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2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART IV

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:27 PM
  #726
BennyBST
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Mitchell Theoret

I wonder how his prospects are looking now for an ELC? The kid has been producing very pleasantly with Strome. I'm not sure that he'll get lost in a numbers game where we won't have a spot to sign him. But man he's been on fire.

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11-15-2012, 09:11 PM
  #727
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I wonder how his prospects are looking now for an ELC? The kid has been producing very pleasantly with Strome. I'm not sure that he'll get lost in a numbers game where we won't have a spot to sign him. But man he's been on fire.
too tough to tell on Theoret. He's having a nice year but he's a very limited player. If he gets an AHL contract, he'll need to improve a great deal to make that team.

Last year of junior stats, especially when playing with Strome, can be very misleading. Not too long ago, Justin DiBenedetto (sans Stamkos) had Tavares-like stats.

But for a player like Theoret, his pro game will have to be in the Matt Martin/Michael Haley mold, bit of an agitator, physical, energy player, chip in some offense.

Apparently, the kid has a great attitude and work ethic, is committed to improvement so it's easy to pull for the kid, especially now that he's adding some offense to his game. But this next step is a huge one for him.
-----

Just finished watching Lee/Russo for Notre Dame in their 3-1W over Michigan.

Lee won't get better in the NCAA. He's ready for the next level and I'm surprised he returned for his final year. The education will serve him well but I don't think it's helping his hockey career much. He'll be 23 in his first NHL camp, he's older than Tavares.

Good player though, smart, still needs to improve his skating but will be interesting to see what kind of AHL player he will be. Hopefully he signs with the NYI.

Russo's an interesting one. He's still 19 years old, second year. He looks smaller than the 6'0" 194 listed on the NCAA site but very smart, smooth, good passer. He could still develop into a pretty good defenseman over the next two years, before he turns pro.

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11-15-2012, 11:47 PM
  #728
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Watching Subway Series - Reinhart looking really good again (you can read the thread in the prospects board for more context/opinions)

Rielly's the most exciting player on the ice, great skater, hockey sense, but playing some sloppy hockey and trying to do too much at times. WHL playing poorly and will lose.

Next hockey, exciting & really competitive hockey, will be the WJC. Hopefully we'll see Reinhart, Strome, Pelech, Pokka, would like to see Russo but not sure.

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11-16-2012, 12:10 AM
  #729
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Watching Subway Series - Reinhart looking really good again (you can read the thread in the prospects board for more context/opinions)

Rielly's the most exciting player on the ice, great skater, hockey sense, but playing some sloppy hockey and trying to do too much at times. WHL playing poorly and will lose.

Next hockey, exciting & really competitive hockey, will be the WJC. Hopefully we'll see Reinhart, Strome, Pelech, Pokka, would like to see Russo but not sure.
Rielly is impressive, but I see a lot of Bryan Berard in him. Can be a game breaker offensively, but I wouldn't want him out there protecting a 1 goal lead late in the 3rd period.

Reinhart is as advertised from reports. The kid is just a rock back there and he is Canada's top shutdown d-man with Murray. Head on a swivel and just really intelligent out there. It might be the role he's utilized in, but his game is just no frills responsible and I can't remember seeing him on the ice whenever Russia scored in either game. The kid showed he's a beast on the PK tonight. His combination of size, mobility, reach, smarts, and positioning make him really hard for opposing forwards to beat. I think he's got to be a lock for the WJC because there is no one else with his skillset - he'll be on the shutdown pairing with extensive PK work.

He could make big strides the rest of the year and in the offseason, but I hope he goes back to Edmonton next year. I think he's kind of been pigeon-holed into a purely defensive role for the Oil Kings and for Team Canada. Not a bad thing for this year actually, but I'd like to see him expand his offensive game next year and just refine his game in general. He could stand to get a little quicker and try and add that extra step in his skating (paging Dawn Braid), I think he'll be ready to jump straight to the NHL in 2014-2015. His man strength should be coming in right about then considering his October '94 birth date.

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11-16-2012, 02:01 AM
  #730
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Thursday

Notre Dame 3, Michigan 1-Russo, 1 assist, even, Lee, + 1.

