit more upside but also 4. is a huge injury risk, is not worth 5 million on any planet. The only forwards who have a cap hit as high as Hemsky's and are not clearly more valuable are Horcoff and Gomez. Hemsky only reaches that value if he stays healthy and breaks 60 points.

Let's see Hemsky AND Hall and RNH stay healthy before saying anything remotely like "the Oilers top 6 is easily one of the scariest in the league."
Semin- $7mil
Ruutu- $4.75mil
Leino- $4.5mil
Cammalleri- $6mil
Lecavalier- $7mil
Grabovski-$5mil
Havlat-$5mil

GMs, Agents, etc... have decided Hemsky is worth $5mil. It is nice that you have an opinion, but in the real hockey world it doesn't matter.

Top 6 forwards with that much upside are worth keeping. Watch some of Hemsky's highlights and you will see why he gets injured. He is a high risk, high reward player. He always has been.

For a player that for most of his career has been near PPG, you take that risk...

On top of the fact that he loves Edmonton and actually wants to stay. Ask the fans in NJ how much Parise is worth, or how about Nash in Columbus?

Id rather overpay someone who wants to stay, then have to overpay to keep them from leaving...

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Then why did you ask if his value went up when you've already come to this conclusion? which, by the way, nobody agrees with. The only person you're convincing here is yourself.
Oh TO fan, you think Phanuef is an all star dman, I wouldn't even take him in EDM, and I am serious about that.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BobloblawLeaf View Post
Jiri Tlusty has 10 g,10 a in 19 games so far in the Czech league; his numbers there won't really mean much.
The point with Hemsky is not his skill it is if he is totally healthy after having surgery. He has played in the WC and so far 21 games this year. His skill is not the question here as he has the skill to play on either the top line or the 2nd line. It is if he can stay healthy and if he is fully recovered from his surgery.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
21 games THIS SEASON in the Czech league.

Let's add the 69 games from the last NHL season and all the games from the World Championships...

All of a sudden he's played 100 games in a row without an injury but there's no reason attempting to defend Hemsky amongst the scores and scores of haters on this forum.
This is what I was wondering if people realized this but I guess not. There is no arguing his skill, it is his injuries. Time will tell I guess.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
The point with Hemsky is not his skill it is if he is totally healthy after having surgery. He has played in the WC and so far 21 games this year. His skill is not the question here as he has the skill to play on either the top line or the 2nd line. It is if he can stay healthy and if he is fully recovered from his surgery.
That is somewhat fair to point that out. However, the point others are making is his value can only rise so much without actual NHL games. Certainly he would appear to be healthy, if he does that for even a shortened (we hope) lockout season more teams will be willing to take the risk. So yes to a degree his value is looking better today than this time last year. But it still isn't to what the Oilers have been putting out for basically the last two or three years as what they want for compensation.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:58 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Semin- $7mil
Ruutu- $4.75mil
Leino- $4.5mil
Cammalleri- $6mil
Lecavalier- $7mil
Grabovski-$5mil
Havlat-$5mil
First off, neither Ruutu nor Leino make as much as Hemsky does. If you're doing 4.5 and higher, the list of guys who are more valuable than Hemsky in that range grows even faster than the list of guys who are not as valuable. I was actually being generous.

Secondly, I'd rather have every single one of the rest of those players. Show me what they have done for the past two years and what Hemsky has done for the past two years.

Hemsky 116gp 24g 54a 78p
Semin 142gp 49g 59a 108p
Cammalleri 133gp 39g 49a 88p (16 goals and 29 points in 26 playoff games in 2010 & 2011)
Lecavalier 129gp 47g 56a 103p (19 points in 18 playoff games in 2011)
Grabovski 155g 52g 57a 109p
Havlat 117gp 29g 60a 89p

They all have more games played, higher goals per game, higher points per game (except for Cammalleri, who is nearly identical in ppg), and most of them have some other quality that sets them even further apart from Hemsky: good two-way players, centers, captains, and guys who have had huge playoff performances as recently as 2011 (Cammalleri and Lecavalier). Hemsky's most recent season is also considerably worse than anything any of those players have done since they were first or second year players.
I'll totally accept that they're all overpaid, but they're also all more valuable than Hemsky is.

I'm not arguing that Hemsky is without value or anything like that. I specifically said he is valuable. He's just way overpaid if he doesn't stay healthy and break sixty points, and the chances that he will do that are real, but not high.

