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Off-season Madness the 4th: and here we wait in trade-completion limbo

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:46 PM
  #226
TMLeafer
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Hope his long flight doesn't cause him to fail the physical

And not surprised about TSN's gaffe - they had Gose going the other way till probably 11:30PM on the night the trade broke.

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11-15-2012, 05:47 PM
  #227
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i guess they didnt expect to be traded suffice the hunting and ....dubai ???

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11-15-2012, 05:47 PM
  #228
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But I thought Selig and Loria were old buds?
"Hey Bud I want to do something" "Ok Lori, but I have to make it look like I'm stern on this one..."

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11-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #229
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Trout should of won the MVP. Oh well, at least they got it right in NL.

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11-15-2012, 05:59 PM
  #230
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i guess they didnt expect to be traded suffice the hunting and ....dubai ???
Dubai is one of the best tourists attractions in the world. No surprise he would be there, hell I want to go there to see that building myself.

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11-15-2012, 06:00 PM
  #231
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Trout should of won the MVP. Oh well, at least they got it right in NL.
Agreed.

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11-15-2012, 06:05 PM
  #232
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Joey (Newmarket, ON)

Do the Jays still have a high-end farm system? Top 10?

Klaw (1:37 PM)

Yes. Didn't put a huge dent in their talent level

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11-15-2012, 06:10 PM
  #233
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I'm amazed that we didn't have to give up one of Sanchez, Syndergaard, Gose or D'Arnaud. Add in guys from this past June's draft: Stroman, Davis, and Smoral who will replenish the system after this trade. The depth in our minors is still very good.

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11-15-2012, 06:17 PM
  #234
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Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

#BlueJays-#Marlins deal likely not finalized until Fri. or Sat. Reyes was in Dubai. Returning tonight. Needs to fly to Florida for physical.
That's so cold. Imagine, he is setting up to tee off, and then "rrring rrring"

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11-15-2012, 06:28 PM
  #235
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That news must have ruined Mathis' hunting trip.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:30 PM
  #236
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Joey (Newmarket, ON)

Do the Jays still have a high-end farm system? Top 10?

Klaw (1:37 PM)

Yes. Didn't put a huge dent in their talent level
It's too bad a lot of the guys are still in the lower levels otherwise it would be ranked higher.

Still pretty good considering how much we have traded it away (Happ/Santos/this blockbuster and how many have graduated (Drabek/JPA/Hutch/Gose/Lawrie/Thames/Alvarez/Perez/Cooper). This is what a deep farm system can do for you and thankfully, AA built it well enough that even after that, it's still fairly good.

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11-15-2012, 06:32 PM
  #237
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That news must have ruined Mathis' hunting trip.
He goes to an extremely crappy team but he might be their starting catcher next season (holy crap, that should be scary for any baseball team) and I'm sure he'll have good time in the sun and beaches.

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11-15-2012, 06:33 PM
  #238
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Trout should of won the MVP. Oh well, at least they got it right in NL.
The saddest part is that Cabrera wouldn't even be a serious consideration had some random journalist not coined the term, "triple crown" way back when...

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11-15-2012, 06:53 PM
  #239
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The saddest part is that Cabrera wouldn't even be a serious consideration had some random journalist not coined the term, "triple crown" way back when...
I disagree. Cabrera had a very very good season. It's absolutely reasonable that he was in the conversation (and somewhat defensible that he won). I still think Trout did more in a more impressive fashion from a more impressive position, and that Cabrera got too much weight put on the triple crown as a somewhat arbitrary thing (which I only have a problem with insofar as I have problems with batting average and rbi as valuable stats), but I don't think it's fair to say that Cabrera wouldn't be in serious consideration without the glitz of the triple crown.