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11-16-2012, 04:34 AM
  #731
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Thursday

Notre Dame 3, Michigan 1-Russo, 1 assist, even, Lee, + 1.
Not to be a negative nelly, but a bad pass in his own end, directly led to Michigan's only goal. The announcers were saying Russo may be pressing, because Ken Morrow was there as well as scouts for the American WJHC team, which Russo is trying really hard to make.

On the Michigan side, Jacob Trouba looked incredible. He's going to be a VERY special defenseman. This is not a dig at Reinhart, just being honest at what I saw with my own eyes. Trouba plays a fierce game, skates very well, will jump into the play, and plays a great defensive game as well.

What I saw of Reinhart, especially last night against the Russians was, EVERY key defensive situation, the WHL coach had Reinhart out there. There was a Russian 5 on 3 pp, and Reinhart was a freaking rock out there, blocking shots, moving people out of the slot, playing a smart game with his stick and body. It was an exciting thing to watch, and I can understand why people are touting him. He may not be the most flashy defenseman from the 2012 draft, but hey, Rod Langway won a Norris Trophy once, and was not known as an offensive defenseman, I'll take something similar. To me though, Reinhart reminds me of a thicker Ken Morrow, certainly not a bad thing either.


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11-16-2012, 04:44 AM
  #732
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To me though, Reinhart reminds me of a thicker Ken Morrow, certainly not a bad thing either.
See, to me he's another Kenny Jonsson (again, not a bad thing.) I was watching his decision-making, and every time he got the puck on his stick, he made the absolutely safest play, when he had other more immediate options. Never cleared the puck to the slot, always cleared to open ice. Reinhart is unlikely to be an offensive force, but with all the midget offensive D-men we have, we need someone who will be the go-to shutdown giant.

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11-16-2012, 04:53 AM
  #733
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See, to me he's another Kenny Jonsson (again, not a bad thing.) I was watching his decision-making, and every time he got the puck on his stick, he made the absolutely safest play, when he had other more immediate options. Never cleared the puck to the slot, always cleared to open ice. Reinhart is unlikely to be an offensive force, but with all the midget offensive D-men we have, we need someone who will be the go-to shutdown giant.
Don't forget, Kenny once scored 14 goals and close to 60 points in a season. He had excellent offensive tendencies, but, it seemed like he really cared about defense way more, which wound up being a wonderful thing for us Islander's fans. I don't think we'll ever see Reinhart score 14 goals or near 60 points. That being said, he also reminds me of a somewhat slower skating Marc Staal, which would not be a terrible thing either.

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11-16-2012, 05:12 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Don't forget, Kenny once scored 14 goals and close to 60 points in a season. He had excellent offensive tendencies, but, it seemed like he really cared about defense way more, which wound up being a wonderful thing for us Islander's fans. I don't think we'll ever see Reinhart score 14 goals or near 60 points. That being said, he also reminds me of a somewhat slower skating Marc Staal, which would not be a terrible thing either.
Kenny Jonsson's career high for points was 40, which I suspect is the season you are referencing, but you were looking at his PIM rather than points. Aside from his one 40 point campaign, he has one 32 point season, and the the rest are in the 20s (though in several seasons he was on pace to hit the 30s, but injury held him from playing enough games).

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11-16-2012, 06:59 AM
  #735
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It is very interesting at the rate prospects develop. After the Islanders drafted Hamonic he just
soared. Who knew he would be an NHL regular after about 20 games?

Best thing for Strome has been he has been in Niagara all year. The all around game
is coming together, he's a little stronger, getting more involved in traffic. The skating while
better still needs work, he's not quite there yet.

Reinhart in a way is like Strome, he needs time. His defensive play for his age is very
advanced and is very smart. There are tools that remain untapped. While he's not likely
to be offensive whiz, the question is what will Reinhart turn into once that big frame of his fills
out,and the skating improves. He can't be rushed.

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11-16-2012, 07:07 AM
  #736
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On the Michigan side, Jacob Trouba looked incredible. He's going to be a VERY special defenseman. This is not a dig at Reinhart, just being honest at what I saw with my own eyes. Trouba plays a fierce game, skates very well, will jump into the play, and plays a great defensive game as well.
At the U-18 last Spring, only Seth Jones impressed me more than Trouba. He looked great out there for the US. I loved that he was checking everything in site, but was also very confident on the puck, be it with a pass or in carrying it out of the zone.

