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Old
11-15-2012, 08:15 PM
  #501
Velociraptor
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Tom Fitzgerald, RW


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Old
11-15-2012, 09:57 PM
  #502
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
For 'one of the best defensively', one'd expect him to be a Selke finalist at least once.
This is kind of a semantic argument.

I did say "some have called him one of the best in the league". Considering he had 13 selke votes in 2011, what I said is absolutely true. 13 voters thought he was top-5 in the league. 13 is "some", and top-5 is "one of the best".

Quote:
Both had very weak forward corps. Overachieving and hot goalie in playoffs don't magically turn them into teams where Plekanec faced any serious competition among forwards.
I agree they didn't have great forward corps. At the same time, a lot of love is often thrown the way of players who lead defensively successful teams in scoring. Point still stands, Hogue simply wouldn't lead any team in scoring.

Quote:
Yet him outscoring his vastly superior playmaker linemates is pointed to as proof of his offensive ability.
Well, he does have offensive ability, clearly. Just not "supreme".

Quote:
Honestly, any semi-decent goalscorer is bound to outscore the Sedins at ES when playing with them. They're just that good at playmaking, it has very little to do with the third wheel's ability.
Daniel is a goal scorer, so I don't know why you keep saying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The Hall of Fame disagrees.

Legends of Hockey is going awfully far out of their way to talk about his speed, for a slow guy.
I agree, they sure went out of their way to call a slow guy fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey scouting report 1989
King is an average skater at the NHL level, showing neither exceptional speed nor outstandingquickness or agility... Since he doesn't yet possess the skating skills to either drive past the defensemen or cut around him, King often just parries the puck wide of the net and into the corner...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1990
hand skills are the heart and soul of his game.. he lacks the NHL level of speed or quickness that would drive him past the defense - or give him the ability to dance past them (Derek is not very agile)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1991
King is a clever puckhandler but he's undercut in that area by his skating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1992
he has the physical tools to be an above-average skater, but motivation remains a very big question mark... although not a very good skater, when King is playing one of his involved games, this flaw is not as noticeable, as he is mobile in close quarters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1993
his improved stamina has allowed him to take longer shifts without chugging off in search of oxygen... defensively, his game still needs work. He is not a great skater, and when he is caught out of position, he can't hustle back to cover up for his mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1994
not a great skater but has improved his defensive awareness...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Scouting Report 1997
There is only one thing King does well, and that's score goals... not a great skater.
To be honest, I like him even less than before. The reports are extremely hard on him. There is too much to type out, but besides his skating, it's his defense, his inconsistency and streakiness, his lack of a physical game, and his dedication constantly called into question. Also, it is frequently said that he needs to be on the top line with the right center.

On the positive side, he is a finisher and he will take a pounding in the crease.

Quote:
And that factor is irrelevant when playing with a center who can, in fact, get you the puck.
This sounds an awful lot like just looking at stats without context and not considering who is actually a better player. Is 30 goals is the same, whether you did so with a 100-point center feeding you, or you did it yourself with two lesser players on your line? Obviously the player with the better established record of doing it themselves is a better bet.

There would have come a time when Derek King was the best winger available. But I think that time was still a while away.

Quote:
I wanted a specific skill set for my team, based on its unique composition. That has nothing to do with your personal preference for a player or where he ranks in ATD canon.
**** ATD canon. You think I care about that?

what "skill set" does King have, exactly? he scores goals? Other LWs score goals too! A lot of them relied on their centers a lot less, and a lot of them had other aspects to their games too! that's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Tom Fitzgerald, RW

I was just telling Dreakmur last night I would not be dissatisfied with Fitzy if we missed out on Collins.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:09 PM
  #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Daniel is a goal scorer, so I don't know why you keep saying that.
And Burrows does create offense by himself (unlike the other guys who've played with the Sedins in the past).

