HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-15-2012, 08:53 PM
  #851
jkrdevil
UnRegistered User
 
jkrdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 30,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
The PA should just reply to Gary

"You wanna take 2 weeks fine, if you wanna take two months thats fine by us too its your lock out"
They can respond like all they want, but it is their membership that are missing paychecks and have too short of careers to make it up. We are quickly reaching the point to where even if the players end up "winning" the current active players still end up losing.

The owners are dicks, but they have enormous leverage. The players in the end are going to be forced to play the owners game here. Doing it sooner than later might be better for the active members,

jkrdevil is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 08:53 PM
  #852
JoeLH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
It's interesting how quickly not negotiating actually becomes an accepted form of negotiating, when the owners do it.
You do really believe that Bettman REALLY wants to sit out 2 weeks? This is a tactic.

Maybe the PA even agrees, and we will have our decision about the 2012-13 season in two weeks. Or they agree to a deal before.

JoeLH is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 08:54 PM
  #853
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,039
vCash: 500
Neither side knows just how serious / adamant the other side is, and how far they'll go. It's like poker. Both Bettman and Fehr are trying to get a read on when the other side has become motivated enough to offer their best deal. This "moratorium" offer is probably Bettman's way of telling the NHLPA that the owners are not that desperate to get things going, and he is hoping to see if the players are starting to feel the pressure to make a deal. The unfortunate thing is that neither side will agree to a deal until they feel that they've pushed the other side as far out of their comfort zone as possible.

Whileee is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 08:55 PM
  #854
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
It's interesting how quickly not negotiating actually becomes an accepted form of negotiating, when the owners do it.
It's even funnier how the player worshipers are getting all upset when GB uses just one of Fehr's strategies.

Orrthebest is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 08:56 PM
  #855
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,629
vCash: 500
Who is upset?

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 08:57 PM
  #856
Steve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can
Posts: 1,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
Are you telling me that the PA behavior has made sense so far?
tough to argue either way, professionally no. That being said the "best offer" has been improved. This is a negotiation, the players are trying to keep as much as they can. They are losing and will lose this deal, they are just trying to secure as much as possible. From that perspective, yes it does make sense and it's working. The NHL is too concerned with Fehr now. The Fehr brothers are a great good cop, bad cop team.

You could argue the NHL's behavior has been questionalbe also. Gary said no one wants to see Hockey back as soon as possible. I must have missed the fine print where he would ask for 2 weeks to stall talks??? it must have been the same fine print used in the "best offer" where the players pay themselves out of future revenues.

Both sides are equally poor here.

Steve is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 08:59 PM
  #857
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Don't you think the hypocriticalness is on both sides? Fehr does something it's good negotiation tactics while NHL does something, it's proof they don't care. NHL does something and they're doing good PR while PA is just sitting on their hands. It's going both ways which is why I'm not sure why some people even have a side anymore.
The owners with the right system in place means many teams will be doing well with maybe a few exceptions. The players want to bleed the well dry because, they could careless about the future of the next crops of players.

It's pretty obvious, and most of the players behind Fehr are the ones who'll lose the most.

The owners of many teams have been losing money for years, what have the players lost?

Ugene Malkin is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:00 PM
  #858
Steve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can
Posts: 1,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
And what exactly would you call what the PA has been doing over the past few months?
Trying to get as much as they can. If you're boss offered you 90% of your salary can I assume you would happily accept it and just play along to make his/her life easier? Or would you argue your point to try and get something back out of it.

Steve is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:01 PM
  #859
ScottyBowman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
The owners with the right system in place means many teams will be doing well with maybe a few exceptions. The players want to bleed the well dry because, they could careless about the future of the next crops of players.

It's pretty obvious, and most of the players behind Fehr are the ones who'll lose the most.
We heard the same BS in 2004.

ScottyBowman is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #860
Steve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can
Posts: 1,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
We heard the same BS in 2004.
And you will again in 2018 ish

Steve is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #861
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Trying to get as much as they can. If you're boss offered you 90% of your salary can I assume you would happily accept it and just play along to make his/her life easier? Or would you argue your point to try and get something back out of it.
As opposed to said boss saying "business is way down, enjoy your layoff"?

Morgoth Bauglir is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #862
JoeLH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
We heard the same BS in 2004.
And it was all true. Or why are all the former players today regret the lost season?

JoeLH is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:03 PM
  #863
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
As opposed to said boss saying "business is way down, enjoy your layoff"?
Business isn't way down. It's way up.

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:03 PM
  #864
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
tough to argue either way, professionally no. That being said the "best offer" has been improved. This is a negotiation, the players are trying to keep as much as they can. They are losing and will lose this deal, they are just trying to secure as much as possible. From that perspective, yes it does make sense and it's working. The NHL is too concerned with Fehr now. The Fehr brothers are a great good cop, bad cop team.

You could argue the NHL's behavior has been questionalbe also. Gary said no one wants to see Hockey back as soon as possible. I must have missed the fine print where he would ask for 2 weeks to stall talks??? it must have been the same fine print used in the "best offer" where the players pay themselves out of future revenues.

