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Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:40 PM
  #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
Twelve percent smaller ones are.
Can you guarantee that those "raises" would actually lead to a decrease in the players share?

It's only a concession if they were willing to put conditions on it in case revenues didn't grow as much as they were projected to. Oh wait, that's called cost certainty, my bad.

And does anyone else feel an odd sense of deja vu with the whole "two weeks" thing yet feel odd because it shouldn't be here?

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11-15-2012, 08:40 PM
  #827
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Won't Fehr just respond to this by saying

"The PA does not support this, we actually want to try to make a deal"

...And then just sit on their hands like usual?

The NHL looks like they are purposefully not negotiating and the PA can continue to play chicken while at least publically looking like they want to do something.

I dont understand this move from the owners perspective??

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11-15-2012, 08:41 PM
  #828
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The PA should just reply to Gary

"You wanna take 2 weeks fine, if you wanna take two months thats fine by us too its your lock out"

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11-15-2012, 08:41 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
At least try to hide your bias. It's the league's lockout to prevent a potential strike.

The moratorium was offered. The PA would have to agree.

The PA is making money, only. The NHL isn't only making money.
A strike would never of happened, everyone knew they would be taking a cut. It would make ZERO sense for them to strike.

the moratorium being offered is just stupid and obviously a ploy to see how tight the union is. "Hi I'm calling to tell you that I don't want to call you" thanks.... how about just not calling, just like its been for the past few days.

PA is making money, but if we are 50% (ish) of teams are losing money during the year, they're practically making money in this lockout.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:41 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Orca Smash View Post
Yes, but my point is their extreme one sided viewpoints in favor of whatever bettman does, and extreme criticism whenever fehr uses "bargaining tactics"

All Im saying is I dont see how anyone can herald this as a great psychological bargaining tactic by bettman. Taking two weeks off.
Bettman isn't saying he wants to take 2 weeks off. He's saying that if the NHLPA isn't willing to move from their offer, then there's no point in meeting.

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11-15-2012, 08:41 PM
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
and it appears to most fans the NHLPA are the bad guys.
Yes because to us they are being obstinate and refusing to negotiate in a certain way to reach a deal that many of us see as being fair to both sides.

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11-15-2012, 08:42 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Orca Smash View Post
They also claim their firmly behind him. I dont like him, as i said I thought he was a poor choice, you dont have to convince people of your stance, but the players do say they support him.

My point was if fehr suggested two weeks off, hed be looked at critically and poorly in this area, but bettman does it, and its great.

I dont like either bettman or fehr personally.
It's a negotiating tactic and the side with more leverage is the side that will likely use such a tactic. The PA isn't in the position to use that kind of slant and if they did (and even if they agree to it), it flies in the face of much of what they've preached throughout this process. I'm sure Fehr knows the tactic the league is trying to pull and he'll probably explain to the players quite well. Even if it only serves to unite the PA even more, it still spells doom for them. No matter how you look at this, things have escalated too far for either side to 'win' at this point.

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11-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #833
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If the NHL doesn't want to offer more than they have, their strategy has to be to split the membership and alienate Fehr from the PA's core... The logic for this 2 week break has to be that the League feels it ratchets up the pressure and somehow paints Fehr as the Player's enemy.

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11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
and it appears to most fans the NHLPA are the bad guys.
Funnily enough you are correct, the people who lockout and ask for $$$ are the bad guys. What's even funnier is most people supported the PA until the league got caught trying to find where fans were sitting and then offered the 50/50 split with a make whole that just took from the other players. I think some people just follow the leader (not all) but the league has played it well so far from a PR stand point.

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11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
The PA should just reply to Gary

"You wanna take 2 weeks fine, if you wanna take two months thats fine by us too its your lock out"
I expect something like that, and lots of crybaby tweets from the players.

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11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
A strike would never of happened, everyone knew they would be taking a cut. It would make ZERO sense for them to strike.

the moratorium being offered is just stupid and obviously a ploy to see how tight the union is. "Hi I'm calling to tell you that I don't want to call you" thanks.... how about just not calling, just like its been for the past few days.

PA is making money, but if we are 50% (ish) of teams are losing money during the year, they're practically making money in this lockout.
Except a strike during the season could have kept them from taking a cut.

This would make it official, as well as this is forcing the NHLPA to admit they don't want to bargain.

Point being?

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11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
  #837
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Isnt 2 weeks the day when the players miss another paycheque?

Edit: well, basically. Friday Nov 30th - no pay day.

