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Old
11-06-2012, 07:06 PM
  #26
ChiGuySez
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The Hawks goalie situation is crowded right now. Simpson and Carruth were drafted in '10, Mattsson in '11 and Whitney and Tompkins in '12. Between the AHL and ECHL, thats 4 slots max. If Hutton is resigned and continues to hold his AHL slot, that leaves 3 positions open. Assuming no one is promoted to back up Crawford, 3 of these guys are released. Id wait at least 1 or 2 more years before drafting another goalie unless the Hawks determine none of these 6 will be working out.

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11-06-2012, 09:11 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
The Hawks goalie situation is crowded right now. Simpson and Carruth were drafted in '10, Mattsson in '11 and Whitney and Tompkins in '12. Between the AHL and ECHL, thats 4 slots max. If Hutton is resigned and continues to hold his AHL slot, that leaves 3 positions open. Assuming no one is promoted to back up Crawford, 3 of these guys are released. Id wait at least 1 or 2 more years before drafting another goalie unless the Hawks determine none of these 6 will be working out.
yeah, i think i agree with you. i have a habit of getting really excited about "high profile" promising goalies...but it's not what we need to be drafting right now...so i'll do my best to avoid wandering out onto the ledge this draft year

i feel really good about this draft. it's deep to begin with...and on top of that there are always players who drop. drafts under bowman have been good so far ... so i think we'll be fine.

i'd love to see someone like lazar or shinkaruk drop. improbable, but look at teuvo

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11-07-2012, 12:41 AM
  #28
Bubba88
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hockey is always BPA.

99% of the drafted players will not help in the year they have been drafted anyways

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11-07-2012, 12:59 AM
  #29
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If the BPA was drafted in every draft, then no first round picks would be busts. BPA is qualifed only by the people making the pick and theres clear evidence half dont know what they're doing.

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11-07-2012, 02:01 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
hockey is always BPA.

99% of the drafted players will not help in the year they have been drafted anyways
assuming there's an easily identifiable "best player available".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
If the BPA was drafted in every draft, then no first round picks would be busts. BPA is qualifed only by the people making the pick and theres clear evidence half dont know what they're doing.
The BPA isn't always so easy. You're looking at players who are mainly 17 and 18 years old - and trying to project what they'll become. Maybe if you're picking at the very top of the draft the bpa is easy to identify - but if you're picking 15-30 (which is where the hawks will be picking for the foreseeable future) it's more complicated.

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11-07-2012, 05:45 AM
  #31
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no matter how you see it, but you draft the BPA. Who the BPA is? Teams have lists and will draft the player that is the highest at their lists. They go with this, not the position.

You don't draft a G over a F because you need one, you draft them because you think they are the best value for this pick.

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11-07-2012, 04:48 PM
  #32
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If the BPA is some softie like Kruger, Kane, TT, etc, you do not take the BPA. We don't need any more of these players unless you want to continue to be a 1st round fodder.

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11-08-2012, 05:41 AM
  #33
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you take them. You take what you think will end up as the best player. Can always trade them if you have too much of those kind of players

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11-08-2012, 07:43 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
If the BPA is some softie like Kruger, Kane, TT, etc, you do not take the BPA. We don't need any more of these players unless you want to continue to be a 1st round fodder.
Too many Kane's is never a problem.

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11-08-2012, 09:09 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Too many Kane's is never a problem.
It's rare to find a Kane in the middle of the order.

You don't take another small under sized winger this year, we already have enough.

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11-12-2012, 11:38 AM
  #36
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Well the good news is that it bis a deep draft so we should still get a good prospect with our first rounder even if we draft middle to late in the round ..

HOWEVER- I still think that at some point we must take a chance to draft a premium top of the draft class type goalie ---despite the 'crowded" goalie scene some posters have described I am not that convinced that any of Simpson,Carruth, or even MATTSSON (if they sign him) or the kiddies WHITNEY and TOMKINS are any of them "A" grade goalie potential...

