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Hockey in Britain part 3

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:22 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
16 year old getting small minutes. It's not that rare tbh

#3 overall has 4 points in 22GP
#12 overall has 2 points in 23GP
#13 overall has 4 points in 21GP
#17 overall has 0 points in 10GP
#21 overall has 2 points in 21GP

Production for rookies usually picks up after Christmas. Most trades go down around World Junior time and it's when teams decide if their rookie can take on a bigger role or not.

I haven't seen a Barrie game yet and doubt I'll see one unless it's on TV but I hear his stats aren't displaying his ability.
Yeah but he's also a -6.

I know I argued against it before but I really don't think he'd have any intention of playing for GB, he probably sees himself as a Canadian nationally since he has no English blood and just lived there, and he's just too good. And with his brother, I think if he wanted to, he would already have done so by now. Plus with Sir Tony in charge now, I'd be surprised if they're even asked to play.

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11-15-2012, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
Yeah but he's also a -6.

I know I argued against it before but I really don't think he'd have any intention of playing for GB, he probably sees himself as a Canadian nationally since he has no English blood and just lived there, and he's just too good. And with his brother, I think if he wanted to, he would already have done so by now. Plus with Sir Tony in charge now, I'd be surprised if they're even asked to play.
-6 is no biggy for a 16 year old in the OHL either lol

Last season Connor Brown was a -72 and got drafted by Toronto in the 6th round and now he's doing really well lol

It was always a pipe dream that he'd play for the country he was born and grew up playing hockey in but still sucks seeing him take 1 step further away.

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11-16-2012, 03:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
-6 is no biggy for a 16 year old in the OHL either lol

Last season Connor Brown was a -72 and got drafted by Toronto in the 6th round and now he's doing really well lol

It was always a pipe dream that he'd play for the country he was born and grew up playing hockey in but still sucks seeing him take 1 step further away.
Wow, -72? That's awful...

But anyway, I think it would be good for Perlini to choose to play for GB, cannot really see him having a future with Hockey Canada.

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11-16-2012, 05:24 PM
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Didn't know there was a Sky Sports show about the Elite League Ice Hockey. Was flicking through the channels whilst the video's where on Children in Need and I noticed it came.

Edinburgh Capital's goalkeeper doesn't look like someone who could catch a cold.

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11-16-2012, 05:43 PM
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Didn't know there was a Sky Sports show about the Elite League Ice Hockey. Was flicking through the channels whilst the video's where on Children in Need and I noticed it came.

Edinburgh Capital's goalkeeper doesn't look like someone who could catch a cold.
This right here is why hockey fails in this country, a hockey fan didn't even know there was actually hockey on our TV

They used to show live games and full non-live games, but because the Elite league are idiots nobody watched it


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11-17-2012, 05:47 AM
  #31
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I did, along with anyone who was unfortunate enough to be drinking in the pub I was running at the time, they also had to put up with the 'as live' playoff games being shown in the afternoon, and NHL on the fly every night until football games started.

People actually started getting into it, especially Panthers games that were on. Also ended up with people betting on the Cup finals and watching the as live games without knowing the results, that was fun.

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11-17-2012, 06:45 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
This right here is why hockey fails in this country, a hockey fan didn't even know there was actually hockey on our TV

They used to show live games and full non-live games, but because the Elite league are idiots nobody watched it
Maybe if there was more exposure to hockey in GB like NHL,KHL,SEL and your local league,then it would create interest in this great sport and MAYBE just maybe it would convince parents to send their kids to hockey rather than football.

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11-17-2012, 07:43 AM
  #33
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Maybe if there was more exposure to hockey in GB like NHL,KHL,SEL and your local league,then it would create interest in this great sport and MAYBE just maybe it would convince parents to send their kids to hockey rather than football.
Other than boots, can you think of any equipment anywhere near the cost of even second hand hockey gear? That is the main barrier, especially in former industrial areas.

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11-17-2012, 07:47 AM
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Other than boots, can you think of any equipment anywhere near the cost of even second hand hockey gear? That is the main barrier, especially in former industrial areas.
Latvia is way worse finnancially than GB and yet we still can produce an 1 rounder in NHL draft,it`s all about the dedication of parents,trust me if hockey was heavily marketed in GB it wouldnt be a problem.

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11-17-2012, 08:00 AM
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Latvia is way worse finnancially than GB and yet we still can produce an 1 rounder in NHL draft,it`s all about the dedication of parents,trust me if hockey was heavily marketed in GB it wouldnt be a problem.
Like for like comparisons rarely work well when the culture is so different.