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11-15-2012, 06:55 PM
  #240
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Rogers management saw things differently. While the team’s play had disappointed fans, the club’s attendance increased 15 per cent last season, and revenue was higher than expected. Some marketable players, like Brett Lawrie and José Bautista, were attracting fans across the country. Meanwhile, divisional rivals the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox looked vulnerable for the first time in years, and MLB had just concluded television deals that would put about $25-million extra in each team’s pocket. Suddenly, spending more on players looked like a smart investment and a chance to capitalize on fortunate events. In the words of a source familiar with the trade: “The banana was ripening.”

A few weeks ago, Rogers management cleared the way for Jays’ president Paul Beeston and general manager Alex Anthopoulos to take the payroll as high as $120-million for the season if necessary, according to the source. Mr. Anthopoulos went out to look for players, and soon found a willing seller in Jeffery Loria, owner of the Marlins, who seemed eager to unload some team members with big contracts. The two concluded the trade this week, even as the Red Sox tried to poach a couple of the Florida players, not realizing Mr. Loria was interested in a much bigger transaction.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...02/?cmpid=rss1

Interesting. I am surprised we didn't hear of this earlier though with how tight lipped this organization is, it shouldn't be that surprising that we didn't. If they can go all the way to 120M, Jays still may have 10M+ to play around with.

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11-15-2012, 06:56 PM
  #241
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Yeah, I disagree. Trout losing to Cabrera is a huge travesty to all of baseball.

Edit: didn't care for the other post.


Last edited by Epictetus: 11-15-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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11-15-2012, 07:02 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Trout should of won the MVP. Oh well, at least they got it right in NL.
over a triple cown? any other year you would probably have a case

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11-15-2012, 07:03 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...02/?cmpid=rss1

Interesting. I am surprised we didn't hear of this earlier though with how tight lipped this organization is, it shouldn't be that surprising that we didn't. If they can go all the way to 120M, Jays still may have 10M+ to play around with.
Yep I agree that we should still be able to spend another 8-10 million and really set us up to be dangerous.

I would look to trade JPA for something like Ogando then offer M Cabrera a one year deal to play LF.

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11-15-2012, 07:04 PM
  #244
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I think the more interesting thing is that somebody voted Raul Ibanez...
His hustle/leadership/veteraness is obviously what led the Yankees to the playoffs. It doesn't matter that Ibanez is a platoon DH whose bat is just okay.

EDIT: Holy mother of god, Austin Jackson didn't even receive a single vote from anybody. Obviously not as good as Ibanez/Weiters/Jim Johnson/Soriano.

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11-15-2012, 07:06 PM
  #245
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His hustle/leadership/veteraness is obviously what led the Yankees to the playoffs. It doesn't matter that Ibanez is a platoon DH whose bat is just okay.
He's too cool for awards anyways.

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11-15-2012, 07:12 PM
  #246
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...02/?cmpid=rss1

Interesting. I am surprised we didn't hear of this earlier though with how tight lipped this organization is, it shouldn't be that surprising that we didn't. If they can go all the way to 120M, Jays still may have 10M+ to play around with.
I actually remembering hearing about the 120M budget around the same time that we locked up Bautista long-term. It's actually quite admirable that Anthopolous has had that kind of budget for so long but did not (pardon my french...) blow his wad prematurely. He waited for a good time and he took it.

I think the extra money that we have on the budget will probably stay empty. We may need the flexibility for a mid-season move, and we also might need that money to stay competitive with Josh Johnson's agent if he has a good season.

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11-15-2012, 07:15 PM
  #247
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Dont know if its been posted but,
@Ken_Rosenthal: #BlueJays fans: Teams prefer to go into seasons with MORE than five starters. Again, Jays want one more.

who yall think it could be?

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11-15-2012, 07:16 PM
  #248
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over a triple cown? any other year you would probably have a case
Does Cabrera have a case at all if something else like OBP or runs scored or stolen bases were in the triple crown category instead of a meaningless stat like RBI's?