Great heads-up player and just the type of guy you want to see sitting there if you're picking 7th or 8th in the draft.

Looking forward to see what he can do one day at the NHL level and hopefully also for Team USA.

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11-16-2012, 08:45 AM
  #737
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Is Reinhart slow or is he calm?

You rarely see him turn on the jets probably because he never has to. But when he takes full strides he's not as slow as some people may think. I think he has a lot of leg power but his strides are long which make him appear slower because he covers more distance per step. Not saying he is a speed demon or anything, but speed is not one of the tools he relies on. Which I consider a good thing.

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11-16-2012, 10:11 AM
  #738
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Is Reinhart slow or is he calm?

You rarely see him turn on the jets probably because he never has to. But when he takes full strides he's not as slow as some people may think. I think he has a lot of leg power but his strides are long which make him appear slower because he covers more distance per step. Not saying he is a speed demon or anything, but speed is not one of the tools he relies on. Which I consider a good thing.
He looks really slow out there but he's not. His size and stride is deceptive and he's very poised. His on-ice composure with the puck is deHaan-like, in a good way. But Reinhart is far better without the puck than any Isles dman I've seen since Jonsson (yes, I know he's still a kid, but it's the way he plays that I'm referring to)

On rare occasions, he'll jump into the rush or lead the rush and he can move. He's very tall and still think, he'll never have the quickness of Morgan Rielly but I remember how bad a skater Chara was. When you're 6'4" and can move the puck, have a good head for defense, can pass, have hockey sense, you're a lock for a long and successful NHL career.

Reinhart's a blue-chipper in my opinion.

At worst, he'll be an effective second pairing defenseman who can play 20 minutes a night, kill penalties, be on the ice the last minute of every game when down a goal.

And I believe he's got untapped offensive potential too.

I don't believe he'll have the mean streak people love for a guy with his size, but that may develop. Hal Gill developed a bit of a mean streak to his game that was non-existent in his early NHL days.

I'm really liking this prospect!

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11-16-2012, 10:47 AM
  #739
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I agree. Especially with the Chara skating comparison. Those big guys are deceptive in the way they move. Even more so as youths. But every game I've seen Reinhart, I have seen almost zero offense. That is where my doubts are.

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11-16-2012, 11:14 AM
  #740
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I agree. Especially with the Chara skating comparison. Those big guys are deceptive in the way they move. Even more so as youths. But every game I've seen Reinhart, I have seen almost zero offense. That is where my doubts are.
It's clear that Reinhart is going to earn his keep in the NHL as a shut down guy. He'll be able to log big minutes and be on the #1PK and probably the #2PP. Of course it's concerning when a #4 overall pick isn't putting up the expected numbers, but he still has some time to develop that part of his game when given the opportunity.

It's not as if he's getting major PP minutes and he's obviously in the role of shutdown guy evident from the two Super Series games. He's just not being utilized in an offensive capacity. The Oil Kings use him that way and it's clear that Team Canada views him that way also. The kid is a rock back there though, no one can deny that. He's been kind of type cast and set in that role (because he's so damn solid at it) and will probably continue to be used in that fashion the rest of his Junior career. The kid is supposed to have a big shot, not being utilized by the coaching staff IMO.

I can definitely see the KJ comparison though and I'd be thrilled if Reinhart does develop into KJ 2.0. I just hope that he's given the opportunity to be used in a more offensive role and given some premium PP play to unleash his vaunted shot in the future. I get the feeling that he won't be given that opportunity until he's established himself in the NHL. That's my main concern with him, but I'm slowly not feeling so bad that we passed on Forsberg. Big Griff should be a tower of power for a long time on the Isles.

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11-16-2012, 11:23 AM
  #741
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It's clear that Reinhart is going to earn his keep in the NHL as a shut down guy. He'll be able to log big minutes and be on the #1PK and probably the #2PP. Of course it's concerning when a #4 overall pick isn't putting up the expected numbers, but he still has some time to develop that part of his game when given the opportunity.

