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Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:11 PM
  #876
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Trying to get as much as they can. If you're boss offered you 90% of your salary can I assume you would happily accept it and just play along to make his/her life easier? Or would you argue your point to try and get something back out of it.
Or maybe i wouldnt of sat their huffing and puffing wanting more single hotel rooms, higher per diems, more doctors, trainers etc etc.

These are concessions by the league even tho people dont see them as that.

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11-15-2012, 09:11 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
And they've gotten benefits from it.

And they wont be losing much salary.

And they'll be getting raises starting 2014-2015ish because revenue will grow.

This isn't take a permanent 10%(less with make-whole stuff) cut, this is a take a small cut now, then gain much much more later on.

They get more benefits and better treatment behind the scenes, contracts get slightly modified a bit to benefit the league as a whole.

Both sides will win in the end, just like the players won alot last time.
I'm with you, I think Fehr has done a great job for the players in terms of getting what was not in the NHL's "best offer". If they will discuss the contract rights and the PA still says no, then I would probably support the owners. I do believe, however, the contract rights gets this deal done. When you put an ultimatium down that says you can get your "make whole" that seems to be iffy on actually being "make whole" only if you accept everything we say... I dont' see how that helps anyone. League got to 50/50, PA gets make whole, the rest should be negotiated. neither should accept that's all I'm taking or giving.

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11-15-2012, 09:11 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I think the PA was idiotic after about the first week of November.

They're at the point of no return where so much money has been lost that no deal will help them gain back more financially.

If they were smart, they'd counter, Keep UFA/arbitration the same, accept make-whole/linkage(maybe add in a few million on tom). Ask for 12 year contract limits and keep the 5% variance stuff. The NHL has given them numerous small benefits in their offer(Single hotel rooms, more medical and training personell etc.).

Just end it seriously, there isnt much room to move for the PA, anywhere but directly towards the NHL's offer will get tossed out the door.

Do they want to miss another 100-200 million dollars in paycheques?
I agree if they would have taken the 82 game schedule and bargained for better % of the make whole hockey would be going on as we speak. Instead they cut their nose off their face and here we sit. The biggest prob with the PA is their mentality the biting the hand that feeds them and us against them crap will only cost them money.

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11-15-2012, 09:12 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
That's not where we are though, we're not looking at contraction/relocation here although one could argue it would help.

How about if your boss said: we believe we’re paying you more than we should. - Quote from Bettman (the players replaced by you)
If your boss wanted to lower your pay you'd either accept it or find a new job. The players are free to explore employment opportunities elsewhere in their profession. Of course they won't be able to find an employer that would pay them anywhere near what the NHL does.

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11-15-2012, 09:12 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Understandable, but what happens if things aren't fixed again? What happens when this upcoming CBA doesn't work? You'll be dealing with players crying poor again saying the owners don't know even though they don't have any answers either. We'll all be back on this same carousel of childish name calling and trying to tear the other apart. I'm not on either side because I have a hard time seeing them talk about trust and good faith when they both know they can't be honest with the other side without being screwed.
depends, I could see some contract issues next time around maybe but with 50/50 I dont see much of an issue with HRR next time around.

Plus a huge amount of revenue sharing is being added now, so most likely the league will be much more stable as a whole. This CBA will be quite a good thing for a league. At least within this kind of system.

only problem is the cap, that may get out of hand too fast but it's hard to predict.

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11-15-2012, 09:15 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Can confirm what @aaronward_nhl first reported, that Gary Bettman suggested to NHLPA's Don Fehr that two sides take 2-week moratorium

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Fehr told Bettman he'd like to talk to his membership about it. NHLPA plans on responding tmrw
Finally the NHLPA gets to vote on something.

I bet they vote 'No'.

