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Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:28 PM
  #901
JAX
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he may be an idiot, but he's definitely NOT stupid
But he is ruthless, he striked before a world series so wiping out a hockey season would be F.A. to him. He also recommended to Goodenow that he would need a 2 year holdout to avoid the salary cap which he was on his way until he got lead out of the PA with a gun to his head.

Fehr doesnt give a poop about the average player, the sport or longterm health of the league, going nuclear for him is an easy option and one I'm sure he prefers as long as he can keep the players blindfolded.

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11-15-2012, 09:30 PM
  #902
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409553

We are extremely disappointed in where we and the Players find ourselves," deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Thursday evening. "And from our perspective, we have made repeated moves in the Players' direction with absolutely no reciprocation. Unfortunately, we have determined we are involved with Union leadership that has no genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Regardless of what we propose, or how we suggest to compromise the answer is "no." At some point you just have to say "enough is enough."

That is sure how it looks and has looked right for weeks.It is about time the league spoke up.It is likely too late though. Fehr is marching the players off to who knows what and dragging the League along.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #903
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Excuse my ignorance but wont this lead to the season being canceled?

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11-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
But he is ruthless, he striked before a world series so wiping out a hockey season would be F.A. to him. He also recommended to Goodenow that he would need a 2 year holdout to avoid the salary cap which he was on his way until he got lead out of the PA with a gun to his head.

Fehr doesnt give a poop about the average player, the sport or longterm health of the league, going nuclear for him is an easy option and one I'm sure he prefers as long as he can keep the players blindfolded.
How much do you know about Fehr?

The funny thing about the WS is that in 1994 the National Labour Relations Board found for the players, so I'm not sure how you blame Fehr for that one.

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11-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #905
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Ive been laid off because i refused a reduction in pay. i went out and found another job.

I love how people try to relate the players to real life jobs. In no way shape or form do NHL players have a job thay is similiar to the average joe. So why do posters on here insist on relating the players issues to that of the regular joe? Seems borderline retarded to try and make the connection.

Lets say i was making the average salary an NHL player makes but it was in a real world job. I was forced with a wage reduction i would have the option of looming for other employment. Now to keep it in a realistic view I would have to assume the competition was offering 10% of my pay (remember im an avg nhl not the low end not the high end) or less. I personally think my choice would be easy.
Take the cut?

really it's make 2.2 million(avg salary) next year instead of 2.4m, then eventually get a raise anyway.(probably 3.4 mil a year within 4 years)

OR not make anything OR make about 100-200k from the KHL/SEL/Swiss league etc.

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11-15-2012, 09:32 PM
  #906
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A strike would never of happened, everyone knew they would be taking a cut. It would make ZERO sense for them to strike
If the league had opened up without a CBA the player certainly may have opted to drag the negotiations and set a March strike date (after collecting most of their salaries and threatening the playoff where the owners collect a ton of revenue) to gain leverage to avoid those certain cuts. That was basically the MLBPA's strategy to avoid a hard cap and contraction in 2002. And it worked then.

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11-15-2012, 09:32 PM
  #907
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simple, Don(and the players are probably convinced too) doesnt wanna get off delinkage, the players think it's insurance for them to get paid, they just dont realize the NHL will NOT cave for at least an entire season on delinkage, after that they'll probably accept it but by then there isnt even a point.

He also probably doesnt wanna give any contract issues towards the owners, so we've hit a brick wall.
When someone who should know better says they don't know how to proceed "from here" then call BS. It should be automatic when the person saying it has the training and experience of both Fehrs. They should have some idea of where to take the next step. If they don't then they should step aside and let someone else take the lead.

Bettman showed some mercy here. He could have pointed to the cliff and said "Over there - we'll be there in a jiff".

