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Old
11-15-2012, 08:18 PM
  #651
kthsn
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
What the...?

Kadri has consistently taken far less penalties than he's drawn. He's been one of the better Leafs in terms of puck possession and he's only 20 years old. He's definitely NHL ready. His first 51 games he has 19 points, which is 31 over a full season. Not many prospects put up a 31 point season in their first year at age 20/21.

How young does Gillis possibly have to get his hands on a player anyway? Kadri is 22 and won't turn 23 until after the next season starts.. and that might be too old?
No one is doubting Kadri's immense offensive skills.

He's small yet gritty and sometimes struggles with the physical intensity of the NHL. In the much tougher West he will have an even harder transition.

The biggest downfall with Kadri is his lack of defensive skill, if he was above average defensively he could easily play on the 3rd line of most teams. He can work on the defensive side of the game in Chicago much like Cody and Schroeder did, more than likely taking 1-2 seasons.

Until he improves his play on the defensive side of the puck he remains a top 6 (NHL) or career AHLer IMO. Wouldn't mind acquiring him but not as the base of a Luongo package.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:24 PM
  #652
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
What the...?

Kadri has consistently taken far less penalties than he's drawn. He's been one of the better Leafs in terms of puck possession and he's only 20 years old. He's definitely NHL ready. His first 51 games he has 19 points, which is 31 over a full season. Not many prospects put up a 31 point season in their first year at age 20/21.

How young does Gillis possibly have to get his hands on a player anyway? Kadri is 22 and won't turn 23 until after the next season starts.. and that might be too old?


Sample size arguments aside, do you think Kadri is the _type_ of player that would fly here under AV? I don't see it.



I like Kadri, but it's clear fans are polarized as to his value. Based on what he has done, and his type of game, you could make an argument either way IMO.

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11-15-2012, 08:30 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I didn't know this was done......i give it my blessing.
But, but, but, but... Raymond!

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11-15-2012, 08:30 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Sample size arguments aside, do you think Kadri is the _type_ of player that would fly here under AV? I don't see it.



I like Kadri, but it's clear fans are polarized as to his value. Based on what he has done, and his type of game, you could make an argument either way IMO.
Imo we saw Hodgson look fine (even before his extreme sheltering).

We have the ability to do a little bit of sheltering and not have it affect the team.

If Kassian makes the team AV would likely shelter him (so do the same to Kadri).

With defensive beasts like Manny and Kesler, I think its a luxury we have that other teams dont.

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11-15-2012, 08:34 PM
  #655
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But, but, but, but... Raymond!
At that price, i'm not arguing. lol

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:45 PM
  #656
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No I'm not. He's at centre until the Canucks get somebody to fill that void.



Because Raymond is 27 years old and has passed 40 points once in his career. Hansen fits better on a 3rd line anyways.
So does that put Kulemin in the same boat as he has only passed 40 points once in his career and is only 1 year younger?

Then why are Leafs fans (pretty sure u were one) valuing Kulemin as a 2nd line player saying he isn't available?

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11-15-2012, 08:56 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
So does that put Kulemin in the same boat as he has only passed 40 points once in his career and is only 1 year younger?

Then why are Leafs fans (pretty sure u were one) valuing Kulemin as a 2nd line player saying he isn't available?
Because Kulemin is a much better and more well-rounded player and brings a lot more than Mason Raymond does. And statistically he's improved every year, this past season was bad for him but his head wasn't in the game because of the personal issues he had to deal with in regards to his friends on Lokomotiv dying in the plane crash including his father figure/mentor, Korolev.

Even if he doesn't hit 30 again he has all the skill to be a 20-25 goal scorer with a solid defensive game.

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11-15-2012, 09:03 PM
  #658
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Brian Burke has been adamant that he will not give up futures for short-term help, which is what Roberto Luongo would be to the Leafs. IMO, he only has another two--maybe three-- decent years left.

So any recent first round picks are off the table in any deal for Roberto. That includes Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy, Morgan Rielly or second round picks that have been performing exceptionally thus far like Matt Finn.

