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Old
11-15-2012, 10:06 AM
  #701
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I can't fathom how it can possibly be more than $60,000 a game. We're talking a temporarily-high 2.9% municipal tax rate, so $60,000 would translate to $2,068,920 per game in sales directly relating to the Coyotes. Meaning those sales wouldn't happen at the Job / Westgate without a Coyotes game.

Figure 12,000 fans a game (to be generous, that's historically high for Oct and Nov) and that works out to each Coyotes fan paying $172 for a night of Coyotes hockey. So, in addition to a $35 ticket and maybe $25 for dinner, plus $0 for parking, the average fan must also spend $112 in beer and/or new sneakers before and after the game. Sorry, the math doesn't add up. No way are the 'Yotes directly responsible for $60,000 per game in city tax revenue. The concept that the real number is "much higher" is laughable - when has the city ever under-estimated how much money the Coyotes bring in for the city? Never.

Even if it is more than that, let's say double. That meands the city pulls in $120,000 per game night, or $5 million a year. Sounds like they really need to spend $15 million a year to preserve that $5 million (grossly inflated) revenue they generate. That's some good reckoning there, fellas. Beasley would be proud.

The article also whines about McFadden's losing $18,000 to $30,000 in sales each non-game night. Won't someone please think about McFadden's! Take the high number, multiply by 41, and we get $1.25 million roughly for the year that McFadden's will lose in sales. Again, bang-up reason to spend $15 million on Jamison & Friends to manage the arena - to keep that $1.25 million in overpriced bar food sales at Westgate. Isn't it cheaper for the city to just give $1.25 million to Mr. McFadden instead of propping up a money-losing sinkhole in maroon uniforms to the tune of $15 million a year?

I also call shananigans on the idea that the NFL will move the SuperBowl they have already awarded to Arizona simply becuase Jimmy Buffet's Margaritaville across the parking lot closes up shop. Nice try though. And of course lest we forget the last SuperBowl that Glendale hosted actually cost the city about $2 million. Yes, they lost money hosting the SuperBowl. Good work, guys!
I couldn't have said it better!

And McFadden's losing 30k$ on non game day means they serve 700 more patrons at an average 50$/each. Sounds like a lot to me...

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11-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I can't fathom how it can possibly be more than $60,000 a game. We're talking a temporarily-high 2.9% municipal tax rate, so $60,000 would translate to $2,068,920 per game in sales directly relating to the Coyotes. Meaning those sales wouldn't happen at the Job / Westgate without a Coyotes game.

Figure 12,000 fans a game (to be generous, that's historically high for Oct and Nov) and that works out to each Coyotes fan paying $172 for a night of Coyotes hockey. So, in addition to a $35 ticket and maybe $25 for dinner, plus $0 for parking, the average fan must also spend $112 in beer and/or new sneakers before and after the game. Sorry, the math doesn't add up. No way are the 'Yotes directly responsible for $60,000 per game in city tax revenue. The concept that the real number is "much higher" is laughable - when has the city ever under-estimated how much money the Coyotes bring in for the city? Never.

I also call shananigans on the idea that the NFL will move the SuperBowl they have already awarded to Arizona simply becuase Jimmy Buffet's Margaritaville across the parking lot closes up shop. Nice try though. And of course lest we forget the last SuperBowl that Glendale hosted actually cost the city about $2 million. Yes, they lost money hosting the SuperBowl. Good work, guys!
Well there is a $2.25 surcharge on every ticket. So at 12,000 fans per game thats $27K. They are also hoping that with stable ownership they can get back to the 15K fans per game level they used to get which gets them to about $34K. So they would only have to make up $26K in other ways thats $897K worth of spending so that means each of $15K fans would average $60. Still doubtful

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:14 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
OK, first things first ....who wants sleeman?...
... if you havent got a nice Cabernet, I'll go for your Cream Ale please. Best beer on the planet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
... would average $60. Still doubtful
... ya, and you'll just drive yourselves crazy projecting numbers. Last time I checked, Jamison would average $61,000+ for each Coyotes game through the AMF, so how the balances with sales tax revenues and the ticket surcharges no matter how you cut it, its too much. Theres no "Win-Win" here. All a one way street even when you use the most optimistic of numbers.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:19 PM
  #704
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It appears that the Glendale Star is starting to beat the drums

Quote:
But one of the main objectives for his visit to City Hall Tuesday morning was to meet people and assure anyone who may have been concerned about their job that he does not plan on coming in and firing them.

