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Waning fan passion - a growing concern

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:40 PM
  #151
TheStroker
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I wouldn't say my passion for the game has diminished. As soon as hockey returns, its all I will watch and read about. But what I don't do is financially support the league. I will only go to games if tickets are given to me for free. And when I do go, I will not buy any concessions or merchandise. If I do buy a jersey, l will buy a cheaper fake one. I will eat before I go and sneak in booze if I have to. This league won't be getting a single dime of mine for a long long time. I think its fair to say that most fans will return to watch their team. But we all need our voice to be heard when it is time, and that is to not give your HARD EARNED money to a bunch of squabbling rich folk fighting over a 1st world problem.

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11-15-2012, 12:46 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Most hardcore fans will be back yes.. The leagues problem is they will lose huge amounts of casual fans. People that were just getting in to hockey.

Florida, Columbus... Places like that will be hit hard.

There is no Crosby draft this time around.
The NHL was a hardcore league back in the 90s when revenues hovered around $1B. Inflation and USD/CAD adjusted a hardcore league would earn about $1.8B today... exactly what the players are asking for today guaranteed.

Face it, the longer this goes on the less chance this gets resolved. Apathy is really the only intelligent response a fan can have.

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11-15-2012, 01:14 PM
  #153
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Actually, Carolina, Atlanta, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, San Jose, Tampa Bay Phoenix and Florida all saw increases in attendance from the 03-04 season to the 05-06 season. The five "non-traditional" markets that saw decreases were Dallas, New Jersey, St. Louis, Washington and Columbus. Colorado and LA were stagnant.
So we have 9 that saw an increase, 5 that did not and 2 that were stagnant.

As for "traditional" markets, Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, Minnesota, Ottawa, Calgary, Buffalo, Chicago and the Rangers all saw increases, while Edmonton and the Islanders decreased and Detroit and Vancouver remained static.

This most likely had to do with League wide increase in attendance from 03-04 to 05-06. Funny- the NHL attendance actually increased in the seasons between the lockout.

I'm not going to analyze these numbers (yet), but they suggest that you are wrong.
Minor nitpick, but Edmonton didn't "actually" see a decrease. Our 03-04 numbers are inflated thanks to the Heritage Classic which bumped attendance in 1 game to 57,000+. In 02-03, we averaged 16,600 so we had a *slight* increase of about 200 people to get up to sellouts nightly.

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11-15-2012, 10:29 PM
  #154
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If the season is cancelled, I'm done with NHL.

The NFL helps fill that empty void.

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11-15-2012, 10:32 PM
  #155
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If the season is cancelled, I'm done with NHL.

The NFL helps fill that empty void.
Not even so much for me, considering the Jets are almost as big a **** show as these bufoons in the NHL are. The only thing the rest of the NFL season I care about are how my two fantasy teams wind up, and the Super Bowl. And then baseball's more or less dead to me because the Mets are on the third year of their fifty-year plan, especially after they wind up trading the Cy Young award winner. I don't like the NBA either.

College basketball? Soccer? Maybe I'll even watch tennis more frequently. Good god, this is ridiculous.

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11-15-2012, 10:48 PM
  #156
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Not even so much for me, considering the Jets are almost as big a **** show as these bufoons in the NHL are. The only thing the rest of the NFL season I care about are how my two fantasy teams wind up, and the Super Bowl. And then baseball's more or less dead to me because the Mets are on the third year of their fifty-year plan, especially after they wind up trading the Cy Young award winner. I don't like the NBA either.

College basketball? Soccer? Maybe I'll even watch tennis more frequently. Good god, this is ridiculous.
Haha ur goonna hate me cuz I'm a seahawks fan. Yea, even if my team sucks, I love the NFL in general. It's such a superior league in every way, shape, and form.

They know they cannot take fans for granted. That's why they resolved their lockout in time before the season started. Heck they resolved their ref lockout after fan outrage of the gb/seattle debacle!

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11-16-2012, 03:44 PM
  #157
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...e-in-cba-talks

LeBrun shares some fan comments showing extent of waning passion.

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11-16-2012, 07:11 PM
  #158
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Put it this way, this is the first time I have visited this site since mid July.

That little excerpt the OP quoted summed it up perfectly. I just don't care anymore. I thought this lockout would be painful. It's been the absolute opposite. In fact, it's been fantastic to focus on stuff in life that really matters.

The only thing that really caught my attention suddenly was that idiot quote by Ian White. Came to see if there was any reaction on the boards to that.