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11-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #36
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Latvia is way worse finnancially than GB and yet we still can produce an 1 rounder in NHL draft,it`s all about the dedication of parents,trust me if hockey was heavily marketed in GB it wouldnt be a problem.
If a UK citizen managed to get into the NHL draft....so what. GB citizens have gotten to the NBA and yet Basketball in the UK, aside from one or two teams, most basketball teams here play in front of maybe a couple hundred people, if that.

As clatchie says its very much a culture thing. Come over here and live here for a while and you'll realise the upward battle it is, a battle that probably wont ever be won long term for the sport.

Hockey was decently marketed here during the 90's, we had occasions like the 17,000 people turning up for a Manchester game, that set a European record for attendance, there were tv highlights on the BBC, and nothing came from it.

Marketing, whist useful is only about 2% of the overall picture.

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11-17-2012, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Maybe if there was more exposure to hockey in GB like NHL,KHL,SEL and your local league,then it would create interest in this great sport and MAYBE just maybe it would convince parents to send their kids to hockey rather than football.
I don't mean the reason for failure in terms of developing players but more the fact that professional teams have such a low following and don't make money.

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11-18-2012, 03:21 AM
  #38
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If a UK citizen managed to get into the NHL draft....so what. GB citizens have gotten to the NBA and yet Basketball in the UK, aside from one or two teams, most basketball teams here play in front of maybe a couple hundred people, if that.

As clatchie says its very much a culture thing. Come over here and live here for a while and you'll realise the upward battle it is, a battle that probably wont ever be won long term for the sport.

Hockey was decently marketed here during the 90's, we had occasions like the 17,000 people turning up for a Manchester game, that set a European record for attendance, there were tv highlights on the BBC, and nothing came from it.

Marketing, whist useful is only about 2% of the overall picture.
Cultures can be changed,canadians werent born hockey fans,finns werent born hockey fans,latvians werent born hockey fans,they were MADE hockey fans over the course of time.

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11-18-2012, 05:34 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
If a UK citizen managed to get into the NHL draft....so what. GB citizens have gotten to the NBA and yet Basketball in the UK, aside from one or two teams, most basketball teams here play in front of maybe a couple hundred people, if that.

As clatchie says its very much a culture thing. Come over here and live here for a while and you'll realise the upward battle it is, a battle that probably wont ever be won long term for the sport.

Hockey was decently marketed here during the 90's, we had occasions like the 17,000 people turning up for a Manchester game, that set a European record for attendance, there were tv highlights on the BBC, and nothing came from it.

Marketing, whist useful is only about 2% of the overall picture.
Basketball has much more long-term potential than ice hockey. Given our relative diverse culture (I.e a large black populous) and the interest that social group shows in basktball, it is only a matter of time before we are a solid international team.

It is also is/can be played in schools.

Basketball will in 25-30 years IMO be a very significant niche sport here. It won't rival football, but it will be popular.

The one problem basketball has is that the majority of popular sports over here have major leagues/events played here. Football, Cricket, Golf, Tennis, Rugby ; all have strong domestic set ups in some way. North America dominates basketball in that sense, so basketball certainly has a harder development path because of that.

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11-18-2012, 06:36 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Cultures can be changed,canadians werent born hockey fans,finns werent born hockey fans,latvians werent born hockey fans,they were MADE hockey fans over the course of time.
They were made hockey fans by the climate, and because everyone wasn't obsessed with football.


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Old
11-19-2012, 06:59 PM
  #41
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You know the quality of rinks in this country is bad when a guy from Czech Republic is telling you Bracknell is the worst ice he's ever skated on

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11-19-2012, 07:47 PM
  #42
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You know the quality of rinks in this country is bad when a guy from Czech Republic is telling you Bracknell is the worst ice he's ever skated on
Worst ice I've skated on was in QMJHL rink

The rink was way way too warm.

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11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #43
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Worst ice I've skated on was in QMJHL rink

The rink was way way too warm.
You dont know warm until you've come to Bracknell.

You can watch hockey in a t-shirt and shorts and still feel a little warm.

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11-26-2012, 12:57 PM
  #44
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I'm moving this to hockey in Britain because we're way off topic for the U20 thread lmao

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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
The EIHL games stopped being televised because Sky Sports said they didn't want to anymore as the ratings were poor. Live streams and TV is not the same thing, with TV a new fan could be just flicking through the sports channels to see what's on and find hockey, with a stream you have to actually go searching for it, you will not get new fans with live streams.