To the main topic for many citizens, however, is the Coyotes arena management agreement.

“I hope they (city council) wait for the new council and mayor to weigh in on the decision,” Weiers said.

What really has him concerned at this point is the citizenry’s expectation with the failure of Proposition 457, which would have repealed the sales tax hike. Citizens may expect that the money raised from the sales tax hike will save city services. Weiers said those same citizens may be “terribly upset” if they still lose those services in spite of their vote to save them. He said some councilmembers are obviously pushing for the Coyotes agreement for fear the new council will turn it down.

“But our first responsibility is to our citizens,” Weiers said. “I think citizens are going to be correctly upset.”

...

Weiers said he has been looking over the city charter, and it is his belief the mayor and council have control over the agenda. He also wants to talk with other councilmembers about the issue of who should be the next city manager. If a national search is the choice, he said it is not something that happens overnight.

Whoever takes the helm of city manager, whether it is Acting City Manager Horatio Skeete, or someone completely new, Weiers definitely wants to see “good positive things coming out of the city” every week.
Accountability and transparency top Weiers’ list

Small editorial piece

Current council should obey will of people

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11-15-2012, 03:37 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
It appears that the Glendale Star is starting to beat the drums



Accountability and transparency top Weiers’ list

Small editorial piece

Current council should obey will of people
There is a good point in a letter to the editor:

Quote:
The current city council has had three years to deal with the Coyotes situation and failed miserably.
Those who think that the current council should be allowed to go ahead and pass the Jamison lease before they vacate their chairs might want to consider that they have had plenty of time to negotiate and finalize an agreement and failed to do so. A new mayor and council has now been elected and I expect that the citizens will want them to have a say. At the very least, I expect that many folks who voted to retain the sales tax will be mighty annoyed when they see that drastic cuts to staff and services will still need to be made because Jamison's lease costs much more than it generates in revenues, no matter how you slice it.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:39 PM
  #706
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And...

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Outgoing Mayor Elaine Scruggs said she wants a full investigation by the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office.

“There is enough evidence and e-mails that show this should be investigated immediately,” she said.

Jerry Weiers, who will replace Scruggs in January, pointed to the internal audit as another reason to create a citizens budget committee as a public watchdog over city finances. The mayor-elect slammed a recently formed city audit committee because it would be made up heavily of staff and council members. He compared it to the fox guarding the henhouse.

Weiers has hesitated to call for a forensic audit, which he has said would imply possible criminal wrongdoing, but he said “we may be getting pretty close in some areas.”

He added, “If I need to get (County Attorney) Bill Montgomery to look into this, I will.”

An outside review could fall within the purview of the County Attorney’s Office or the state Attorney General’s Office. The state Auditor General’s Office also could conduct an audit and refer the matter to the county attorney or attorney general.

Jerry Cobb, a spokesman for the County Attorney’s Office, said that, in general, they are not an investigative agency, but law-enforcement agencies have authority to conduct investigations into white-collar crimes. The county could then review an investigation and recommend charges.

“That doesn’t mean the Glendale mayor could not approach our office and talk to us,” he said.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...nclick_check=1

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11-15-2012, 03:56 PM
  #707
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One other solution is for Glendale to sell the arena to either the state or the county and have them work out a lease with Jamison. Its silly to localize the costs and benefits to a small suburb. The status factor of being a 4 team market and quality of life of having an NHL team (to the degree there is any but I don't want to debate if Arizonans like hockey) isn't confined to Glendale. Glendale didn't pick up the whole tab for the Cardinals stadium, why did they do it for the arena

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:04 PM
  #708
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Why wouldn't you want to rely on $320 million of subsidies from this organization when you're making a $170 million investment?