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11-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #159
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LeBrun shares some fan comments showing extent of waning passion.
Like reading a conscious stream of epitaph's written by the Walking Dead.

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11-17-2012, 10:13 AM
  #160
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It seems the owners and player association haven't noticed that this isn't the same economic situation as when the last two lockouts took place. We're in the middle (hopefully the tail end) of the biggest economic tail spin since the 1940s.

I think of that every time I see someone on this board saying "They'll be back. They always come back" or something to that effect about the fans. Gluttons for punishment? This is a totally different situation. The most popular teams with the giant waiting lists for season tix will be fine, but they are in a minority in this league, and a lot of people seem to forget that.

Anyway, it's already too late. The damage has been done. A miracle could take place and the season could start next week, and it wouldn't change many peoples minds. It's DONE.

I know I for one won't be spending a penny on the NHL game for the forseeable future. They don't deserve my money, and I don't have nearly as much spending $$$ as I used to, anyhow. I'll be watching all the games streaming on bootleg sites for free, and I'll be saving about $500 a year.

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11-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #161
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Football fills the void for some. That changes in February though.

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11-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #162
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Football fills the void for some. That changes in February though.
Is that the ole Spagnuolo squat in your avatar? Got used to seeing that here in STL

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11-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Put it this way, this is the first time I have visited this site since mid July.

That little excerpt the OP quoted summed it up perfectly. I just don't care anymore. I thought this lockout would be painful. It's been the absolute opposite. In fact, it's been fantastic to focus on stuff in life that really matters.

The only thing that really caught my attention suddenly was that idiot quote by Ian White. Came to see if there was any reaction on the boards to that.
Was he really wrong though? Lock out aside, I think most would agree that Bettman has been terrible in many regards. He just said what most of us have been for years. Sure he grew the business, but he's dumbed down the game, trampled on its heritage, made many extremely poor choices for expansion location and changed many rules that a purist would hate. I thought White's comments were refreshing in that what he said was open and honest.

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11-17-2012, 01:08 PM
  #164
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Was he really wrong though? Lock out aside, I think most would agree that Bettman has been terrible in many regards. He just said what most of us have been for years. Sure he grew the business, but he's dumbed down the game, trampled on its heritage, made many extremely poor choices for expansion location and changed many rules that a purist would hate. I thought White's comments were refreshing in that what he said was open and honest.
For people that don't understand the business of hockey or simply just like to rebel against authority figures, they don't like Bettman.

For people that have a little bit of understanding and intelligence, they realize that Bettman has done a pretty good job.

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11-17-2012, 01:14 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
For people that don't understand the business of hockey or simply just like to rebel against authority figures, they don't like Bettman.

For people that have a little bit of understanding and intelligence, they realize that Bettman has done a pretty good job.


So you are saying I am stupid? I guess one cannot hate Bettman and be "intelligent". I understand the business of hockey excellently and yes he has grown revenue but lots of his business decisions have been horrific.

I am also on the owner's side. But you believe whatever you need to in order to feel self important.

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11-17-2012, 01:23 PM
  #166
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So you are saying I am stupid? I guess one cannot hate Bettman and be "intelligent". I understand the business of hockey excellently and yes he has grown revenue but lots of his business decisions have been horrific.

I am also on the owner's side. But you believe whatever you need to in order to feel self important.
Explain why you think he is terrible. If you have some real, legitimate reasons then you may not fall into the category I talked about. Typically, people don't even have any legitimate reasons to dislike the guy or the job he has done.

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11-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #167
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Explain why you think he is terrible. If you have some real, legitimate reasons then you may not fall into the category I talked about. Typically, people don't even have any legitimate reasons to dislike the guy or the job he has done.
3 labour disruptions during his tenure.

The only commissioner to lose an entire season due to it and about to become the only commissioner to do it twice. Inside of a decade no less!

Bettman has had twenty years to "manage" this league, and yet he is still wholly incapable of creating labour peace.

That is an absolute failure of management.

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11-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Explain why you think he is terrible. If you have some real, legitimate reasons then you may not fall into the category I talked about. Typically, people don't even have any legitimate reasons to dislike the guy or the job he has done.
Phoenix. Pretty obvious why.

Rule changes I do not like: 2 minutes for delay of game for shooting the puck over the glass. I know it was an issue that players were doing it on purpose, but they need to modify it for intent IMO. Dropping the instigator rule. No wonder there are so many guys running around with the stick work and cheap shots. Guys wouldn't dare do that years ago. The trapezoid. Let the goalies play the puck. It is more entertaining and Brodeur will be done soon anyway. Not a fan of the shootout. I liked ties. Some don't. I did.