It's not as if he's getting major PP minutes and he's obviously in the role of shutdown guy evident from the two Super Series games. He's just not being utilized in an offensive capacity. The Oil Kings use him that way and it's clear that Team Canada views him that way also. The kid is a rock back there though, no one can deny that. My main concern is that he's been set in that role and (because he's so damn solid at it) will continue to be used in that fashion the rest of his Junior career. The kid is supposed to have a big shot, not being utilized by the coaching staff IMO.

I can definitely see the KJ comparison though and I'd be thrilled if Reinhart does develop into KJ 2.0. I just hope that he's given the opportunity to be used in a more offensive role and given some premium PP play to unleash his vaunted shot in the future. I get the feeling that he won't be given that opportunity until he's established himself in the NHL. That's my main concern with him, but I'm slowly not feeling so bad that we passed on Forsberg. Big Griff should be a tower of power for a long time on the Isles.
Agree about the role Reinhart is playing. If Adam Pelech was traded from Erie to Edmonton for
Reinhart (just an example), Pelech would be used strictly as the shutdown guy, on Erie Reinhart
would be the clear number one d man playing top powerplay time for. To his credit, Pelech is taking full advantage of his role in Erie. He does have a hard shot (though no points Wednesay against Niagara but he hit a post and a crossbar) and is an outstanding passer.

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11-16-2012, 11:52 AM
  #742
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Agree about the role Reinhart is playing. If Adam Pelech was traded from Erie to Edmonton for
Reinhart (just an example), Pelech would be used strictly as the shutdown guy, on Erie Reinhart
would be the clear number one d man playing top powerplay time for. To his credit, Pelech is taking full advantage of his role in Erie. He does have a hard shot (though no points Wednesay against Niagara but he hit a post and a crossbar) and is an outstanding passer.
Man, the thought of Reinhart, Pelech, Mayfield, Pedan and Hamonic roaming our blue line in a few years just makes me feel really excited about our future. They are all shut down d-men that can add some offense, and I really feel our offensive d-man and power play specialist of the future is Donovan. That guy has produced offensively on EVERY level. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever see De Haan make an impact in the NHL.

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11-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #743
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It's clear that Reinhart is going to earn his keep in the NHL as a shut down guy. He'll be able to log big minutes and be on the #1PK and probably the #2PP. Of course it's concerning when a #4 overall pick isn't putting up the expected numbers, but he still has some time to develop that part of his game when given the opportunity.
Exactly. Reinhart IMO was not BPA at #4 and the Islanders drafted for need which I am on record for not believing in that draft strategy (I'm a BPA guy). At first I was like, 'what?..why?' but I see now the kind of player he is and I am excited about him. He really balanced out our prospect pool. But there are expectations when drafted that high. Fans will probably always critique him on that. But Isles scouting didn't seem to care nor does Reinhart.

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11-16-2012, 01:11 PM
  #744
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Does anyone know of a safe website(im at work) that i can watch a stream of the niagara game tonight ?

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11-16-2012, 01:15 PM
  #745
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Man, the thought of Reinhart, Pelech, Mayfield, Pedan and Hamonic roaming our blue line in a few years just makes me feel really excited about our future. They are all shut down d-men that can add some offense, and I really feel our offensive d-man and power play specialist of the future is Donovan. That guy has produced offensively on EVERY level. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever see De Haan make an impact in the NHL.
Scott, I think Pedan's offense is under rated. He can move the puck and has a bomb for
a shot.

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11-16-2012, 01:18 PM
  #746
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I'm hoping Reinhart becomes a Rod Langway type, Langway averaged 4 goals and 22 assists a year. His high was 11 goals and 34 assists early in his career in Montreal (also his career high in PIM's w/120, he averaged about 65 PIM's a year). The year/s he won the Norris Trophy, he was putting up high 20's low 30's as far as points per year, and played great defense. If Reinhart can be a similar type player, I'd be thrilled.

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11-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #747
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Exactly. Reinhart IMO was not BPA at #4 and the Islanders drafted for need which I am on record for not believing in that draft strategy (I'm a BPA guy). At first I was like, 'what?..why?' but I see now the kind of player he is and I am excited about him. He really balanced out our prospect pool. But there are expectations when drafted that high. Fans will probably always critique him on that. But Isles scouting didn't seem to care nor does Reinhart.
who do you feel was BPA available at #4?