I would gues we either take a BIG D-man or with our 1 shot high in the draft (Only a first rounder--no 2nd or 3rds) we finally take the 1st or 2nd goalie to go in the draft..


I have seen the hyped ZACHARY FUCALE (albeit only a half a game against Russia in the Subway-Super series) --but both on his less than impressive save % in the Q this year (Despite a relatively low amount of shots faced) and on the athletic style he did show against Russia (not letting in a goal in his half a game but I saw lots of net by his being not very good technically covering the angles --looks more lke a reaction goalie than anticipation and square to shooters) --NOT IMPRESSED.


I have not watched SPENCER MARTIN yet for MISSISSAUGA--he willbe the #1 goalie out of theOHL --and could be the first overall taken...I will have to focus on him from this point on when I watch OHL ACTION PAK instead of watching so many LONDON KNIGHTS games...IS MARTIN the beneficiary of a solid MISSISSAUGA defence or is he the reason they are so good in the standings this year. I need to watch them to find out for sure and learn his technique to see if I like it or not..


Speaking of the LONDON KNIGHTS--I have like JAKE PATTERSON (6'1 191) even since last season when i saw him in a few games--and now he has been red hot in net in his last several games--making a STATEMENT to be the #1 starting goalie and taking that job from vet KEVIN BAILIE ...BAILIE has a .923 save% so not exactly stinking -but PATTERSON is coming on strong with "WALL" games and highway robbery saves --his save % is now up to
.920 (just 8GP) and last year he was .929 save% in a limited role of just 6GP -but it could be his time now to take the team on his shoulders -at the very least he should be splitting the workload with Bailie ..Against PATTERSON is that he is a '94 and somehow was bypassed last draft ...BUT I had wanted us to draft him -certainly over WHITNEY who--once again this year has failed to live up to his hype with only an .897 save % for Victoriaville in 17gP ( .896 last season in 36GP)--the kid is big but so far has not proven he can stop pucks...

In any case I LIKE PATTERSON and would be happy if we drafted him..

ANOTHER candidate I saw last night on t.v. is EAMON MCADAM --6'2 175 --(SEP 24,'94) -the goalie who backstopped TEAM USA to the WORLD JR. A CHallenge GOLD
--he let in 3 goals last night --but you could not fault him on 2 of them--one was a redirection of a point shot and another was a cross ie pass through the crease for a tap in goal -the puck moves faster than a goalie can get accross --and another was due to a Canada West D-man failing to check his man in the crease ...I can't see blaming him for any of those goals allowed --he was not beaten on a straight shot--he made several stops off break-aways and power rushes to the net and was good I thought on being square to shooters,angles,and net coverage. He;s got good technique..HE will probably be among the top 4 goalies taken and I think the top goalie from the USHL (he plays for the Waterloo Blackhawks and has a .960 save % this year--albeit only limited games so far (5GP)...but off my viewoing of him last night he bears watching the est of this season ...



IGOR USTINSKY looked good in beating the OHL in his one game so far for tEam Russia in the Sub-way Super Series--BUT he is only 5'10 and is a june '94 so I think that will rule him out as a first and probably a 2nd rounder too..

So I think we are looking at SPENCER MARTIN,JAKE PATTERSON and possibly EAMON MCADAM in the NA goalie cream of the crop ---as to eurogoalies I do not know
how Central Scouting will rank them-but it seems that it could be a bumper crop from goalie factory Finland (VILLE HUSSO ,KEVIN LANKINEN,JANNE JUVONEN,ATTE TOLVANEN) ---whether any are first rounder material I do not know -but it looks like a good crop from that country this year...toobad we do not have 2nd and 3rd rounders..

BEsides the smallish IGOR USTINSKY --RUSSIA has BIG 6'5 220 ANDREI FILONENKO --last year he had a .942 save% in 29 GP in the MHL as a 16 year old --this year as a 17 year old he is .911 for CSKA in MHL play (10GP) ...wonder where central Scouting will rank him? IF he gets their World U-18 net assignement and shines he could be a late season riser -but we'll see...