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:06 PM
  #709
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... yup. Cant say many here will be surprised. Just how bad it might be I have no idea, but generally in such cases just based on what's been reported; CF's post of a few pages back, were just scratching the surface. It's more than plausible that former City Manager Ed Beasley does find himself indicted, and Lord only know who else he'll take down with him.

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:22 PM
  #710
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One other solution is for Glendale to sell the arena to either the state or the county and have them work out a lease with Jamison. Its silly to localize the costs and benefits to a small suburb. The status factor of being a 4 team market and quality of life of having an NHL team (to the degree there is any but I don't want to debate if Arizonans like hockey) isn't confined to Glendale. Glendale didn't pick up the whole tab for the Cardinals stadium, why did they do it for the arena
I'm sure the city would love to sell the arena and get it off their books. The stumbling block would be for anyone (state, country, private etc...) to pay what anywhere near what COG want (needs) to clear enough of the buidlings debt and put it behind them

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11-15-2012, 04:25 PM
  #711
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I'm sure the city would love to sell the arena and get it off their books. The stumbling block would be for anyone (state, country, private etc...) to pay what anywhere near what COG want (needs) to clear enough of the buidlings debt and put it behind them
Don't worry, Joyce Clark and Skeete have a plan. They've given Jamison the option to purchase the arena from the COG. I'm sure he'll jump at the opportunity of paying to buy the arena, and foregoing the $320 million in AMF revenue that he gets for managing the arena.

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11-15-2012, 04:32 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... yup. Cant say many here will be surprised. Just how bad it might be I have no idea, but generally in such cases just based on what's been reported; CF's post of a few pages back, were just scratching the surface. It's more than plausible that former City Manager Ed Beasley does find himself indicted, and Lord only know who else he'll take down with him.
Yea, quite the possible perfect storm:

Ongoing ligitation possibly with Beasley et al.
A possible "midnight run-through" of the Yotes deal (or 3pm on Nov 26 )
Potential RAGE (and that's putting it lightly) by the populace at the perceived bait and switch
And a new council just ITCHING to promote itself as a champion for the citzens and pushing for a legal overturn of the deal (if not already dragged by aformentioned Beasley)

Could get very nasty in short order.

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11-15-2012, 05:19 PM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... yup. Cant say many here will be surprised. Just how bad it might be I have no idea, but generally in such cases just based on what's been reported; CF's post of a few pages back, were just scratching the surface. It's more than plausible that former City Manager Ed Beasley does find himself indicted, and Lord only know who else he'll take down with him.
Assuming they can find what South Seas Island he has squirreled himself and his retirement fund to ( " Have another rum and coke... mon " )

This is going to get ugly. On one hand, as a council, you have to trust the City manager to negotiate a good deal for the council to vote on and pass, but given the ponzi scheme that the former City Manager might have been responsible for, and the fact that the Interm City Manager has found areas of Beasley's work that needs some tweeks.... It might be best to just throw the whole lease out, hire a new City Manager, and start all over again. Before I get laughed at, remember that there is a very good chance we won't be seeing NHL hockey for the next 9-10 months... lots of time to clean this up.

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11-15-2012, 05:34 PM
  #714
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http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ide-audit.html

Former county prosecutor Rick Romley said money doesn’t have to be misspent for someone’s personal benefit to prompt a probe. As in this case, specifically earmarked money used for something else could warrant an investigation, particularly in light of an e-mail the mayor highlighted during a special meeting she convened last week on the matter.

A 2009 e-mail showed upper management discussing how to circumvent state law by lowering contributions to city trust funds and diverting money for other expenses.


I'm kind of curious as to the hows and whys that Mayor Scruggs came about this email. Did a whistleblower send it to her recently or is this some email she has been sitting on for 3 years waiting for something like this to happen, so she could use it as her "Get out of Jail Free card". Hmmmmm....

