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Old
11-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #626
nyranger61494
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That Ibra goal was absurdly good. The Guardian posted 20 of the best international goals of all-time:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...an-ibrahimovic

What a list!

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11-15-2012, 11:51 AM
  #627
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Well, he might not be top 5. But he's close.

Who are the top 5?

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11-15-2012, 12:25 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
Well, he might not be top 5. But he's close.

Who are the top 5?
Casillas, Buffon and Neuer seem to be wildly regarded as the top-3, and I suppose I'd agree.

I haven't been watching enough from Italy, Spain or France to make comments about any goalies there, I'll admit right away. Last I did see him, Lloris seemed better as well, to me. In England, I feel like DeGea isn't worse. And quite honestly, within Germany and our tradition of popping out quality goalkeepers, there's Adler who I'd definitely take over him, and a handful of guys (Leno, ter Stegen, Ullreich, Trapp and Baumann) that I don't see being far enough worse to consider giving him "top-5 in the world" consideration.

It just appears that with the troubled history of goaltending in England, having an actually good one for a change blows people's minds, to a degree. I fully acknowledge the chance that I'm wrong on him, maybe I'm misled by limited viewings and some certainly over-the-top critics of other English clubs getting to mention too many perceived blunders. It's entirely possible. But I certainly haven't seen "it".

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11-15-2012, 12:30 PM
  #629
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As you say though after that top 3 it really gets murky. I'd probably agree with Lloris at 4, but after that Hart's up there with Adler, unless he keeps playing out of his mind from now on, Cech, Akinfeev, De Gea, Mandanda, Leno, MAtS, Rui Patricio, etc. Hard to really argue convincingly against any of those guys for number 5.

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11-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #630
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I do think he's obviously overrated because he's English, they won the league, they play in Manchester, and he did have a good Euro. But I don't know that it's that much of a stretch. He's very good in most of the league games, and has kept City in matches they shouldn't win at times (they should have lost to Liverpool for one).

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11-15-2012, 12:43 PM
  #631
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I would rate Hart top five I suppose along with Lloris and the other three Vipers mentioned as top five. De Gea is probably a bit underrated at this juncture as people have it in their head he's error prone, when he's really not that error prone at all and capable of stealing three points.

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11-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #632
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No question Lloris is top 4. I'd rank him above Buffon now and possibly over Casillas. Both are aging, and frankly, when you see Casillas against Dortmund for instance, yikes.

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11-15-2012, 01:50 PM
  #633
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1. Buffon
2. Casillas
3. Lloris
4. Hart

If Julio Ceasar was playing like he did with Inter Milan then he'd probably be in there at 5/4 but with QPR he's been absolutely awful for the majority.

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11-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stray Wasp View Post
For me, Shilton was great too. In my childhood, it seemed as if the majority of England matches entailed the opposition dominating, Shilton keeping them out and either Robson or Lineker snatching a goal.

Apparently, the first thing English scouts look for in a prospective keeper is size rather than technical ability. Little wonder goal has become a problem position.

England could do with Hart developing and last night might have the happy effect of dispelling some of the hype that's built up around him. Mind you, there are plenty problems in other departments of the team.
Seems like we are the same age. Shilton of course was good but I remember Clemence from his Liverpool days. Always thought Ray was the better goalie.

Plus (as mentioned in a later post) Seaman was NOT a really good goaltender. Banks was but not Seaman. He was always an okay goalie. Nothing special.

I've always had a soft spot for you guys though I'm German.

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11-15-2012, 02:16 PM
  #635
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Neuer is a hell of a lot better goalkeeper than Joe Hart. I think he's the best in the world. His distribution is very good, shot stopping excellent, has great instincts.

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11-15-2012, 02:33 PM
  #636
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Neuer is the best gk in the world and I would say its not close.

Casillas, Buffon and Lloris fight for 2nd to 4th spot.

Hart is number 5 for me

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11-15-2012, 03:18 PM
  #637
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I'm not saying he is sure fire Top 5, but I can not believe Howard hasn't even garnered a mention if your talking about in the world and not just Europe. I don't think the US or Everton are where they are with out him and I've seen him steal more points for his team than one goalie has a right to.

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11-15-2012, 03:30 PM
  #638
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If Howard did it at a big club, I would agree. But Everton is a medium sized club and the US is poor. If he moved to a top 7 side, I might agree.

I think Iker is probably still close to the best, even if Barca are sagging a bit defensively against Dortmund. Neuer is my favorite but I'm biased.

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11-15-2012, 03:38 PM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyranger61494 View Post
That Ibra goal was absurdly good. The Guardian posted 20 of the best international goals of all-time:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...an-ibrahimovic

What a list!
26 years later and I still get goosebumps from Diego's goal against England. Deservedly top of all the lists.

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11-15-2012, 04:05 PM
  #640
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As you say though after that top 3 it really gets murky. I'd probably agree with Lloris at 4, but after that Hart's up there with Adler, unless he keeps playing out of his mind from now on, Cech, Akinfeev, De Gea, Mandanda, Leno, MAtS, Rui Patricio, etc. Hard to really argue convincingly against any of those guys for number 5.
Cech is a guy I would have mentioned, for sure, but he doesn't seem to pop up much in the discussion. Maybe I'm a bit out of the loop regarding him.