Older prospects like Joe Colborne, Nazem Kadri, and Matt Frattin won't be moved either. Needless to say, Jake Gardiner won't be involved in any trade.

That leaves the likes of Nik Kulemin, Clarke MacArthur, Cody Franson, etc., and any pick not in the first round up for trade.

If it's Kulemin, it'll most likely be him straight up for Roberto. If it's MacArthur, the Leafs will likely add a second round pick.

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11-15-2012, 09:06 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Yeah, and that was with a playoff team to put them over the top. Toronto's one of the worst teams in the league.
And why do you suppose you are one of the worst teams in the league?

Maybe it was the 28th best goaltending?


And to think tampa and columbus have improved. Yowza.

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11-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #660
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and the Canucks give up Luongo for a third liner player because...

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11-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
And why do you suppose you are one of the worst teams in the league?

Maybe it was the 28th best goaltending?


And to think tampa and columbus have improved. Yowza.
When you're one of the worst teams in the league, you cannot place the blame on one inadequacy. The team, as a whole, sucks. Roberto isn't a miracle man that will come here and fix ****.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:08 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Because Kulemin is a much better and more well-rounded player and brings a lot more than Mason Raymond does. And statistically he's improved every year, this past season was bad for him but his head wasn't in the game because of the personal issues he had to deal with in regards to his friends on Lokomotiv dying in the plane crash including his father figure/mentor, Korolev.

Even if he doesn't hit 30 again he has all the skill to be a 20-25 goal scorer with a solid defensive game.
LOL I wouldn't talk if I was you as you just proved you know nothing about the Canucks. Raymond is a staple on the Canucks penalty kill, one which has been top 3 in the league every year the last couple years. Raymond is just as good if not better defensively. Only thing Kulemin does better is hit, to make up for that Raymond has blazing speed.

Kulemin had an off year because his head wasn't in it? But Raymond can't have an off year because of a career threatening injury eh?

Kulemin has only reached 40+ points once in his career, Raymond's basically done it twice as the season prior he had 39 points in 70 games, he could have easily passed 40 if he played the extra 12 games.

Also Kulemin's one good year looks like a fluke if you look at his shooting %s. He usually shoots around 11% and then all of a sudden jumped to 17%. This year he fell to 7% which is closer to what I'd expect than the 17% he had the year prior.

Raymond has never had a huge spike in his %. He's had a couple seasons at 11% and a couple around 8% so you can tell none of his seasons were much different.

On top of that Mason Raymond probably could have outscored Kulemin this past season had he gotten to play the extra 15 games! All he needed was 8 points to match and 9 to pass Kulemin's totals this year. That's right a player coming off a career threatening injury may have outproduced a completely healthy player who was dealing with emotional problems (which other players were as well, yet their play didn't drop). Don't forget these guys are professionals so using that as an excuse is somewhat weak as he was not the only player dealing with that issue, yet he had the biggest if not the only major drop in stats


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Old
11-15-2012, 09:14 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
and the Canucks give up Luongo for a third liner player because...
There's no market for him due to his terrible contract.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #664
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
When you're one of the worst teams in the league, you cannot place the blame on one inadequacy. The team, as a whole, sucks. Roberto isn't a miracle man that will come here and fix ****.
While we have some issues, our goaltending flat out sucked last season.

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11-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #665
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There's no market for him due to his terrible contract.
is that why its been reported there are 5 teams interested in him?

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11-15-2012, 09:19 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
When you're one of the worst teams in the league, you cannot place the blame on one inadequacy. The team, as a whole, sucks. Roberto isn't a miracle man that will come here and fix ****.
So no dispute you have the worst goaltending tandem in the nhl?

Yeah...luongo's not going to improve that at all. I wonder what 40 goals fewer in the net would mean in the W/L column.

Might shatter the prospectophilias' dreams of a first overall pick by making the palyoffs for the first time in a decade.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
There's no market for him due to his terrible contract.


