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Israel-Gaza conflict huge escalation

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:59 PM
  #101
MM425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Palestinians voted for Hamas

Hamas is a terrorist organization

I refuse to support terrorists plain and simple
Curious: what do you feel the difference is between a "terrorist organization" and a government, like Israel, that commits calculated atrocities and violence against a specific group of people?

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11-15-2012, 10:06 PM
  #102
Gil Gunderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Palestinians voted for Hamas

Hamas is a terrorist organization

I refuse to support terrorists plain and simple

I am tired of this slant or bias perpetuated by the media, that the Palestinians are the victims here. Palestinians fire rockets into Israel too.
I don't support Hamas, but I also hate the word "terrorism", as it's really hard to define the term now days. The IDF, after all, was created by merging three Zionist "terrorist" groups that, as I said before, killed many civilians through bombings and village massacres.

Their actions to this day aren't much better than Hamas'. Dropping white phosphorus on civilians and bombing Red Cross convoys does nobody any favors. Probably encourages one to join Hamas if anything.

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11-15-2012, 10:08 PM
  #103
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People, the US government, as well as Canada, define Hamas as a terrorist organization.

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11-15-2012, 10:12 PM
  #104
Gil Gunderson
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
People, the US government, as well as Canada, define Hamas as a terrorist organization.
Which means pretty much nothing. They also called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, not that I'm comparing the two.

Same goes for rogue states. Anyone that disagrees with the U.S. is often called a threat to world peace or something of that nature.

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11-15-2012, 10:12 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Palestinians voted for Hamas

Hamas is a terrorist organization

I refuse to support terrorists plain and simple

I am tired of this slant or bias perpetuated by the media, that the Palestinians are the victims here. Palestinians fire rockets into Israel too.
So, what the Israeli military is doing to Palestinian people is not considered terrorism? You have been brainwashed by the very same media you grow weary of.

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11-15-2012, 10:14 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Quote:
Trans-Jordan would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now.

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11-15-2012, 10:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
So, what the Israeli military is doing to Palestinian people is not considered terrorism? You have been brainwashed by the very same media you grow weary of.
I told you the media is biased towards Palestine, so how could I be brainwashed?

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11-15-2012, 10:17 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
People, the US government, as well as Canada, define Hamas as a terrorist organization. End of story.
Lol what is a "terrorist organization"?

Seriously... that's such a meaningless term.

Also, any sort of loose definition you can attempt will also almost be guaranteed to apply to the United States government, the Israeli government, etc.

So using that talking point really is a lousy reason to be "backing" Israel.

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11-15-2012, 10:18 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
Lol what is a "terrorist organization"?

Seriously... that's such a meaningless term.

Also, any sort of loose definition you can attempt will also almost be guaranteed to apply to the United States government, the Israeli government, etc.

So using that talking point really is a lousy reason to be "backing" Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post

The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):

•The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.


I'd say Hamas' & friends' rocket campaign fits that. Although you could actually argue that Hamas is a sovereign entity in which case it gets upgraded from "terrorism" to outright acts of war so a hard Israeli military response is even more justifief.
You're welcome

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11-15-2012, 10:19 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
Lol what is a "terrorist organization"?

Seriously... that's such a meaningless term.

Also, any sort of loose definition you can attempt will also almost be guaranteed to apply to the United States government, the Israeli government, etc.

So using that talking point really is a lousy reason to be "backing" Israel.
Meaningless? Really. Hide in civilian clothing. Hide among civilians. Intentionally target civilians.

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11-15-2012, 10:22 PM
  #111
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The difference is Israel's sole existence is not focused on violence

They didn't just start up and say "Let's kill all these Palestinians"

Quote:
Steven A. Cook, a Middle East expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, started off the evening by acknowledging several facts, which he immediately said were entirely irrelevant. Yes, he said, Hamas was legitimately elected freely and fairly. Yes, Israel has illegally occupied the West Bank and, until recently, Gaza. Yes, Hamas has done much good with its social programs. But, he said, none of that matters. Hamas' central charter calls for the violent overthrow of Israel. Hamas continues to kill innocent civilians. The group must lay down its arms and renounce its violent charter. Until then, Cook said, Hamas can only be labeled a terrorist group.

John O'Sullivan, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, furthered Cook's argument. He proposed using the definition of terrorist adopted by the Canadian government (a definition, he points out, that the Canadians took from his own writing): "A terrorist is a man who murders indiscriminately, distinguishing neither between civilian and innocent and guilty nor soldier and civilian." Terrorism, O'Sullivan argued, is an issue of tactics, not ultimate goals. There can be pro-Nazi and anti-Nazi terrorists, he said; pro-Israel terrorists and anti-Israel ones. In other words, it doesn't matter what we think of Hamas' ultimate goals. All that is important, he argued, is that they employ indiscriminate violence. Until they stop, they should be labeled as terrorists and treated as international pariahs.