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11-15-2012, 09:15 PM
  #882
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If your boss wanted to lower your pay you'd either accept it or find a new job. The players are free to explore employment opportunities elsewhere in their profession. Of course they won't be able to find an employer that would pay them anywhere near what the NHL does.
I'm not sure, but I don't think they can simply lower your salary or let you go because they want to, I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

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11-15-2012, 09:16 PM
  #883
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Yes, but I'm sure they weren't counting on salaries to grow right along with the revenue hikes. They wanted stability figuring the revenue was going to top off but it didn't.
If they were only getting 54 instead of 57 this cba would have been easier to negotiate. The teams would be way better off. So really the only mistake of the last cba was including that escalator to the players for revenue growth. Before the last cba teams were losing around 225mil as a collective. Now they are on the +side about 120-200mil.

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11-15-2012, 09:16 PM
  #884
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I'm with you, I think Fehr has done a great job for the players in terms of getting what was not in the NHL's "best offer". If they will discuss the contract rights and the PA still says no, then I would probably support the owners. I do believe, however, the contract rights gets this deal done. When you put an ultimatium down that says you can get your "make whole" that seems to be iffy on actually being "make whole" only if you accept everything we say... I dont' see how that helps anyone. League got to 50/50, PA gets make whole, the rest should be negotiated. neither should accept that's all I'm taking or giving.
I think he did a solid job until the beginning of November. He definitely made the owners give in especially with this make-whole offer.

But He needs to accept linkage and then the league will become lenient on the contract issues.

I'm on the PA's side with the contract issues, only the 5% variance is important(and maybe a 10-12 year limit just in case) everything else is just unneccesary.

But I dont think the NHL will budge on that until linkage/hrr is agreed upon.

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11-15-2012, 09:16 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
When did the players hold out exactly?
I doubt there is any players in here so you shouldn't talk to us like a PA schill. Oh wait this is a lockout not a strike right?

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11-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Understandable, but what happens if things aren't fixed again? What happens when this upcoming CBA doesn't work? You'll be dealing with players crying poor again saying the owners don't know even though they don't have any answers either. We'll all be back on this same carousel of childish name calling and trying to tear the other apart. I'm not on either side because I have a hard time seeing them talk about trust and good faith when they both know they can't be honest with the other side without being screwed.
Exactly, but why?

Because to actually fix the problem means a complete reset, which everyone knows the players will never go for, even knowing they have been living high off the hog for years, and they'll never settle for fixing things for generations to come, just theirs.

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11-15-2012, 09:19 PM
  #887
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The two sides will agree instantaneously about the 2 week moratorium. In fact this should be a spring board for negotiation. Why only 2 weeks? As long as fans get ****ed over they should negotiate to make the moratorium as long as possible.

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11-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #888
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@darenmillard: Per Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly, "Don (fehr) called Gary (Bettman) and suggested he didn't know how to proceed from here. . Cont

@darenmillard: Gary suggested that perhaps a moratorium might be in order. We have not heard back.

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11-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I think the PA was idiotic after about the first week of November.

They're at the point of no return where so much money has been lost that no deal will help them gain back more financially.

If they were smart, they'd counter, Keep UFA/arbitration the same, accept make-whole/linkage(maybe add in a few million on tom). Ask for 12 year contract limits and keep the 5% variance stuff. The NHL has given them numerous small benefits in their offer(Single hotel rooms, more medical and training personell etc.).

Just end it seriously, there isnt much room to move for the PA, anywhere but directly towards the NHL's offer will get tossed out the door.

Do they want to miss another 100-200 million dollars in paycheques?
People keep arguing this but he PA's job is to look at this as a whole moving forward. 57% last year means it's 50% this year, meaning the NHL look for 47% at the next lockout. They are fighting for more today, leaving more come the next cuts. Moving forward, the savings (percentage wise) will dwarf the losses this year - just not for the older individual players.

Owners handed out large deals and cried poor, as little as 24hrs before the lockout. Both sides made this mess, both sides need to solve it. Both sides need to ACCEPT they deal they "want" isn't the deal they will "get".

How do you think the Leafs/Habs/NYR/Canucks etc.. are feeling right now?

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11-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
A strike would never of happened, everyone knew they would be taking a cut. It would make ZERO sense for them to strike.

the moratorium being offered is just stupid and obviously a ploy to see how tight the union is. "Hi I'm calling to tell you that I don't want to call you" thanks.... how about just not calling, just like its been for the past few days.