13 of 28 goals last season were not assisted by either Sedin

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11-15-2012, 10:13 PM
  #504
seventieslord
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Round 14

My favourites
:

1. Mike Palmateer, G. I wanted him too. Like Hebert, I couldn't get Dreakmur excited enough about him.
2. Shirley Davidson. Close one. But I like his intriguing offensive upside.
3. Jeff Norton. Good specialist for this level, and wasn't 21.4 minutes for 800 games, for teams not to far below average. Again, close, because I liked the first three picks this round too.

Need more selling on:
Jean Potvin. I realize he has that big offensive season but it was as the fifth wheel on that excellent Isles PP. He had 51 on the PP that year by being on the ice 91% of the time, along with Potvin, and usually Trottier, Harris, and Gillies. That PP was 68% better than the league average! For his career he averaged 19.6 minutes over just 633 games. He's a player I profiled before, way down at pick# 1544. He's an OK specialist for this level, and this was a pretty well drafted round IMO, I just had to name one player and he was the only one who stood out at all.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:15 PM
  #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
And Burrows does create offense by himself (unlike the other guys who've played with the Sedins in the past).

13 of 28 goals last season were not assisted by either Sedin
That is an interesting stat; I honestly would have never guessed it was that many.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:43 PM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
That is an interesting stat; I honestly would have never guessed it was that many.
To expand on it (since he broke out in 08-09):

08-09: 16/28 goals not assisted by a Sedin
08-09 Playoffs: 2/3 goals not assisted by a Sedin
09-10: 11/35 goals not assisted by a Sedin
09-10 Playoffs: 0/3 goals assisted by a Sedin (to be fair, 2 were EN)
10-11: 6/26 goals not assisted by a Sedin
10-11 Playoffs: 6/9 goals not assisted by a Sedin
11-12 Playoffs: 0/1 goals not assisted by a Sedin


Last edited by Hedberg: 11-16-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 01:08 AM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I agree they didn't have great forward corps. At the same time, a lot of love is often thrown the way of players who lead defensively successful teams in scoring. Point still stands, Hogue simply wouldn't lead any team in scoring.
That's just a hypothesis of yours. Hard to say how he'd fare against the same level of junk competition that Plekanec faced.

Quote:
Daniel is a goal scorer, so I don't know why you keep saying that.
Compared to Henrik, sure. But a player with 1:1.59 G:A ratio is obviously playmaking biased regardless.

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11-16-2012, 07:14 AM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
To expand on it (since he broke out in 08-09):

08-09: 16/28 goals not assisted by a Sedin
08-09 Playoffs: 2/3 goals not assisted by a Sedin
09-10: 11/35 goals not assisted by a Sedin
09-10 Playoffs: 0/3 goals assisted by a Sedin (to be fair, 2 were EN)
10-11: 6/26 goals not assisted by a Sedin
11-12 Playoffs: 6/9 goals not assisted by a Sedin
so Sedins assists on 63% of his goals. Add to it that he still plays with the Sedins who gets the better defensive players on them and we have an answer to Burrows sudden goal scoring boost.

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/18...ss-with-skill/

Here is an analysis of several players who are playing with better linemates.

and one on quality of shots.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/17/quan...ing-percentage

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:19 AM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I agree, they sure went out of their way to call a slow guy fast.
So you have some reports from his early career saying he isn't exceptionally fast, and I have a report from the end of his career that repeatedly emphasizes that he was fast.

Conclusion: Your source is right, mine is wrong, and he is a worse player than when we started the conversation.

Quote:
This sounds an awful lot like just looking at stats without context and not considering who is actually a better player.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:43 AM
  #510
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Johnny and Billy would've been skipped last night, so I'll select Hal Laycoe, D


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Old
11-16-2012, 10:01 AM
  #511
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
OT, but look how off-center the logo is relative to the stripe on that sweater. Today's Chinese knockoffs have nothing on old school not-giving-a-****.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:18 AM
  #512
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I don't know re:King, I think he's basically a one-dimensional Jeff Friesen even if King had more help getting there. His PP numbers are better than some of the people above him too.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:24 AM
  #513
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I'll take LW/C, Curtis Brown

He'll play somewhere on the fourth line and my top PK unit

Tony has been messaged

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:45 AM
  #514
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King's LOH profile doesn't just have a throwaway line about his speed, it mentions his speed multiple times as key to his game.