The vetting seems pretty poor in some cases. Boots DelBiagio comes to mind. All the pandering to non-traditional markets and decisions to put teams there or keep them there. That is, in a nutshell, why they need to fix this CBA is to cover for those losing markets. How long do people truly think teams like Tampa, Florida, Nashville (Atlanta now gone, credit there but we all knew it wouldn't work there) and Columbus are good markets that screamed "Awesome untapped hockey market."?

I liked the old division and conference names. Those names were given with high regard. He dumbed it down for non-traditional fans. Same with the conferences. He allowed ateam to be called The Mighty Ducks.....come on, show some respect. This isn't a Disney cartoon.

Approving contracts (league head office) like the ones we saw with Suter and Parise knowing what was ahead. This makes him look foolish and hypocritical. Same to Leipold.

Failure to put no-touch icing in every year. I know they would have started the new hybrid rule, but really, does somebody have to die first?

Just a few of a long list of things that make name not like him. I like that he is ambitious and wants to grow the game, but admit that some experiments did not work in certain markets and go make money in under served markets or ones that now have new buildings or have natural rivalries. A few examples would be relocating a team to Houston to give synergy to Dallas and Nashville. Same thing with Seattle, QC, GTA and Hartford (new arena now). I just don't get the insistence on the need to create bigger potential losses in non-traditional markets and also now having to look at massive revenue sharing to keep those teams viable when you have the choice to move back to more traditional markets to make the league revenue potentially way stronger.

My two cents. There is more but I am using an iPad.

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11-17-2012, 01:58 PM
  #169
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3 labour disruptions during his tenure.

The only commissioner to lose an entire season due to it and about to become the only commissioner to do it twice. Inside of a decade no less!

Bettman has had twenty years to "manage" this league, and yet he is still wholly incapable of creating labour peace.

That is an absolute failure of management.
So the union has nothing to do with the labor unrest? Should he just roll over and create an MLB-style system so that only a few teams can afford star players?

This is not a legitimate reason for hate - Bettman would not shut down the league if it was healthy.

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11-17-2012, 02:06 PM
  #170
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Phoenix. Pretty obvious why.

Rule changes I do not like: 2 minutes for delay of game for shooting the puck over the glass. I know it was an issue that players were doing it on purpose, but they need to modify it for intent IMO. Dropping the instigator rule. No wonder there are so many guys running around with the stick work and cheap shots. Guys wouldn't dare do that years ago. The trapezoid. Let the goalies play the puck. It is more entertaining and Brodeur will be done soon anyway. Not a fan of the shootout. I liked ties. Some don't. I did.

The vetting seems pretty poor in some cases. Boots DelBiagio comes to mind. All the pandering to non-traditional markets and decisions to put teams there or keep them there. That is, in a nutshell, why they need to fix this CBA is to cover for those losing markets. How long do people truly think teams like Tampa, Florida, Nashville (Atlanta now gone, credit there but we all knew it wouldn't work there) and Columbus are good markets that screamed "Awesome untapped hockey market."?

I liked the old division and conference names. Those names were given with high regard. He dumbed it down for non-traditional fans. Same with the conferences. He allowed ateam to be called The Mighty Ducks.....come on, show some respect. This isn't a Disney cartoon.

Approving contracts (league head office) like the ones we saw with Suter and Parise knowing what was ahead. This makes him look foolish and hypocritical. Same to Leipold.

Failure to put no-touch icing in every year. I know they would have started the new hybrid rule, but really, does somebody have to die first?

Just a few of a long list of things that make name not like him. I like that he is ambitious and wants to grow the game, but admit that some experiments did not work in certain markets and go make money in under served markets or ones that now have new buildings or have natural rivalries. A few examples would be relocating a team to Houston to give synergy to Dallas and Nashville. Same thing with Seattle, QC, GTA and Hartford (new arena now). I just don't get the insistence on the need to create bigger potential losses in non-traditional markets and also now having to look at massive revenue sharing to keep those teams viable when you have the choice to move back to more traditional markets to make the league revenue potentially way stronger.

My two cents. There is more but I am using an iPad.
Bettman doesn't change rules, the competition committee does that. He is hardly the one to blame for the rules.