But I agree that after thinking about it, it's a lot harder for me to rank all these goalies than it's with hockey, and maybe there really is just very little between whoever one has at #4 to #10+, so I can see why one would not regard it as too much of a stretch. Interesting how this turned out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Neuer is a hell of a lot better goalkeeper than Joe Hart. I think he's the best in the world. His distribution is very good, shot stopping excellent, has great instincts.
I didn't comment on Hart in order to get to brag about Neuer eventually, but as we're there already... I know I wouldn't swap him for any goalie - and that includes a prime-aged Oliver Kahn. Neuer has certainly had a bit more blunders than expected from a "best in the world" in the past 18 months, so I wouldn't disrespect anyone for not giving him that title just yet, but the adjustment from looking exceptional facing a huge number of shots to having to make the 1-2 saves behind a usually dominant Bayern team possession-wise was going to be a tough one. As you mentioned, he has great instincts, and he has looked at the art of goaltending in other sports (I know he mentioned handball, not sure about hockey) trying to find ways to play certain situations as efficiently as possible.

His distribution is outstanding. I can't remember if I've evern seen goalies throwing the ball with speed to the middle line hitting players in full stride as he does regularly. Him being so good with the ball on his feet is also a tremendous asset, especially for a team relying on possession that much.

I'm so happy our board went over van Gaal and our ultra-section fans' heads' in bringing the lad over.

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11-15-2012, 05:37 PM
  #641
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If Howard did it at a big club, I would agree. But Everton is a medium sized club and the US is poor. If he moved to a top 7 side, I might agree.
That's my point. He's lost 1 game all season in goal for Everton. Hart is the only EPL keeper with less losses. Casillas has more league losses, Cech, Neuer, and Buffon the same number of losses. You say Everton is a medium sized club but look where they are right now, 4th place in the EPL. The US has no right to have a .750 win percentage for 2012, but they do. There's no way they win in Italy or Mexico, or even comeback on Russia in Russia yesterday without Howard standing on his head. I think he is doing more with less. Look at the teams and defenders that the "Top 5" have and tell me Howard wouldn't do the same or more with that in front of him. Howard is doing more with less and to me that's more impressive.

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11-15-2012, 05:54 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Shameus View Post
That's my point. He's lost 1 game all season in goal for Everton. Hart is the only EPL keeper with less losses. Casillas has more league losses, Cech, Neuer, and Buffon the same number of losses. You say Everton is a medium sized club but look where they are right now, 4th place in the EPL. The US has no right to have a .750 win percentage for 2012, but they do. There's no way they win in Italy or Mexico, or even comeback on Russia in Russia yesterday without Howard standing on his head. I think he is doing more with less. Look at the teams and defenders that the "Top 5" have and tell me Howard wouldn't do the same or more with that in front of him. Howard is doing more with less and to me that's more impressive.
I think winning percentages, or number of losses, are entirely meaningless in trying to evaluate a goalkeeper's quality. It doesn't work in hockey, and in football with smaller save-percentages and therefore being even more reliant on not facing higher-percentage scoring chances, it's even less of an indicator. I wouldn't say anything against Howard, simply because I haven't seen enough from him, and there's no doubt that those numbers are impressive - but they really aren't saying anything.

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11-15-2012, 06:00 PM
  #643
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Howard is a good goalkeeper but he is mistake prone. For example Cech is more dominant at times, but even more mistake prone at this point, so it is hard to place guys like that in a list.

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11-15-2012, 06:10 PM
  #644
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Neuer Still can't bring myself to root against the guy, but he should have stayed.

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11-15-2012, 08:15 PM
  #645
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Oh dear, Lukaku still needs a lot of time before he's ready for Chelsea. 3x alone in front of keeper. First time he forgets the ball, second time he puts it wide and the third time he kicks the ball against the keeper. Luckily it was only a friendly against Romania. In meaningful games, the fans and manager would kill him.

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11-15-2012, 09:26 PM
  #646
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Oh dear, Lukaku still needs a lot of time before he's ready for Chelsea. 3x alone in front of keeper. First time he forgets the ball, second time he puts it wide and the third time he kicks the ball against the keeper. Luckily it was only a friendly against Romania. In meaningful games, the fans and manager would kill him.
That's one of his major weaknesses: focus/composure. He oozes skill and power, but he needs to work on his finishing. He has potential to be one of the best targetmen in Europe, but he has a lot of work ahead of him. He's still young so that's an advantage, but he needs games.

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11-15-2012, 10:03 PM
  #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Howard is a good goalkeeper but he is mistake prone. For example Cech is more dominant at times, but even more mistake prone at this point, so it is hard to place guys like that in a list.
IMO Cech is the best goal keeper in the EPL with Hart following behind, but I do agree that Neuer is complete beast.

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11-15-2012, 10:15 PM
  #648
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Cech hasn't been very good for two or three seasons. He played well in the late CL this last season and has picked it up since then, but for the last two or three he has underperformed

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11-15-2012, 11:11 PM
  #649
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Cech hasn't been very good for two or three seasons. He played well in the late CL this last season and has picked it up since then, but for the last two or three he has underperformed
Cech hasn't been the same since the head injury, in my opinion. Very athletic. Great shot stopper. But for a man of his size, he is average/below average at getting off his line on balls across the face of goal. He doesn't really command his six yard box.

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11-16-2012, 12:04 AM
  #650
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IMO Cech is the best goal keeper in the EPL with Hart following behind, but I do agree that Neuer is complete beast.
Best keeper in the EPL in on a bench.

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