But those scouting reports are pretty clear that his speed wasn't an asset. All the scouting reports are by the same source, right?

Either one of the two sources is out to lunch, or King got a lot faster at some point.

Perhaps we could (gasp) ask a few fans who remember seeing him play regularly. I barely remember him even though I must have seen him play quite a few times.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:21 AM
  #515
Mike Farkas
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Well, last night and early this morning I watched a couple of games from the 1993 playoffs specifically to watch Derek King. I thought, "it's pointless bickering about something we could obviously see with video...so I'll look"

Now, I only watched him in 1993 games, so it's in his prime. And here's what I got:

He played on the left wing with Pierre Turgeon mostly, but usually on Turgeon's "second shift" - Turgeon looks to have been double-shifted at least against Montreal, once he got stuck against Kirk Muller, and then Arbour would try to get him matched up against a soft, offensive player like Lebeau. The latter is when King would join him it seems.

Can King skate? Yes. Is he Fedorov fast? Certainly not. I'd call him above average in the skating department if I had to make a call. Iffy in transition and balance, but not a bad skater by any means. Not slow either. I can see where one might get "slow" from because he is not a hard worker. He did, however, come back deep on defense on a couple of occasions (I guess he figured if Turgeon was going to in that playoffs, he might as well join him) but he wasn't very active or proactive about it. He got to a man, hung with him but if his check really wanted to get away from him, he could. He got back really well in Game 4 vs. Montreal (I think) to break up a 3 on 2 from behind, so I see he can skate...

Big time top speed? Nah, not really. But it was hard to get a beat on it because he didn't frequently skate that hard. But he's a fine skater, like I said, above average probably. Skated hardest when he had the puck and room to go. Otherwise, bleh. Went to the front of the net on power plays too. Not sure what TOI estimates say from the season...but he looked like first power play, but an every-other-shift* type of guy almost exclusively with Turgeon at even strength.

* - by that I mean, Turgeon would go without him, 2nd line, 3rd/4th line, then Turgeon would go again with King, 2nd line, 3rd/4th line, then Turgeon without him and so on...


Last edited by Mike Farkas: 11-16-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 01:04 PM
  #516
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Edit2: McClelland brings everything Burrows brings to a checking line except offense. He was fast, gritty, tough and a great hitter.
He is simply not as skilled a player overall. Before being teamed with the Sedins, Burrows was still a pretty highly relied-upon checker, playing 15:06 per game. McClelland was a career 9.34 minute player, topping out at 11.8 in the 1985 season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
To expand on it (since he broke out in 08-09):

08-09: 16/28 goals not assisted by a Sedin
08-09 Playoffs: 2/3 goals not assisted by a Sedin
09-10: 11/35 goals not assisted by a Sedin
09-10 Playoffs: 0/3 goals assisted by a Sedin (to be fair, 2 were EN)
10-11: 6/26 goals not assisted by a Sedin
11-12 Playoffs: 6/9 goals not assisted by a Sedin
That is surprising. Thanks.

what about 2011 playoffs and 2012 regular season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
That's just a hypothesis of yours. Hard to say how he'd fare against the same level of junk competition that Plekanec faced.
Everything is just a hypothesis. But mine is backed up with facts. You’re focusing on the fact that playing on a team with weak forwards makes it easier to lead that team, but ignoring that you have to play with two of those weak forwards, who make your quest to score more difficult.

In his best 3 years, Hogue scored 0.84 adjusted points per game from 1992-1994, playing on a line with a guy who was scoring 1.21.

Plekanec scored 0.88 adjusted points per game in his best 3, and though I don’t know 100% who his linemates were, but the 3 best habs wingers over that time averaged 0.74 combined, so no matter who he was playing with, he tended to be the offensive catalyst.

What would he score with a 100 point winger instead of 50 point wingers? This isn’t rocket science.