Because those rankings were all over the place after Yakupov and Murray, both before the draft AND on draft day.

Plus. It's WAY early to be gauging the draft when nobody's played a game yet.

I wouldn't be so quick to limit Reinhart's offensive upside. He's got pretty good offensive skills and instincts, great passer and a real nice shot.

The hardest part of any dman's job, especially in the NHL, is to learn the defensive side. For an all-offense guy, the offense is easy, but is usually accompanied with a disaster in their own zone (Cam Fowler, Jake Gardiner to a lesser extent, who's older and soon, Morgan Rielly) Even Viktor Hedman and Tyler Myers and Zack Bogosian have struggled with this.

The one thing I worry about with Reinhart is his compete level. He seems very cool and calm and mild-mannered, like he'd almost say "i'm sorry" if he hit someone too hard. His baby-face and olive-oil skin doesn't help!

I'm not suggesting he needs to have a mean streak but we don't want another Ty Wishart who's big but not physical, isn't good enough offensively OR defensively.

Of course it's WAY too early to say. I believe he'll be a very good hockey player who will never be as physical as you'd want for someone that big, but frankly, I don't care. Hitting is really difficult to do well as a defenseman and MOST young players can't do it without getting into problems positionally (Mike Komisarek, Luke Schenn). The ones who play physical do it RARELY and spend a lot of time on positioning, stick work, board play - that's the kind of player I see in Reinhart.

Now, if he can channel even half the offense his dad brought to the game, well, then we have a superstar in the makings. OR, we have Kent Nilsson's kid.

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11-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #748
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Scott, I think Pedan's offense is under rated. He can move the puck and has a bomb for
a shot.
Yeah, I noticed that during the rookie scrimmage of 2011. Also, he's a good stickhandler as well, look up the OHL's Plays for October, he makes a nice rush beating some guys using an inside out move, and making a perfect pass for the goal.

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11-16-2012, 01:48 PM
  #749
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who do you feel was BPA available at #4?

Because those rankings were all over the place after Yakupov and Murray, both before the draft AND on draft day.

Plus. It's WAY early to be gauging the draft when nobody's played a game yet.

I wouldn't be so quick to limit Reinhart's offensive upside. He's got pretty good offensive skills and instincts, great passer and a real nice shot.

The hardest part of any dman's job, especially in the NHL, is to learn the defensive side. For an all-offense guy, the offense is easy, but is usually accompanied with a disaster in their own zone (Cam Fowler, Jake Gardiner to a lesser extent, who's older and soon, Morgan Rielly) Even Viktor Hedman and Tyler Myers and Zack Bogosian have struggled with this.

The one thing I worry about with Reinhart is his compete level. He seems very cool and calm and mild-mannered, like he'd almost say "i'm sorry" if he hit someone too hard. His baby-face and olive-oil skin doesn't help!

I'm not suggesting he needs to have a mean streak but we don't want another Ty Wishart who's big but not physical, isn't good enough offensively OR defensively.

Of course it's WAY too early to say. I believe he'll be a very good hockey player who will never be as physical as you'd want for someone that big, but frankly, I don't care. Hitting is really difficult to do well as a defenseman and MOST young players can't do it without getting into problems positionally (Mike Komisarek, Luke Schenn). The ones who play physical do it RARELY and spend a lot of time on positioning, stick work, board play - that's the kind of player I see in Reinhart.

Now, if he can channel even half the offense his dad brought to the game, well, then we have a superstar in the makings. OR, we have Kent Nilsson's kid.
LOVE Reinhart's game, and look forward to seeing him play, but we're ALL gonna be looking at Grigorenko and wondering why in a few years IMHO.

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11-16-2012, 01:54 PM
  #750
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LOVE Reinhart's game, and look forward to seeing him play, but we're ALL gonna be looking at Grigorenko and wondering why in a few years IMHO.
Agree 100%. Steal of the draft, and very dumb move by teams scouts listening to something that went viral. One guy says Grigorenko is lazy, before even knowing he was sick, and then the thing just balloons to where every scout repeats it. Buffalo was licking their chops when Grigorenko was still there. Grigorenko looks great again this year.

Kinda reminds me of the negative press Tavares went through prior to his draft, it was so bad that scouts were saying Duchene and Hedman were better players.

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