Phoenix? Bettman, with the backing of the owners attempted to grow the game by putting teams in the south. Based on what I have seen, this hasn't worked. Phoenix is the most glaring example of the failure. Obviously, you are opposed to Bettman's efforts to keep the team there.

Understand this: When putting the team in Glendale, an arena was built and commitments were made to the taxpayers in the area. After putting all of that together, you can't just yank the team and leave the arena vacant. You have to give them a chance to salvage the franchise and Bettman has fought hard for that. You simply cannot fault a man for being loyal to the people and the taxpayers of the area, attempting to save their team.

Of course, it appears that nobody wants to own a team in Phoenix with the losses they incur every year. It is time to move the club and Bettman will get that done. I, for one, applaud the guy for working so hard on behalf of the people of Arizona to make this work for them. I hope he would defend each and every franchise to this extent - and he has. He certainly helped save the Oilers in the 90s.

I don't see anything you have posted as justification to hate the man. He has done a good job. Not perfect but, nobody is.

You said that you agree he is an "idiot". Sorry, a man that runs a $3.3 billion business is far from an idiot. Has Ian White even graduated high school?


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11-17-2012, 02:16 PM
  #171
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So the union has nothing to do with the labor unrest? Should he just roll over and create an MLB-style system so that only a few teams can afford star players?

This is not a legitimate reason for hate - Bettman would not shut down the league if it was healthy.
Bettman has been on the job twenty years (I really cant stress enough that the man has had two decades to achieve labour peace).

He shut the league down for an entire year less than a decade ago in order to "fix" the league because it was not "healthy".

He failed. He cancelled an entire season, an unprecedented move in pro sports, and he accomplished nothing.

Obviously Bettman's job is not to simply capitulate to the player's wishes. For you to characterize my position as such is downright childish.

Bettman's job is to create a mutually beneficial system of compensation that helps to maintain labour peace. He has had twenty years to do this.

Instead, what he has done is sour relations to a point where they are about as bad as they have ever been. Despite new generations of players, many barely even alive when he started, the relationship between players and management is worse than ever.

A boss who does nothing but antagonize his employees and creates such a toxic work environment that the players would feel compelled to employ the services of Donald Fehr has clearly failed.

I have to wonder if some people on this board even understand the word "management". Hint, it doesn't mean being hyper-partisan and treating your most important employees like selfish, lazy idiots.

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11-17-2012, 02:30 PM
  #172
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Bettman doesn't change rules, the competition committee does that. He is hardly the one to blame for the rules.

Phoenix? Bettman, with the backing of the owners attempted to grow the game by putting teams in the south. Based on what I have seen, this hasn't worked. Phoenix is the most glaring example of the failure. Obviously, you are opposed to Bettman's efforts to keep the team there.

Understand this: When putting the team in Glendale, an arena was built and commitments were made to the taxpayers in the area. After putting all of that together, you can't just yank the team and leave the arena vacant. You have to give them a chance to salvage the franchise and Bettman has fought hard for that. You simply cannot fault a man for being loyal to the people and the taxpayers of the area, attempting to save their team.

Of course, it appears that nobody wants to own a team in Phoenix with the losses they incur every year. It is time to move the club and Bettman will get that done. I, for one, applaud the guy for working so hard on behalf of the people of Arizona to make this work for them. I hope he would defend each and every franchise to this extent - and he has. He certainly helped save the Oilers in the 90s.

I don't see anything you have posted as justification to hate the man. He has done a good job. Not perfect but, nobody is.

You said that you agree he is an "idiot". Sorry, a man that runs a $3.3 billion business is far from an idiot. Has Ian White even graduated high school?
Yeah. Pretty much what I expected from you. Sorry. Not biting this time.

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11-17-2012, 02:37 PM
  #173
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Explain why you think he is terrible. If you have some real, legitimate reasons then you may not fall into the category I talked about. Typically, people don't even have any legitimate reasons to dislike the guy or the job he has done.
He gets credit for a dramatic increase in revenue that had nothing else to do with other than the fact that the Canadian dollar went par, but I guess some people think Bettman runs the Canadian government.

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11-17-2012, 04:22 PM
  #174
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So the union has nothing to do with the labor unrest? Should he just roll over and create an MLB-style system so that only a few teams can afford star players?

This is not a legitimate reason for hate - Bettman would not shut down the league if it was healthy.
Bettman shut down the league at his employers behest.

Whether the league is healthy is debatable; the number of organizations in the red suggest that it is not.

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11-17-2012, 04:24 PM
  #175
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Football fills the void for some. That changes in February though.
November for others

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