Quote:
Compared to Henrik, sure. But a player with 1:1.59 G:A ratio is obviously playmaking biased regardless.
Average assists per goal is 1.72.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
so Sedins assists on 63% of his goals. Add to it that he still plays with the Sedins who gets the better defensive players on them and we have an answer to Burrows sudden goal scoring boost.
I’m seeing 61%. Anyway, that’s pretty low, isn’t it? Much lower than any of us would have guessed.

And isn’t playing against better defensive players in Burrows’ favour? Sounds like you’re somehow using it against him.

Quote:
http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/18...ss-with-skill/

Here is an analysis of several players who are playing with better linemates.

and one on quality of shots.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/17/quan...ing-percentage
I’m not sure what the point of that is. That seems to highlight the value of glue guys like Burrows. It looks really good for him, from what I can see.

The second part is obvious, and we already knew that, though it’s nice that someone went ahead and actually quantified it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
So you have some reports from his early career saying he isn't exceptionally fast, and I have a report from the end of his career that repeatedly emphasizes that he was fast.

Conclusion: Your source is right, mine is wrong, and he is a worse player than when we started the conversation.
LOH has been shown to be wrong about many things in the past. Simple things like players’ positions.

These reports are based on actually watching the players play.

Quote:
So, no response to the actual points I made? I mean, it matters how much help they had, right? Every winger we draft here is going to have a pretty good center, and we can’t just say “they have help, so they’ll be ok”, correct? The guy who can also do it by himself would have to be a safer bet, wouldn’t he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
OT, but look how off-center the logo is relative to the stripe on that sweater. Today's Chinese knockoffs have nothing on old school not-giving-a-****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I don't know re:King, I think he's basically a one-dimensional Jeff Friesen even if King had more help getting there. His PP numbers are better than some of the people above him too.
I was actually thinking that too. Friesen had a lot more to his game, and had roughly the same peak offensive numbers, and seemed to do it with a lot less help:

- He led his team in scoring twice, though they were bad teams*
- He once had a linemate outscore him by 23 points (2000 Owen Nolan) but aside from that, looks like he never had a linemate outscore him by more than 6 in his peak 5 seasons. Whereas King achieved about the same from a points standpoint (a tad less if you go by adjusted points), the closest he ever came to his team leader was 17 points, and it was usually much more than that, and that team leader was always his linemate (except maybe not Palffy)

(*I mentioned King led Hartford in 1997, but I was mistaken; he went there late in the season and actually had 53 points in NY, outscored badly by Palffy, although I am not positive Palffy was his RW.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
King's LOH profile doesn't just have a throwaway line about his speed, it mentions his speed multiple times as key to his game.

But those scouting reports are pretty clear that his speed wasn't an asset. All the scouting reports are by the same source, right?
Same publication, but the scouts and authors changed a bit over the years. His entire report was re-written a few times during his career, so it wasn’t just year-by-year regurgitating.

Quote:
Either one of the two sources is out to lunch, or King got a lot faster at some point.

Perhaps we could (gasp) ask a few fans who remember seeing him play regularly. I barely remember him even though I must have seen him play quite a few times.
Well, I can tell you he wasn’t fast in Toronto at all, and that’s where he played his last two seasons. He was an opportunistic scorer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Well, last night and early this morning I watched a couple of games from the 1993 playoffs specifically to watch Derek King. I thought, "it's pointless bickering about something we could obviously see with video...so I'll look"

Now, I only watched him in 1993 games, so it's in his prime. And here's what I got:

He played on the left wing with Pierre Turgeon mostly, but usually on Turgeon's "second shift" - Turgeon looks to have been double-shifted at least against Montreal, once he got stuck against Kirk Muller, and then Arbour would try to get him matched up against a soft, offensive player like Lebeau. The latter is when King would join him it seems.

Can King skate? Yes. Is he Fedorov fast? Certainly not. I'd call him above average in the skating department if I had to make a call. Iffy in transition and balance, but not a bad skater by any means. Not slow either. I can see where one might get "slow" from because he is not a hard worker. He did, however, come back deep on defense on a couple of occasions (I guess he figured if Turgeon was going to in that playoffs, he might as well join him) but he wasn't very active or proactive about it. He got to a man, hung with him but if his check really wanted to get away from him, he could. He got back really well in Game 4 vs. Montreal (I think) to break up a 3 on 2 from behind, so I see he can skate...