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11-15-2012, 09:32 PM
  #908
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I'm not sure, but I don't think they can simply lower your salary or let you go because they want to, I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
There are only two stipulations you cannot be fired for: gender or race. Any other reason, including personal dislike, is grounds for dismissal. An employer does need to provide an initial warning, lest they are forced to cover a week or two's severance pay but, otherwise it isn't difficult. If the company is losing money - revenue does not equate to profit - then layoffs happen in spades.

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11-15-2012, 09:32 PM
  #909
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tough to argue either way, professionally no. That being said the "best offer" has been improved. This is a negotiation, the players are trying to keep as much as they can. They are losing and will lose this deal, they are just trying to secure as much as possible. From that perspective, yes it does make sense and it's working. The NHL is too concerned with Fehr now. The Fehr brothers are a great good cop, bad cop team.

You could argue the NHL's behavior has been questionalbe also. Gary said no one wants to see Hockey back as soon as possible. I must have missed the fine print where he would ask for 2 weeks to stall talks??? it must have been the same fine print used in the "best offer" where the players pay themselves out of future revenues.

Both sides are equally poor here.
Actually it hasn't.

The players would have been much better off taking the owners proposal that would have saved 82 games. No concessions from the league off that offer wll not make up for the money lost due missed games.

Hell, had the NHLPA negotiated off that offer they might have gotten the owners to pay the 'make whole' and played 82 games. But no, the players NEED their raises NOW!!!

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11-15-2012, 09:33 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409553

We are extremely disappointed in where we and the Players find ourselves," deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Thursday evening. "And from our perspective, we have made repeated moves in the Players' direction with absolutely no reciprocation. Unfortunately, we have determined we are involved with Union leadership that has no genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Regardless of what we propose, or how we suggest to compromise the answer is "no." At some point you just have to say "enough is enough."

That is sure how it looks and has looked right for weeks.It is about time the league spoke up.It is likely too late though. Fehr is marching the players off to who knows what and dragging the League along.
Even seeing the tweets from players they have gone absolutely delusional.

Waging war over what is essentially a 5-8% salary cut and a couple contract issues at this point.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:34 PM
  #911
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Don didn't know how to proceed?

Let's see... Try negotiating a deal? Make an offer? Ask the players what they want to do now and actually listen to them? There's lots he can do.

Fehr's really lucky Gary didn't tell him what he really thought Fehr should do.
It sounds like the PA hired a senile old buffoon.

Shows up late, takes forever to get a drink of water, doesn't know what to do.

Is he gonna fall asleep drooling at the next meeting?
Maybe pee himself?

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11-15-2012, 09:35 PM
  #912
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How much do you know about Fehr?

The funny thing about the WS is that in 1994 the National Labour Relations Board found for the players, so I'm not sure how you blame Fehr for that one.
1994 was a completely botched negotiation by Selig and the MLB owners. They tried a tactic to not lockout, but still get leverage and it didn't work.

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11-15-2012, 09:37 PM
  #913
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Actually it hasn't.

The players would have been much better off taking the owners proposal that would have saved 82 games. No concessions from the league off that offer wll not make up for the money lost due missed games.

Hell, had the NHLPA negotiated off that offer they might have gotten the owners to pay the 'make whole' and played 82 games. But no, the players NEED their raises NOW!!!
That offer wasn't there to be negotiated on, there was "minor tweaking" available and make whole came from future player salaries. This deal is much better imo

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:37 PM
  #914
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@darenmillard: Per Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly, "Don (fehr) called Gary (Bettman) and suggested he didn't know how to proceed from here. . Cont

@darenmillard: Gary suggested that perhaps a moratorium might be in order. We have not heard back.
And this is supposed to be a great negotiator? He doesn't know what to do next?