Cabrera was slightly better than Trout offensively but not by a whole lot (.999 OPS vs .963) while Trout nearly stole 50 bases giving the opportunity for others to drive him in a lot (lead the league in runs scored despite coming up like near the end of April) and he played gold glove caliber defense while Cabrera can't play any defense.

In an MVP debate, you have to look at numerous stats instead of "hey, he has a triple crown and therefore, instant win". Credit to Cabrera hitting for a higher batting average (not by much -- only .04 better) and for hitting more homeruns.

Mike Trout had one of the best season seen in baseball in general. He so deserved an MVP. Cabrera has a case too but maybe in another year, he gets it.

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11-15-2012, 07:19 PM
  #249
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Dont know if its been posted but,
@Ken_Rosenthal: #BlueJays fans: Teams prefer to go into seasons with MORE than five starters. Again, Jays want one more.

who yall think it could be?
Could be anyone!?

I wouldnt mind B McCarthy on a 2 year deal.

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11-15-2012, 07:21 PM
  #250
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I disagree. Cabrera had a very very good season. It's absolutely reasonable that he was in the conversation (and somewhat defensible that he won). I still think Trout did more in a more impressive fashion from a more impressive position, and that Cabrera got too much weight put on the triple crown as a somewhat arbitrary thing (which I only have a problem with insofar as I have problems with batting average and rbi as valuable stats), but I don't think it's fair to say that Cabrera wouldn't be in serious consideration without the glitz of the triple crown.
I don't think people are seeing how much better statistically Trout is over Cabrera, and how Cabrera's gap offensively is not that large to justify an MVP-award. This was a travesty.

In before, I am called a nerd.

Credit to Nate Silver, he's a nerd

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...medium=twitter

I think, everyone will clearly agree Trout was the much better overall player than Cabrera when you take into consideration base-running, fielding, and offense.

Base-running:

-Trout, successful on 49 of 54 stolen base attempts, one of the highest percentages ever for a player who attempted to steal so many times.

-Trout contributed about 12 additional runs on the basepaths when compared with an average runner. Cabrera, by contrast, cost the Tigers about three runs on the bases.

Fielding:

-Ultimate Zone Rating, estimates that Trout saved the Angels 11 runs with his defense in the outfield. Cabrera, a clumsy defender at third base who is more naturally suited to play first base, cost the Tigers 10 runs with his.

Between his defense and his base running, therefore, Trout was about 35 runs more valuable to the Angels than Cabrera was to the Tigers.

Offensively:

-Batting average? .330 to .326 is not that much of a difference. Just like people who favor Trout will barely use his .OBP of .399 to Cabrera's .393.

-Of the 159 home runs hit at Comerica Park this season, for example, about 20 or 25 were not hit deep enough to leave the field at Angel Stadium, according to ESPN’s Home Run Tracker. Another 15 or 20 would have been borderline cases.

-RBI's? Much of the difference simply reflects the fact that Cabrera hits third in the batting order, and had more opportunities to hit with runners on base. His 89 R.B.I.’s with runners in scoring position came in 205 plate appearances, a rate of 0.43 R.B.I.’s per opportunity. Trout’s 53 R.B.I.’s came in just 135 opportunities, since he is the Angels’ leadoff hitter. That yields a similar rate of production: 0.39 R.B.I.’s per plate appearance with runners in scoring position.

-Trout was very good when leading off the inning, hitting .339 with a .398 on-base percentage. (He also stole 16 bases with nobody out.) Cabrera hit .301 with a .342 on-base percentage in leadoff situations. That counteracts much of the advantage from Cabrera’s superior performance with runners on base.

The Triple-Crown:

-Cabrera would have also won it in 2008, so it's not that historic. This is more a timing-type of thing.

Tigers Made the Playoffs; Angels did not:

-But the Angels won more games (89) than the Tigers (88), missing the playoffs because they played in a harder division. Trout, moreover, began the year in the minors; the Angels went 81-58 in games in which he participated, equivalent to their winning 94 games over a full season.

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