Big time top speed? Nah, not really. But it was hard to get a beat on it because he didn't frequently skate that hard. But he's a fine skater, like I said, above average probably. Skated hardest when he had the puck and room to go. Otherwise, bleh. Went to the front of the net on power plays too. Not sure what TOI estimates say from the season...but he looked like first power play, but an every-other-shift* type of guy almost exclusively with Turgeon at even strength.

* - by that I mean, Turgeon would go without him, 2nd line, 3rd/4th line, then Turgeon would go again with King, 2nd line, 3rd/4th line, then Turgeon without him and so on...
Thank you for the info.

TOI backs up what you’re saying, because from 1992-1994 King averaged about 13 minutes a game at ES, and 4.5 more on the PP. while Turgeon averaged 15.5 and 4.5.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-16-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 01:13 PM
  #517
MadArcand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Average assists per goal is 1.72.
That seems a bit a high. Does it also include defensemen?

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11-16-2012, 01:29 PM
  #518
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That seems a bit a high. Does it also include defensemen?
it does. good point. the average for forwards was 1.38 last year.

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11-16-2012, 01:37 PM
  #519
MadArcand
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So Daniel Sedin is a bit playmaking biased after all.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:30 PM
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
He is simply not as skilled a player overall. Before being teamed with the Sedins, Burrows was still a pretty highly relied-upon checker, playing 15:06 per game. McClelland was a career 9.34 minute player, topping out at 11.8 in the 1985 season.
On the Oilers checking line. We all know hw much they cared about defense. This is getting pretty tiresome. Burrows was an energy player his first two seasons, then hes paired with Kesler and suddenly becomes a defensive stalwart and when he gets on Sedins line he becomes an offensive guy.

Do you honestly not see the pattern? He's speed and physicallity with a bit of goalscoring touch.

Quote:
Iím seeing 61%. Anyway, thatís pretty low, isnít it? Much lower than any of us would have guessed.

And isnít playing against better defensive players in Burrowsí favour? Sounds like youíre somehow using it against him.
I was talking about the regular season as playoffs is usually a different kind of beast specially when it comes to glue guys.

No its not in favour for Burrows as he is usually pretty free on the ice (something which Sedins former partners also were) Sedins draw men away from Burrows.







and its not like he is searching for open areas the team simply focuses on the stars liek Sedins or Kesler leaving Burrows available.

Quote:
Iím not sure what the point of that is. That seems to highlight the value of glue guys like Burrows. It looks really good for him, from what I can see.
Yes it promotes the value of any glue guy. What the point is? I thought that was pretty obvious. He is 20-30% better with the Sedins and in hockey thats quite a lot (in one season it was even an 80% boost).

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11-16-2012, 02:51 PM
  #521
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Who is on the clock?

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11-16-2012, 03:33 PM
  #522
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Big News! Regina has finally settled on a goalie!

Dreakmur and I were finally able to come to an agreement that one goalie stands out among those available. And that goalie is Cesare Maniago.

Here’s what we liked about him:

- He had good staying power in the NHL, with more career GP than most available goalies despite coming of age during the O6 era (with the benefit of a 12-16 team league in his 20s, he would likely have a few hundred more to his credit)
- He was a workhorse goalie, finishing top-10 in minutes 5 times (2nd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 9th), and this doesn’t count his 8th and 10th pre-expansion – for obvious reasons those would be misleading to include.
- He was often among the sv% leaders (5th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th)
- Despite playing well into his declining years he maintained a weighted sv% averaging 1.3 points better than the league average in his career
- His 36 playoff games are a pretty decent sample for an AAA goalie
- He actually topped the playoff sv% average by a weighted 5.8 points over his career.
- While he was a “tweener” thanks to an O6 NHL numbers game, he was a pretty successful minor league goalie, going 146-121-13 between 1960 and 1966. Being that he was up-and-down, he often didn’t play enough games to get award consideration, but when he did, the EPHL called him the best goalie in 1962, and the CPHL called him the best goalie and MVP in 1965. He also won the 1960 Allan Cup.