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11-15-2012, 08:45 PM
  #838
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Who is the most respected NHL veteran player on Twitter, I was hoping someone like Jarome Iginla was on but do not see it, We need someone like him to speak up and get players to rally around him. I know Andy MacDonald is on Twitter but he seems prepared to sit out a year

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11-15-2012, 08:46 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Nope, but he is calling a spade a spade, Fehr has been more concerned with trying to aggitate the owners then trying to negotiate a deal at this point. As I said earleir hopefully this wakes the players up a little so that they force Don to stop his gamesmenship and to seriously negotiate a deal. The NHL is effectively putting the ball in the PA's court be saying we have no problem taking time off, come back to us when your ready to make a deal.
Good idea by the league, if the players"just wanna play" they will have to show it instead of just whining,sulking and blaming.

I honestly believe the league should make their proposals public or at least to the agents so every player knows exactly what has been offered and what the players have "given up" in concessions.

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11-15-2012, 08:46 PM
  #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinnerdink View Post
Won't Fehr just respond to this by saying

"The PA does not support this, we actually want to try to make a deal"

...And then just sit on their hands like usual?

The NHL looks like they are purposefully not negotiating and the PA can continue to play chicken while at least publically looking like they want to do something.

I dont understand this move from the owners perspective??
The owners are willing to look like the bad guys by propositioning the PA. Either it will lead to the PA making the first move back to the table or it will create a standstill which is no different that what we've seen already in this process, only difference is that this standstill will be official.

If the PA says they don't support it and want to make a deal and then sit on their hands for two weeks, the league will simply say that the PA didn't want to take the break because they said they wanted to make a deal...except they did nothing.

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11-15-2012, 08:47 PM
  #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
If the NHL doesn't want to offer more than they have, their strategy has to be to split the membership and alienate Fehr from the PA's core... The logic for this 2 week break has to be that the League feels it ratchets up the pressure and paints Fehr as the Player's enemy.
Pressure is part of it, but speed is as well.

"We've made our last proposal" is a tactic along the same lines as the two-week break. The owners know Fehr is waiting until the point where he thinks their best offer will come, and they're trying to speed up the process and get things going faster.

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11-15-2012, 08:47 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Except a strike during the season could have kept them from taking a cut.

This would make it official, as well as this is forcing the NHLPA to admit they don't want to bargain.

Point being?
If the league is willing to throw away a season for the betterment of the league as a whole, what difference does it make if it's 10 or 81 games into the season? If teams are really losing money, the share would have been reduced regardless of what had happened in a season.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:48 PM
  #843
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It's interesting how quickly not negotiating actually becomes an accepted form of negotiating, when the owners do it.

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11-15-2012, 08:50 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
and it appears to most fans the NHLPA are the bad guys.
Only "fans" in this thread, which are heavily biased for the NHL.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:51 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
It's interesting how quickly not negotiating actually becomes an accepted form of negotiating, when the owners do it.
Well, they're not going to negotiate because the players aren't willing to accept (ahem) i mean negotiate.

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11-15-2012, 08:51 PM
  #846
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A strike would never of happened, everyone knew they would be taking a cut. It would make ZERO sense for them to strike.
Are you telling me that the PA behavior has made sense so far?

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11-15-2012, 08:51 PM
  #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
It's interesting how quickly not negotiating actually becomes an accepted form of negotiating, when the owners do it.
Except that the NHL is threatening to do that type of negotiating in the middle of November whereas the PA has been doing that since........Fehr took over.

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:52 PM
  #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfan22 View Post
Who is the most respected NHL veteran player on Twitter, I was hoping someone like Jarome Iginla was on but do not see it, We need someone like him to speak up and get players to rally around him. I know Andy MacDonald is on Twitter but he seems prepared to sit out a year
I seen Iginla interviewed about a month ago and he said all the things, he wasn't beating the PA drum but hoping "both sides come to an agreement" He knows he's losing millions for this charade and has already lost a good chunk of change from the last one so I'm sure he's not impressed by the stalling. But he's a class act and you could tell by the way he was answering the questions.

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11-15-2012, 08:52 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
It's interesting how quickly not negotiating actually becomes an accepted form of negotiating, when the owners do it.
Don't you think the hypocriticalness is on both sides? Fehr does something it's good negotiation tactics while NHL does something, it's proof they don't care. NHL does something and they're doing good PR while PA is just sitting on their hands. It's going both ways which is why I'm not sure why some people even have a side anymore.

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11-15-2012, 08:52 PM
  #850
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Well, they're not going to negotiate because the players aren't willing to accept (ahem) i mean negotiate.
And what exactly would you call what the PA has been doing over the past few months?

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