If you want a player, you will have to give up some value. We would be asking for Gardiner +, but because of the contract and lack of teams interested it has dropped to lesser prospects and picks. If all you want to do is offer players that would compete for a third line spot, then you aren't getting Luongo. If fine if you don't want him, but the offer was insulting.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-15-2012 at 09:21 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
11-15-2012, 09:22 PM
  #668
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is that why its been reported there are 5 teams interested in him?
Hey guys, if this turns into a pissin' contest it's gonna get shut down.

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11-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #669
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is that why its been reported there are 5 teams interested in him?
Five teams interested is NOTHING for a goalie who is arguably top 5 in the league as of right now. You realize that, right?

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11-15-2012, 09:28 PM
  #670
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Five teams interested is NOTHING for a goalie who is arguably top 5 in the league as of right now. You realize that, right?
you do realize 5 teams is 5 MORE THAN NONE which is what the user I quoted said right? Obviously there isn't going to be a big market when he has a NTC. Rick Nash had a NMC and because of that the market was only 5 teams as well so does that mean there was no interest in Nash?

Also considering how most teams already have more than capable starters why would they acquire an upgrade at a position not really needed at the cost of other positions.

Anaheim has a former top 10 goalie who is still good, Boston has Rask, Buffalo has a top 10 goalie, Calgary has a top 10 goalie, Carolina has a top 10-15 goalie, Colorado acquired a young goalie last year, Columbus just acquired a goalie so they won't be in the market, Dallas has a top 15 goalie, Detroit has a top 15 goalie, LA has a top 2 goalie, Minnesota has a top 10-15 goalie, Montreal has a top 10 goalie, Nashville has a top 5 goalie, NJ has one of the best goalies of all time, NYI has a former top 10 goalie who is still good, NYR has a top 2 goalie, Philly has a former top 10 goalie who their stuck with, Phoenix has a goalie coming off a spectacular year, Pittsburgh has a top 10-15 goalie, St.Louis has 2 goalies who are coming off great years, Tampa Bay just got a goalie, Washington has 2 decent goalies.

That leaves Chicago who's goalie was pretty good a year prior but declined this year, Edmonton who has a young goalie who did decent this past year and an expensive backup who could start, Florida who's tandem did pretty good and have the best goalie prospect, Ottawa who has a more than capable starter along with 2 good up coming goalies, San Jose who has a goalie who won a cup and is an alright starter, and then Toronto who is the only team without a capable starter.

Realistically only Toronto needs a major upgrade in net as the other 2 teams who did already got goalies so they most likely aren't in the market for one anymore. So 5 teams to be interested is pretty good seeing how only 6 may have interest and only one has a dire need for an upgrade


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Old
11-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #671
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
Five teams interested is NOTHING for a goalie who is arguably top 5 in the league as of right now. You realize that, right?
In all fairness...how many teams need a goalie...how many can take on his contract? 5 is actually surprisingly high when you consider his NTC and the fact teams like Tampa and CBJ have already addressed their goalie issues.

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11-15-2012, 09:43 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
In all fairness...how many teams need a goalie...how many can take on his contract? 5 is actually surprisingly high when you consider his NTC and the fact teams like Tampa and CBJ have already addressed their goalie issues.
and how has that worked out for them? Both have questionmarks. Both could fail miserably.

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11-15-2012, 09:45 PM
  #673
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is that why its been reported there are 5 teams interested in him?
And are those true reports? We also heard him to Tampa was a slam dunk.

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11-15-2012, 09:50 PM
  #674
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And are those true reports? We also heard him to Tampa was a slam dunk.
Its more credible than just Leafs fans saying there is no market and I think Mckenzie and Drefer both said TB wasn't interested but other media sources said they were. McKenzie and Dreger have said there are 5 teams interested


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Old
11-15-2012, 09:50 PM
  #675
Liferleafer
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and how has that worked out for them? Both have questionmarks. Both could fail miserably.
Not sure how that changes my post. My point was 5 is a pretty high number of teams, i guess you could add them and call it 7 if you'd like.

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