The idea that a team signed him to a deal, therefore, he's not overpaid is ridiculous - that means that no players are overpaid. With those kinds of comments, it's clear you're just looking to bicker rather than seeking a reasonable discussion, so this conversation is over.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
First off, neither Ruutu nor Leino make as much as Hemsky does. If you're doing 4.5 and higher, the list of guys who are more valuable than Hemsky in that range grows even faster than the list of guys who are not as valuable. I was actually being generous.

Secondly, I'd rather have every single one of the rest of those players. Show me what they have done for the past two years and what Hemsky has done for the past two years.

Hemsky 116gp 24g 54a 78p
Semin 142gp 49g 59a 108p
Cammalleri 133gp 39g 49a 88p (16 goals and 29 points in 26 playoff games in 2010 & 2011)
Lecavalier 129gp 47g 56a 103p (19 points in 18 playoff games in 2011)
Grabovski 155g 52g 57a 109p
Havlat 117gp 29g 60a 89p

They all have more games played, higher goals per game, higher points per game (except for Cammalleri, who is nearly identical in points), and most of them have some other quality that sets them even further apart from Hemsky: good two-way players, centers, captains, and guys who have had huge playoff performances as recently as 2011 (Cammalleri and Lecavalier). Hemsky's most recent season is also considerably worse than anything any of those players have done since they were first or second year players.
I'll totally accept that they're all overpaid, but they're also all more valuable than Hemsky is.

I'm not arguing that Hemsky is without value or anything like that. I specifically said he is valuable. He's just way overpaid if he doesn't stay healthy and break sixty points, and the chances that he will do that are real, but not high.

The idea that just because a team signed him to a deal that he's not overpaid is ridiculous - that means that no players are overpaid. With those kinds of comments, it's clear you're just looking to bicker rather than have a reasonable discussion, so this conversation is over.
Hemsky and Havlat are eerily similar when you look at their career totals, the difference being Havlat is more of a goal scorer and Hemsky is more of a playmaker.

I won't argue that Hemsky is a bit over paid (maybe like 500-750k) but he did sign a short 2 year deal (essentially one year with the way the lockout is going) and gave up a shot a free agency for the second time. You need to pay a bit more if you want to sign a guy to such a short contract.

Semin and Lecavalier also make quite a bit more money than Hemsky.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:09 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Hemsky and Havlat are eerily similar when you look at their career totals, the difference being Havlat is more of a goal scorer and Hemsky is more of a playmaker.

I won't argue that Hemsky is a bit over paid (maybe like 500-750k) but he did sign a short 2 year deal (essentially one year with the way the lockout is going) and gave up a shot a free agency for the second time. You need to pay a bit more if you want to sign a guy to such a short contract.

Semin and Lecavalier also make quite a bit more money than Hemsky.
Havlat is also a better overall player and has turned in a complete, high-scoring season much more recently (Havlat's 62 points in 78 games in 2011 to Hemsky's 66 points in 72 games in 2009).

I expect someone might think that's a case of "what have you done for me lately," but there's a big difference between two seasons ago and four seasons ago. It's very rare that a player declines in games played and production so sharply for multiple seasons and then explodes back to his prime.

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11-15-2012, 10:48 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
First off, neither Ruutu nor Leino make as much as Hemsky does. If you're doing 4.5 and higher, the list of guys who are more valuable than Hemsky in that range grows even faster than the list of guys who are not as valuable. I was actually being generous.

Secondly, I'd rather have every single one of the rest of those players. Show me what they have done for the past two years and what Hemsky has done for the past two years.

Hemsky 116gp 24g 54a 78p
Semin 142gp 49g 59a 108p
Cammalleri 133gp 39g 49a 88p (16 goals and 29 points in 26 playoff games in 2010 & 2011)
Lecavalier 129gp 47g 56a 103p (19 points in 18 playoff games in 2011)
Grabovski 155g 52g 57a 109p
Havlat 117gp 29g 60a 89p

They all have more games played, higher goals per game, higher points per game (except for Cammalleri, who is nearly identical in ppg), and most of them have some other quality that sets them even further apart from Hemsky: good two-way players, centers, captains, and guys who have had huge playoff performances as recently as 2011 (Cammalleri and Lecavalier). Hemsky's most recent season is also considerably worse than anything any of those players have done since they were first or second year players.
I'll totally accept that they're all overpaid, but they're also all more valuable than Hemsky is.