PA is making money, but if we are 50% (ish) of teams are losing money during the year, they're practically making money in this lockout.
You do know who Don Fehr is, right?

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11-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I'm not sure, but I don't think they can simply lower your salary or let you go because they want to, I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
Your boss can let you go if they don't like your face in most fields. If they want to get rid of you they'll find a way.

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11-15-2012, 09:21 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Hutz View Post
Finally the NHLPA gets to vote on something.

I bet they vote 'No'.
Who says they get to vote? Fehr will brainwash them and then ask what he should do....and I'm sure they will see it the way he "persuaded" them to and I'm sure "stalling" will be the answer.

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11-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
You do know who Don Fehr is, right?
he may be an idiot, but he's definitely NOT stupid

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11-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
@darenmillard: Per Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly, "Don (fehr) called Gary (Bettman) and suggested he didn't know how to proceed from here. . Cont

@darenmillard: Gary suggested that perhaps a moratorium might be in order. We have not heard back.
I assumed this was all a figured out and they approached the PA with it and now it seems that it was suggested in conversation. I'm pretty sure that doesn't change the psychology behind Bettman's suggestion.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:24 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
@darenmillard: Per Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly, "Don (fehr) called Gary (Bettman) and suggested he didn't know how to proceed from here. . Cont

@darenmillard: Gary suggested that perhaps a moratorium might be in order. We have not heard back.
Haha, I know how he will respond....he will stall......

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11-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
Who says they get to vote? Fehr will brainwash them and then ask what he should do....and I'm sure they will see it the way he "persuaded" them to and I'm sure "stalling" will be the answer.
Yea reading that memo, he'll probably just word it in a way to make the NHL look terrible, rather than keep the wording neutral and let them decide for themselves.

He definitely has a little bit too much power over the PA there.

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11-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #897
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Who says they get to vote? Fehr will brainwash them and then ask what he should do....and I'm sure they will see it the way he "persuaded" them to and I'm sure "stalling" will be the answer.
Lol, people here look at Fehr like he's some mind altering genius. The PA pulled him from retirement b/c they were ready for a fight. Some of these players are dumb, some are very intelligent, and some rest in the middle like the rest of us. Pretty sure I didn't see Fehr in x-men

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11-15-2012, 09:26 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
@darenmillard: Per Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly, "Don (fehr) called Gary (Bettman) and suggested he didn't know how to proceed from here. . Cont

@darenmillard: Gary suggested that perhaps a moratorium might be in order. We have not heard back.
Don didn't know how to proceed?

Let's see... Try negotiating a deal? Make an offer? Ask the players what they want to do now and actually listen to them? There's lots he can do.

Fehr's really lucky Gary didn't tell him what he really thought Fehr should do.

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11-15-2012, 09:27 PM
  #899
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Ive been laid off because i refused a reduction in pay. i went out and found another job.

I love how people try to relate the players to real life jobs. In no way shape or form do NHL players have a job thay is similiar to the average joe. So why do posters on here insist on relating the players issues to that of the regular joe? Seems borderline retarded to try and make the connection.

Lets say i was making the average salary an NHL player makes but it was in a real world job. I was forced with a wage reduction i would have the option of looming for other employment. Now to keep it in a realistic view I would have to assume the competition was offering 10% of my pay (remember im an avg nhl not the low end not the high end) or less. I personally think my choice would be easy.

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11-15-2012, 09:28 PM
  #900
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Don didn't know how to proceed?

Let's see... Try negotiating a deal? Make an offer? Ask the players what they want to do now and actually listen to them? There's lots he can do.

He's really lucky Gary didn't tell him what he really thought Fehr should do.
simple, Don(and the players are probably convinced too) doesnt wanna get off delinkage, the players think it's insurance for them to get paid, they just dont realize the NHL will NOT cave for at least an entire season on delinkage, after that they'll probably accept it but by then there isnt even a point.

He also probably doesnt wanna give any contract issues towards the owners, so we've hit a brick wall.

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