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Old
11-15-2012, 09:37 PM
  #915
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Lol, people here look at Fehr like he's some mind altering genius. The PA pulled him from retirement b/c they were ready for a fight. Some of these players are dumb, some are very intelligent, and some rest in the middle like the rest of us. Pretty sure I didn't see Fehr in x-men
The worst part I did, when The PA had their midnight coo and lynched Kelly and hired Fehr I knew we would be where we are today. Don't underestimate this guy, he will blow this thing up it's all a matter of how he can contain the players.....something Goodenow didn't do a good job of. He is a master manipulator and will demonize the league,and use various propoganda to persuade the players to skip this year.......I hope I'm wrong but I really think he will do his best to can this season and make a fresh batch of koolaid for next year.

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11-15-2012, 09:37 PM
  #916
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It all boils down to this.

There is a demand to be a player in the NHL.
There isn't a demand to be an owner in the NHL.

The players need the owners, more than the owners need the players.

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11-15-2012, 09:38 PM
  #917
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It sounds like the PA hired a senile old buffoon.

Shows up late, takes forever to get a drink of water, doesn't know what to do.

Is he gonna fall asleep drooling at the next meeting?
Maybe pee himself?
The thought has crossed my mind that some of the things that have been reported are signs that something could be happening that is above and beyond what people have expected and can deal with. Maybe Bettman knows something we don't...

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11-15-2012, 09:38 PM
  #918
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Are profits?
Although 75% of teams may be losing some money, profits are probably up somewhere in the league if they can pay the top 6-7 NHL brass around 15-20 mil combined salary. (8 mil for everyone's favorite commissioner)

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11-15-2012, 09:38 PM
  #919
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Excuse my ignorance but wont this lead to the season being canceled?
Still a long way off from that happening. In theory they could go down as little as 12 games and hold a everyone gets in Stanley Cuo tournament with an added mini round (with the 12 games just determine seeding and first round bye for top seed)

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11-15-2012, 09:39 PM
  #920
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And this is supposed to be a great negotiator? He doesn't know what to next?
Fehr could be making this statement out of frustration or it could be game playing where he's trying to poke around but if this is an honest statement this situation has taken an interesting turn. I'd be worried about someone with Fehr's training and experience saying something like this in the clear.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:40 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Even seeing the tweets from players they have gone absolutely delusional.

Waging war over what is essentially a 5-8% salary cut and a couple contract issues at this point.
These are people who willingly throw themselves in front of 90 mile per hour slapshots to help the team win. Most fans would describe that spirit of self sacrifice and grit as heroic, even enviable.

But in the context of a labor negotiation? Self sacrifice and grit are delusional, apparently.

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11-15-2012, 09:41 PM
  #922
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The thought has crossed my mind that some of the things that have been reported are signs that something could be happening that is above and beyond what people have expected and can deal with. Maybe Bettman knows something we don't...
You've lost me... What's the implication here? Age-related dementia?

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11-15-2012, 09:42 PM
  #923
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Ive been laid off because i refused a reduction in pay. i went out and found another job.

I love how people try to relate the players to real life jobs. In no way shape or form do NHL players have a job thay is similiar to the average joe. So why do posters on here insist on relating the players issues to that of the regular joe? Seems borderline retarded to try and make the connection.

Lets say i was making the average salary an NHL player makes but it was in a real world job. I was forced with a wage reduction i would have the option of looming for other employment. Now to keep it in a realistic view I would have to assume the competition was offering 10% of my pay (remember im an avg nhl not the low end not the high end) or less. I personally think my choice would be easy.
They have guaranteed contracts that can also be bought out at a fraction to what they're worth, and then they can go seek employment on another team, no?

Generally, there are reasons why they do payroll reductions, people who can do it cheaper, they're slacking at their job, the list goes on, but how much do you love your job, or the company you work for? Loyalty goes a long way to moving further sometimes rather than just taking the next job because it pays near or just a bit more than you were at your previous job. Business go through highs and lows, and the loyal ones are the ones who gain in the long run.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:44 PM
  #924
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And this is supposed to be a great negotiator? He doesn't know what to next?
Come on, now. It's the same as Daly announcing that the League has nothing more to offer.

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:45 PM
  #925
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Glad to see they're mature enough to not negotiate through the media...

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