From a previous post:

Quote:


Maniago had good size (6'3", 190), especially for the 1970s, and toiled for years on the mediocre Minnesota North stars. He finished his career with a 190-257 record and 15-21 in the playoffs. His GAA was certainly nothing special, but he did manage, over the course of his career, to post a sv% (.901) slightly above the league average over that time. He placed 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th among NHL goalies in sv% in his best years, indicative of a good goalie getting pelted with a lot of rubber.

Some of Maniago's best seasons came when he was paired with Gump Worsley in the Minnesota nets. As a good point of reference, this 41-44-year old HHOFer posted a .918 sv% for Minnesota in these seasons while taking on a light workload (29.4% of the minutes). Maniago posted a .910 sv% while playing 53% of the minutes. Who was outperforming whom? Tough to say.

Maniago retired after playing 46 games in the 1977-78 season. At the time, only the ageless Eddie Johnston (42) was older among goalies in the NHL or WHA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey's Best Books
As one of only five NHL goalies who played 150 games in the 1960s and 250 games in the 1970s, Maniago was an unsung hero who personifies all the greatness and change of pro hockey during his time... renowned as a superb ‘team’ player who was both a throwback and a pioneer, a workhorse and a stalwart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischler's Hockey Encyclopedia
When he flops to the ice to block a shot, he looks like a whooping crane in extemis, and when he removes his mask he carries the long-faced look od a man who has just lost his dog or his best friend. It could only be Cesare Maniago, veteran cager of the Minnesota North Stars.

...after expansion, proved he was something more than a sub goalie...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaltenders: the expansion Years
The 1969-70 season would prove to be particularly difficult as the mounting defensive problems and the lack of support from a proven backup led to him seriously contemplating retirement...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1972
Workhorse goalie who was Minnesota's first expansion draft choice...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1974
Agile for a big man and uses legs well to block shots but looks somewhat unorthodox...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1975
"Hail Cesare" has become a familiar cheer around the Met center...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1976
Has aged well... after abandoning thoughts of retiring, carried bulk of North Stars goaltending... reflexes are still sharp...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1978
Ability is often overlooked because he has played with more losers than winners...
Fun with stats:

Minnesota Goalie sv%, 1968-1976:

Worsley (107 GP) .919
Maniago (420 GP) .906
All others (239 GP) .881

If you don't count Worsley as a usual replacement-level backup, then Maniago was 27% better than his backups over his Minnesota tenure. In ATD2010, I showed that Parent outperformed his backups by 21%, exceeded only by Hasek among elite goalies (29%). If you lump Worsley in with the rest, Maniago outperformed them as a group by 14% - still Dryden/Esposito-level dominance.

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11-16-2012, 04:04 PM
  #523
seventieslord
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Ooh, there's someone in this thread right now called HockeyAnalysis.

I'm intrigued.

Say something, bro! Analyze us.

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11-16-2012, 04:04 PM
  #524
tarheelhockey
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Mike, thanks for taking time to find and watch the King video.

[QUOTE=TheDevilMadeMe;55808303]
Either one of the two sources is out to lunch, or King got a lot faster at some point.

That's what I am taking from the scouting reports. The ones that complain specifically about his speed are from the late 1980s... King hit his stride in the early 1990s and the criticism is more generally about his "skating", which could be anything but appears to mean agility.

What Mike found on the video seems to parallel those observations -- he wasn't Mike Gartner, but he was a quick goal-scoring type of winger. Which, as I said at the beginning of this whole fracas, is exactly what I intended to draft for a partner to Raleigh. Still not sure why that's an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreadsheetlord
So, no response to the actual points I made?
Sometimes I laugh at the things people manage to say.

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11-16-2012, 04:11 PM
  #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
That is surprising. Thanks.

what about 2011 playoffs and 2012 regular season?
I had mis-labeled the 2011 playoffs as the 2012 playoffs. I'll fix that.

The 2012 regular season was the on I posted earlier, 13 of 28 unassisted by a Sedin

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