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11-15-2012, 10:34 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Meaningless? Really. Hide in civilian clothing. Hide among civilians. Intentionally target civilians.
The bias against Israel is so strong, because we watch the news, and express outrage at what Israel is doing. How dare they kill that boy and make his father grieve. Oh the humanity

Again, the news has been reporting this for years. The news is not Zionist. The news, in fact, has been biased towards Palestine, showing shots of Gaza and mourning citizens vowing vengeance.

But when you look past the news and get the facts, you see that Hamas doesn't play by the rules. Hamas doesn't give a damn about ethics. Hamas indiscriminately fires rockets at will to destroy Israeli settlements. Hamas' own charter dictates a violent re-claiming of Israel. This is not a peaceful organization. In addition, Hamas often uses the tricks in the book you listed. Hide munitions in civilian-populated areas, then blame Israel when Israel snuffs them out.

I'm sick of them being depicted as the victim when we all know both sides are suffering civilian casualties due to this ugly war.

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11-15-2012, 10:40 PM
  #113
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You know Palestine doesn't have a military right?

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11-15-2012, 10:41 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
Lol what is a "terrorist organization"?

Seriously... that's such a meaningless term.

Also, any sort of loose definition you can attempt will also almost be guaranteed to apply to the United States government, the Israeli government, etc.

So using that talking point really is a lousy reason to be "backing" Israel.
Ahhahaha... WW I, WWII, lest we forget. Guess you forgot.

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11-15-2012, 10:43 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
You know Palestine doesn't have a military right?
Are you even paying attention to what I'm saying here son

Hamas is clearly a terrorist organization

Period

Read up

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11-15-2012, 10:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
You know Palestine doesn't have a military right?
Au contraire. Hamas isnt military? Guess those fatigues they all wear at their rallies are just rally costumes. Sometimes they decide to wear them when they're fighting, sometimes they dont. U know like the VC sappers in Vietnam.

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11-15-2012, 10:54 PM
  #117
Gil Gunderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post

But when you look past the news and get the facts, you see that Hamas doesn't play by the rules. Hamas doesn't give a damn about ethics. Hamas indiscriminately fires rockets at will to destroy Israeli settlements. Hamas' own charter dictates a violent re-claiming of Israel. This is not a peaceful organization. In addition, Hamas often uses the tricks in the book you listed. Hide munitions in civilian-populated areas, then blame Israel when Israel snuffs them out.

I'm sick of them being depicted as the victim when we all know both sides are suffering civilian casualties due to this ugly war.
Hamas isn't a peaceful organization, nor do I support them, but bringing up the topic of ethics in this conflict is useless. Along with the illegal occupation, Israel has violated an incredible amount of UN resolution violations. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-us-...solutions/2867

But I do agree about both sides suffering. Not going to take sides like it's a sporting event while children die. Both sides are wrong in this conflict.

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11-15-2012, 10:57 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
The difference is Israel's sole existence is not focused on violence

They didn't just start up and say "Let's kill all these Palestinians"
OK but if both sides are committing "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets..." against each other, are they not both terrorists?

Are you denying the realities of the essential apartheid setup Israel has with the some 3 million muslims who live in the West bank... the majority of them innocent victims?

I'll give you that it certainly seems Hamas is more aggressive and militant-like with their doctrine. Typical of Islamic extremist organizations.

Then again, Israel has that war-mongering neocon Netenyahu as it's PM. With his cartoon drawings of bombs and such.

At the end of the day both sides are based on religious fundamentalism and have used this fundamentalism to commit violence. They are no different from each other in this sense so to pretend like Israel has some sort of moral high ground here is just being plain dishonest.

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11-15-2012, 10:58 PM
  #119
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I reiterate in saying that the region needs to make up an entirely new country in the area but no one is listening to me! Give me some time on the UN's podium and I might make some actual progress out of it. I mean, I couldn't make things any worse, right?

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11-15-2012, 11:00 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
The bias against Israel is so strong, because we watch the news, and express outrage at what Israel is doing. How dare they kill that boy and make his father grieve. Oh the humanity

Again, the news has been reporting this for years. The news is not Zionist. The news, in fact, has been biased towards Palestine, showing shots of Gaza and mourning citizens vowing vengeance.