The EIHL teams would not make any money from ads on the stream, as it all goes to the website, same as the NHL doesn't make any from the TV ads, it all goes to the network.

I would love to be able to watch free live streams of the EIHL but unfortunately the clubs feel that it would negatively impact their attendances, and they are probably right.
You said they're not the same thing then you compared them right after

No, NHL doesn't make money off the TV ads but the network pays the NHL for the right to broadcast the game so they can sell ad spots and make money off the broadcast.

I never once said "Hey this is a way for EIHL to make money!" I'm saying the advertisement money would go exactly where the money from selling live streams to fans would go.

This is a basic example:
If it costs $30 to do a live stream and you bring in $45 dollars from people paying for live streams, take away the fee of 45 dollars and sell $45+ dollars worth of advertisement to be played during each live stream. Nothing really changes you just need to find companies looking for advertising which is insanely easy in my experience regardless of the event.


It's also 2012. A live stream is not a difficult thing to spread around. The use of social media, you could get the attention of many with a link to a free live stream to a live hockey game going on in your country at the drop of a hat. All it takes is a little effort.

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11-26-2012, 01:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
You said they're not the same thing then you compared them right after
Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
No, NHL doesn't make money off the TV ads but the network pays the NHL for the right to broadcast the game so they can sell ad spots and make money off the broadcast.
Yes the network pays the NHL, but the stream websites do not pay the EIHL clubs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
I never once said "Hey this is a way for EIHL to make money!" I'm saying the advertisement money would go exactly where the money from selling live streams to fans would go.

This is a basic example:
If it costs $30 to do a live stream and you bring in $45 dollars from people paying for live streams, take away the fee of 45 dollars and sell $45+ dollars worth of advertisement to be played during each live stream. Nothing really changes you just need to find companies looking for advertising which is insanely easy in my experience regardless of the event.
You haven't factored in the revenue lost from ticket sales. You're clearly not aware of the typical demographic of a UK hockey fan. Families make up a large proportion of the attendances. Often you have mum and dad who are fans and they have to drag their 2 or 3 kids to the games and pay for them because they can't just leave them at home. Give them the option to watch a live stream and unless they're a season ticket holding die hard fan they are going to watch it and the club loses a **** load of ticket money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
It's also 2012. A live stream is not a difficult thing to spread around. The use of social media, you could get the attention of many with a link to a free live stream to a live hockey game going on in your country at the drop of a hat. All it takes is a little effort.
But it is mostly only going to reach existing fans. Non-hockey fans aren't going to be following Dave Simms or the EIHL official twitter are they?



Until Sky Sports start showing live games again, free online streams are simply not an option for the EIHL.

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11-26-2012, 02:02 PM
  #46
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Are you serious?

Yes

Yes the network pays the NHL, but the stream websites do not pay the EIHL clubs.

I still don't understand the point of what you're saying. Read the scenario I said and tell me exactly what doesn't make sense to you. The money is there either way...



You haven't factored in the revenue lost from ticket sales. You're clearly not aware of the typical demographic of a UK hockey fan. Families make up a large proportion of the attendances. Often you have mum and dad who are fans and they have to drag their 2 or 3 kids to the games and pay for them because they can't just leave them at home. Give them the option to watch a live stream and unless they're a season ticket holding die hard fan they are going to watch it and the club loses a **** load of ticket money.

Yes because hockey fans in North America are so different. We don't have hockey fans here that are parents that drag their kids to games despite having the option to watch the game for free on TV or the internet

If someone would rather watch the game on TV or on the internet it's because the experience of being in the rink was ****. 100% of hockey fans would rather watch a game live and be able to see everything going on, taking in the atmosphere that comes with a hockey game, regardless of what country the games being played in, hockey fans are hockey fans. Odds are those fans who had **** experiences in the rink won't be going back too often regardless of their other options. The point of a live stream or televising the game is to give an option to the people who can't make it to the rink every night.

What if someone from Aberdeen goes to a game in Edinburgh one night and actually enjoyed the experience. Obviously Aberdeen is a good distance away from Edinburgh and he can't exactly go to every home game. This new fans only option is to pay for a live stream to watch the team play? If it was me I'd probably say "**** this" and lose interest pretty quick, seeing as it's not a hockey mad culture, this scenario seems plausible to me. Now if that guy had an option to watch the streams live, maybe next time he's in Edinburgh, he's definitely going to watch another game live.

This scenario isn't completely made up, I know a guy from Orkney who lives in Aberdeen who went to 1 Capitals game in Edinburgh by my request, enjoyed himself but lost interest because he had no way of watching games.