I'm not arguing that Hemsky is without value or anything like that. I specifically said he is valuable. He's just way overpaid if he doesn't stay healthy and break sixty points, and the chances that he will do that are real, but not high.

The idea that a team signed him to a deal, therefore, he's not overpaid is ridiculous - that means that no players are overpaid. With those kinds of comments, it's clear you're just looking to bicker rather than seeking a reasonable discussion, so this conversation is over.
Semin? $7mil for 54 points the last 2 seasons? You would pay that over Hemsky's $5mil?

Or how about Lecavalier with his declining GP and point totals?

And Havlat was playing on a playoff team, Hemsky was playing on the 2nd worst team facing tougher minutes and tons of defensive zone starts.

Hemsky is clearly healthy, and should return to his near PPG form.

And my point about his value is that it is decided by the team that signs him. Obviously he has more value to some teams than others. If the Oil had known that they were going to draft Yakupov, the Hemsky deal may have gone differently. But at the time they felt they were thin on the RW.

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11-15-2012, 10:52 PM
  #96
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If anybody was questioning the sanity of the poster, I'd like to point out that just before the OP made this thread, he said it would take Brendan Smith and a 1st round pick for Detroit to get Hemsky.

Yeah...

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11-16-2012, 12:29 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Strange Hemsky Fact..

Mondays 2011-12 10 GP 1p, -11, 21 PIM, 0 hits

Tuesdays 2011-12 9 GP 14P, +10, 2 PIM, 3 hits

I have figured it out folks. Hemsky suffers from a severe case of the Mondays. Put him in the press box till Tuesday and you are golden. Hahaha
I have to commend you for this piece of information. Just simply awesome.

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:38 AM
  #98
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Dude, you need to open your eyes. The Vancouver Canucks will not be getting either Ales Hemsky or Joffrey Lupul. Roberto Luongo is signed to an albatross contract and the Canucks are not in the ideal situation to be dealing him with Corey Schneider under contract approaching his prime. The rest of the league knows Luongo wants out and that Vancouver isn't going to dedicate ~10M towards 2 goalies, so why can't Canucks fan just accept this? Oh and to clarify you won't be getting Hemsky, simply because Vancouver won't be dealing with a division rival and helping to fill two of Edmonton's most glaring needs: veteran experience and a big solid goaltender. Toronto will give some second tier assets for Luongo to take the contract off Vancouver's hands to fill an area of need.

Brian Campbell didn't garner any value for Chicago in his trade to Florida at age 32 and he's probably the closest comparable to Roberto Luongo.
I agree with you that Luongo isn't going to garner a Lupul but the Campbell deal isn't even close to comparable to the Canucks goalie situation. Campbell was a pure cap dump, Chicago could not resign their entire young core with Campbell on the books. If an Olesz is the best offer the Canucks get I have to think the Canucks will keep him until Burke realizes another season is slipping away because of sub-par goaltending and makes a decent offer. Wouldn't be ideal but its not worth moving him for waiver fodder.

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11-16-2012, 02:51 AM
  #99
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I think Hemsky is a perfect fit next to Kesler and Booth. Exactly the kind of player they need if that line is to succeed.

Something like Luongo for Hemsky or Ballard, Raymond, and a 1st. I bet no one's ever thought of those offers before... but seriously, I think it fits.

Edmonton needs to start solidifying the back end and giving some support to their young scorers.

Luongo would lock down the goalie spot for 4-5 years.

Ballard could rebound offensively in a different system that lets him play the left side and rush the puck out of his own zone - his D has been solid, great transitionally, which could complement a high-powered fast-skating offensive style that would fit with the Oilers forwards. Raymond can add depth to the wings and PK unit. The first gives the Oilers ammo to make a move for a true top D-man.

Vancouver gives a division opponent capable goal-tending but creates a second line that can provide consistent secondary scoring so that the entire offense doesn't live and die by the Sedins.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:25 AM
  #100
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Yikes, super sensitive Oiler fans in this thread.

No team will give up anything of value for Hemsky. Sure, there are some teams short on top-6 wingers who would gamble giving Hemsky a spot in their top-6 even w/ his contract,, but I cant see these teams giving up anything substantial in return. Thus, IMO Hemsky remains an Oiler, until he proves he can remain healthy AND produce 60+ points.

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