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11-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #715
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Hmmmmm....
...indeed. This story, these threads carrying
on for years to come. Mindblowing really.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:05 PM
  #716
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Wow, audits, investigations from the county attorney... wonder if we'll see the ownership start due diligence any time soon...

edit:


Last edited by OthmarAmmann: 11-16-2012 at 07:21 AM.
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11-15-2012, 06:20 PM
  #717
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Quote:
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Yea, quite the possible perfect storm:

Ongoing ligitation possibly with Beasley et al.
A possible "midnight run-through" of the Yotes deal (or 3pm on Nov 26 )
Potential RAGE (and that's putting it lightly) by the populace at the perceived bait and switch
And a new council just ITCHING to promote itself as a champion for the citzens and pushing for a legal overturn of the deal (if not already dragged by aformentioned Beasley)

Could get very nasty in short order.
damn this could mean that the GWI will only Huff and Puff and Kevy will have another crossed off his "List".....I so hate that list.....I like the thought of that black cloud hanging over this deal, but if you are right TL.....they become a non issue...and THAT LIST continues to prevail.....

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11-15-2012, 06:38 PM
  #718
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Yea, quite the possible perfect storm:...Could get very nasty in short order.
... you can say that again TL. That the seated Council would even think of hammering this thing through without even knowing who their dealing with let alone not having any real understanding of the beyond serious ramifications & jeopardies it poses for the city is beyond preposterous, irresponsible.

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11-15-2012, 06:54 PM
  #719
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damn this could mean that the GWI will only Huff and Puff and Kevy will have another crossed off his "List".....I so hate that list.....I like the thought of that black cloud hanging over this deal, but if you are right TL.....they become a non issue...and THAT LIST continues to prevail.....


God bless The List!



Another conversion in DaveMac. Another poster comes to the "Truth". I just hope we are ALL here in a few years when ALL 12 points are "crossed" off because they have ALL come to fruition.



Last edited by OttawaRoughRiderFan: 11-15-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 06:57 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
damn this could mean that the GWI will only Huff and Puff and Kevy will have another crossed off his "List".....I so hate that list.....I like the thought of that black cloud hanging over this deal, but if you are right TL.....they become a non issue...and THAT LIST continues to prevail.....
Oh don't fret, as of the election, that list has spontainously burst into flame and now sits in a corner as a pile of ashes. We're in the undiscovered country, a whole new paradigm, a rollar coaster of unknown origin....

...anyway what's going to happen next is anyone's guess. What it won't be is boring...

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11-15-2012, 11:41 PM
  #721
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Don't worry, Joyce Clark and Skeete have a plan. They've given Jamison the option to purchase the arena from the COG. I'm sure he'll jump at the opportunity of paying to buy the arena, and foregoing the $320 million in AMF revenue that he gets for managing the arena.
LOL! Yup, Jamison better hurry up, someone else might just buy the arena before him, I'm sure prospective buyers are lined up!

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11-16-2012, 07:42 AM
  #722
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How can the NHL possibly still be pushing for this deal to get done with everything that is going on around it ?

Seriously I would have pulled myself out of there ASAP. Just to see what's currently happening in Montreal and Laval specifically with mafia into construction industry, some companies are currently being publicly lynched and won't be able to make a single dime from now on.

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11-16-2012, 08:02 AM
  #723
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Where's Logan Wade in all of this??????

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11-16-2012, 08:12 AM
  #724
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God bless The List!



Another conversion in DaveMac. Another poster comes to the "Truth". I just hope we are ALL here in a few years when ALL 12 points are "crossed" off because they have ALL come to fruition.

Will you stop with the list?

Your list may have had a few lucky breaks, but for the most part it is wrong. GWI has more than enough fuel to kill this deal now what with the mismanagement of the funding and backdoor deals going on.

Sorry Coyotes fans, the fat lady has just finished her warmup.

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11-16-2012, 08:30 AM
  #725
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http://www.azfamily.com/news/New-out...179600461.html

New outlet mall opens to huge crowds in Glendale

The Tanger company built its newest outlet mall in Glendale, which happens to have the highest combined city/county/state sales tax of any large city in the country, at 10.3 percent. The new mall is projected to bring in about $2.5 million in sales tax to the cash-strapped City of Glendale each year.

So the CoG is going to collect $2.5M/yr and it didn't cost them $15M/yr to do so. That's how things are suppose to work... More money coming in than going out. Awesome.

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