But it is mostly only going to reach existing fans. Non-hockey fans aren't going to be following Dave Simms or the EIHL official twitter are they?

Well twitter is 1 part of social media yes. Pretty simple scenario for you, say Dave Simms, the EIHL official twitter, or even one of the team/players tweet out a link to a live stream of a game, that goes to all their followers. Then there's this magical button called retweet. So if one person clicks that, then all their followers get the tweet which contains the link. Obviously not everyone retweets and not everyone will click the link to watch the stream but it's obviously more than what's being done right now which is NOTHING
Responses are bolded.
Like I said before, for a guy who seemingly wants hockey in Great Britain to grow, you'll say whatever you can to make it sound like it's impossible

Edit:
Also, I'd just like to add, a live stream is insanely easy to set up and there's no reason why an EIHL team couldn't stream their own games on their own website without the use of a live stream website. I just noticed that we didn't seem to understand each other on the whole live stream costs thing.

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11-26-2012, 02:11 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Responses are bolded.
Like I said before, for a guy who seemingly wants hockey in Great Britain to grow, you'll say whatever you can to make it sound like it's impossible

Edit:
Also, I'd just like to add, a live stream is insanely easy to set up and there's no reason why an EIHL team couldn't stream their own games on their own website without the use of a live stream website. I just noticed that we didn't seem to understand each other on the whole live stream costs thing.
Because in this situation it is impossible, the EIHL don't care about growing the game, they just care about making money. If they do free online streams they lose money.

It's as simple as that

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11-26-2012, 02:45 PM
  #48
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Because in this situation it is impossible, the EIHL don't care about growing the game, they just care about making money. If they do free online streams they lose money.

It's as simple as that
Nothings as simple as that in business

A) If you're looking to make money, you don't buy a ****ing EIHL team That even applies to many North American teams. Yes, there's a business side to every sports franchise but you still have to think big picture...

B) It's still not impossible. Have you talked to anyone directly from the league or an individual team about anything of this nature? People used to say it'd be impossible to get the CHL to let EA Sports use their teams/players in a video game but a few years ago EA Sports simply asked and CHL said yes CHL said "We never even thought about this before" but gamers in Canada have been asking for it for years.

C) Like I said, nothing in business is simple as that because I can say that about a concept that you don't understand and to me it's simple but to you it's voodoo. For example, I'm saying that with the use a live stream and some marketing efforts, you can use the live stream to reach people who wouldn't normally get a chance to watch a game. Those people could end up enrolling in hockey, buying merchandise, or even showing up for games.

You can't really get the attention of a potential hockey fan in Stirling by selling tickets at the door in Edinburgh, simple as that

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11-26-2012, 03:02 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Nothings as simple as that in business

A) If you're looking to make money, you don't buy a ****ing EIHL team That even applies to many North American teams. Yes, there's a business side to every sports franchise but you still have to think big picture...

B) It's still not impossible. Have you talked to anyone directly from the league or an individual team about anything of this nature? People used to say it'd be impossible to get the CHL to let EA Sports use their teams/players in a video game but a few years ago EA Sports simply asked and CHL said yes CHL said "We never even thought about this before" but gamers in Canada have been asking for it for years.

C) Like I said, nothing in business is simple as that because I can say that about a concept that you don't understand and to me it's simple but to you it's voodoo. For example, I'm saying that with the use a live stream and some marketing efforts, you can use the live stream to reach people who wouldn't normally get a chance to watch a game. Those people could end up enrolling in hockey, buying merchandise, or even showing up for games.

You can't really get the attention of a potential hockey fan in Stirling by selling tickets at the door in Edinburgh, simple as that
By making money I don't mean profit for the owners, I mean making money so they don't go bankrupt. Since the inception of the EIHL we have seen London, Manchester, Basingstoke and Newcastle (nearly Hull but they were saved by another owner) drop out of the league because they didn't have enough money to be competitive at that level.

I do agree with you that in the long-term live streaming can grow the game and be beneficial, but the EIHL are too short-sighted to see that. In the short-term it isn't really going to make a difference for them, so it's not worth it. Even though growth of the game would benefit them in the future, like I said they are too short-sighted. It's a classic case of would you rather have 100 now or 110 next year, many would take the money now.


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Old
11-27-2012, 06:58 AM
  #50
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It's not cultural...
There has got to be a company like Bell...major media owner and communications company that supplies this for live streaming
http://www.streamit.ca/
It can't be that expensive since many amateur sports teams including High Schools, arts and community groups.
UK is a G7 country and highly tech savy

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