But when you look past the news and get the facts, you see that Hamas doesn't play by the rules. Hamas doesn't give a damn about ethics. Hamas indiscriminately fires rockets at will to destroy Israeli settlements. Hamas' own charter dictates a violent re-claiming of Israel. This is not a peaceful organization. In addition, Hamas often uses the tricks in the book you listed. Hide munitions in civilian-populated areas, then blame Israel when Israel snuffs them out.

I'm sick of them being depicted as the victim when we all know both sides are suffering civilian casualties due to this ugly war.
Well, you're that voter base which has been lead to believe that the Zionists are innocent protectors of their great culture.

The rest of the world lives in reality, a reality where:

1. When innocent people grow up under a harsh and brutal occupation against a vastly more powerful oppressor many find methods of resistance. If the resistors put on military outfits and marched through the streets they'd be annihilated instantly. How do you think we fought the "redcoats"!!??

2. It's quite well documented that the Israeli forces deny access to basic medical care across "checkpoints" all over Palestine.

3. The denial of access to trade and resources is also very well documented by every major neutral human rights group.

4. Oh, lest we forget, one country is destroying homes and kicking people off their lands they've survived on for decades to expand "settlements" consistently deemed illegal by the United Nations.

5. If not for the U.S. veto power on the security council, we'd have seen a two state solution decades ago.


Stop living in a fantasy world where the Hamas, or any Palestinian group, have any chancy whatsoever at destroying, invading, or inflicting major harm on Israel. Stop living in a fantasy world where "terrorism" is RESISTING OCCUPATION. Hamas didn't blow up the world trade center.

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11-15-2012, 11:02 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
OK but if both sides are committing "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets..." against each other, are they not both terrorists?

Are you denying the realities of the essential apartheid setup Israel has with the some 3 million muslims who live in the West bank... the majority of them innocent victims?

I'll give you that it certainly seems Hamas is more aggressive and militant-like with their doctrine. Typical of Islamic extremist organizations.

Then again, Israel has that war-mongering neocon Netenyahu as it's PM. With his cartoon drawings of bombs and such.

At the end of the day both sides are based on religious fundamentalism and have used this fundamentalism to commit violence. They are no different from each other in this sense so to pretend like Israel has some sort of moral high ground here is just being plain dishonest.
Israel isn't a terrorist because of the reasons listed. They do not indiscriminately fire rockets into Gaza. Their logic is they are taking down Hamas munitions and leaders. And, of course, Hamas places their targets, as said before by other people not named me, as well as other reputable sources, in civilian areas...then complains and gets "mad" when Israel fires a rocket. Hamas is a tricky, sly terrorist organization.

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11-15-2012, 11:03 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Abduljabbar View Post
I reiterate in saying that the region needs to make up an entirely new country in the area but no one is listening to me! Give me some time on the UN's podium and I might make some actual progress out of it. I mean, I couldn't make things any worse, right?
We read all posts.

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11-15-2012, 11:03 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post

Stop living in a fantasy world where the Hamas, or any Palestinian group, have any chancy whatsoever at destroying, invading, or inflicting major harm on Israel. Stop living in a fantasy world where "terrorism" is RESISTING OCCUPATION. Hamas didn't blow up the world trade center.
When did I say they did? Don't put words in my mouth!

And again with the Zionist hate It never ends

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11-15-2012, 11:07 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
When did I say they did? Don't put words in my mouth!

And again with the Zionist hate It never ends
There is no Zionist hate, this is a common sense issue. One side is clearly the oppressor, the other side is an occupied 2nd/3rd world nation. One side continues to expand their territory and the other side commits FEEBLE attempts of resistance. End the occupation physically and economically THEN address what problems of resistance may be left, if any.

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11-15-2012, 11:08 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
OK but if both sides are committing "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets..." against each other, are they not both terrorists?

Are you denying the realities of the essential apartheid setup Israel has with the some 3 million muslims who live in the West bank... the majority of them innocent victims?

I'll give you that it certainly seems Hamas is more aggressive and militant-like with their doctrine. Typical of Islamic extremist organizations.

Then again, Israel has that war-mongering neocon Netenyahu as it's PM. With his cartoon drawings of bombs and such.

At the end of the day both sides are based on religious fundamentalism and have used this fundamentalism to commit violence. They are no different from each other in this sense so to pretend like Israel has some sort of moral high ground here is just being plain dishonest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
We read all posts.
Haha I was referring to people who can make a difference, not that they'd give two ***** about me or my revolutionary ideas.

Generally speaking, nationalistic and religion-based regimes never work. Why should they expect, with all that's been going on for the past 90 years, for any truce to be successful?

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