Both sides are equally poor here.
I think the PA was idiotic after about the first week of November.

They're at the point of no return where so much money has been lost that no deal will help them gain back more financially.

If they were smart, they'd counter, Keep UFA/arbitration the same, accept make-whole/linkage(maybe add in a few million on tom). Ask for 12 year contract limits and keep the 5% variance stuff. The NHL has given them numerous small benefits in their offer(Single hotel rooms, more medical and training personell etc.).

Just end it seriously, there isnt much room to move for the PA, anywhere but directly towards the NHL's offer will get tossed out the door.

Do they want to miss another 100-200 million dollars in paycheques?

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:04 PM
  #865
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
We heard the same BS in 2004.
Yes, but I'm sure they weren't counting on salaries to grow right along with the revenue hikes. They wanted stability figuring the revenue was going to top off but it didn't.

Ugene Malkin is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:05 PM
  #866
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Business isn't way down. It's way up.
Not everywhere. Not everyone gets to play for Toronto.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:06 PM
  #867
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Trying to get as much as they can. If you're boss offered you 90% of your salary can I assume you would happily accept it and just play along to make his/her life easier? Or would you argue your point to try and get something back out of it.
And they've gotten benefits from it.

And they wont be losing much salary.

And they'll be getting raises starting 2014-2015ish because revenue will grow.

This isn't take a permanent 10%(less with make-whole stuff) cut, this is a take a small cut now, then gain much much more later on.

They get more benefits and better treatment behind the scenes, contracts get slightly modified a bit to benefit the league as a whole.

Both sides will win in the end, just like the players won alot last time.

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:06 PM
  #868
Steve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Can
Posts: 1,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
As opposed to said boss saying "business is way down, enjoy your layoff"?
That's not where we are though, we're not looking at contraction/relocation here although one could argue it would help.

How about if your boss said: we believe we’re paying you more than we should. - Quote from Bettman (the players replaced by you)

Steve is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:06 PM
  #869
JAX
Registered User
 
JAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sault Ste. Marie
Country: Canada
Posts: 896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
We heard the same BS in 2004.
Too bad the players didn't hold out for 2 years to try to avoid the cap and then get it anyhow. Maybe this time they will get a multi year holdout and still get it up the ass....but you know what...i'll bet they won't learn and do it again the next time just to proove how stunned they are.

JAX is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #870
Kirk Muller
Registered User
 
Kirk Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brrr -18, Gomez Cold
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
tough to argue either way, professionally no. That being said the "best offer" has been improved. This is a negotiation, the players are trying to keep as much as they can. They are losing and will lose this deal, they are just trying to secure as much as possible. From that perspective, yes it does make sense and it's working. The NHL is too concerned with Fehr now. The Fehr brothers are a great good cop, bad cop team.

You could argue the NHL's behavior has been questionalbe also. Gary said no one wants to see Hockey back as soon as possible. I must have missed the fine print where he would ask for 2 weeks to stall talks??? it must have been the same fine print used in the "best offer" where the players pay themselves out of future revenues.

Both sides are equally poor here.

Its becoming ever closer that the PA has pushed this too far. By Daly's comments, that time seems to be now but we will see if and when the owners offer next. The players just may have watched Fehr sit on his hands as the best offer passed him by.

Was it "working" as you say, maybe. Have they potentially played this tactic too long, maybe as well.

Kirk Muller is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #871
Winger23
Registered User
 
Winger23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Business isn't way down. It's way up.
Are profits?

Winger23 is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #872
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,629
vCash: 500
When did the players hold out exactly?

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:08 PM
  #873
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Yes, but I'm sure they weren't counting on salaries to grow right along with the revenue hikes. They wanted stability figuring the revenue was going to top off but it didn't.
exactly, I dare anyone to say they can predict a business like that 7 years into the future.

The NHL put a 'basic' system into place last time, now it's time to improve that system by getting it to 50/50, increasing revenue sharing considerably and adding in some contract rules(they wont get half of the ones they want but they only really need 5% variance anyway)

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:08 PM
  #874
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Angband via Utumno
Posts: 3,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
That's not where we are though, we're not looking at contraction/relocation here although one could argue it would help.

How about if your boss said: we believe we’re paying you more than we should. - Quote from Bettman (the players replaced by you)
Been there, done that. I've lost a job before because my boss thought I made too much. Feces happens.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #875
KaylaJ
Tungsten!
 
KaylaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hell
Country: United States
Posts: 14,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
The owners with the right system in place means many teams will be doing well with maybe a few exceptions. The players want to bleed the well dry because, they could careless about the future of the next crops of players.

It's pretty obvious, and most of the players behind Fehr are the ones who'll lose the most.

The owners of many teams have been losing money for years, what have the players lost?
Understandable, but what happens if things aren't fixed again? What happens when this upcoming CBA doesn't work? You'll be dealing with players crying poor again saying the owners don't know even though they don't have any answers either. We'll all be back on this same carousel of childish name calling and trying to tear the other apart. I'm not on either side because I have a hard time seeing them talk about trust and good faith when they both know they can't be honest with the other side without being screwed.

KaylaJ is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.