I suspect SPENCER MARTIN probably is the first goalie taken and probably off the board before we'd pick anyway (ASSUMING there is a season-if not --THEN like 2005 after the lock-out season-- the draft goes to a random all in lfor round one --like the Crosby draft was -IF THAT is the case and we get LUCKY with a top ten pick--we probably do not take a goalie despite he intriguing talent in net this crop)... BUT -if that is not the case, then I'd be very happy if we grabbed PATTERSON or perhaps a top eurogoalie or maybe MCADAM if he continues to progress and impress the rest of this season if we draft mid to late first round..

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Old
11-12-2012, 05:41 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
It's rare to find a Kane in the middle of the order.

You don't take another small under sized winger this year, we already have enough.
Which is why you pay your scouts. If they say this guy is the best overall talent available, you take him. It is that simple.

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11-13-2012, 09:10 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Which is why you pay your scouts. If they say this guy is the best overall talent available, you take him. It is that simple.
No, you don't. Because in a draft like this, the talent between players is marginal. When it's marginal talent difference, you take a need over something redundant.

I see why we took TT, as he was clearly better than anyone else around him. But in this next draft, there won't be as much of a talent gap.

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11-14-2012, 12:48 AM
  #39
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you never know. You take what you think is the BPA and will have the most success. You don't draft by needs - especially when those guys won't be in the NHL in the year being drafted like it is in the NFL or NBA

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11-14-2012, 03:42 AM
  #40
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In 2006...the Flyers with #23 overall...middle/late 1st round..."Hey, we have enough smallish playmakers, lets take the big center Patrik Berglund even though we have Claude Giroux rated slightly better."


Last edited by RomersWorld: 11-14-2012 at 03:47 AM.
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11-14-2012, 08:34 AM
  #41
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Right now my current flavor is Darnell Nurse LD. Hes huge at 6'5" and mobility is said not to be an issue. Currently has 53 pim T2 in the OHL.

Current projections have him in the 20-30 range depending on whos making the list. Probably closer to 25-30 but Im sure will be much higher by draft day and I think would be a tremendous value pick below 15. Whos knows what the draft order will be this year but thats based on the Hawks position being the same as last year.

Even with all the dmen drafted last year, I still project it as a strength this year and many have decent size with mobility. Only problem is most are LD where the Hawks drafted Dillion Fournier and Travis Brown last year.

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11-14-2012, 09:09 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
In 2006...the Flyers with #23 overall...middle/late 1st round..."Hey, we have enough smallish playmakers, lets take the big center Patrik Berglund even though we have Claude Giroux rated slightly better."
Ya, it's too bad we can't pick in hindsight.

It works the opposite way too, I'm sure Columbus thought Derick Brassard was the BPA when they picked him, but if they went with a need, they would have Bernier right now.

Your argument is weak.


Last edited by Hawkaholic: 11-14-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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11-15-2012, 12:44 AM
  #43
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but the Flyers did take what they thought would be the BPA and they hit the home run

Columbus has bad scouts, where's the news?

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11-15-2012, 09:07 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
but the Flyers did take what they thought would be the BPA and they hit the home run

Columbus has bad scouts, where's the news?
A lot of teams take the BPA and it turns out not to be even close to the BPA.

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11-15-2012, 11:07 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
No, you don't. Because in a draft like this, the talent between players is marginal. When it's marginal talent difference, you take a need over something redundant.

I see why we took TT, as he was clearly better than anyone else around him. But in this next draft, there won't be as much of a talent gap.
It isn't marginal. It's all up to a particular teams scouts who's a marginal talent and who's a future NHL mainstay.

If a 5'5" kid that weighs 150 lbs with amazing hands and vision is considered the best player on the board when we pick, you take him. No questions asked. You don't pass on the chance to take the next St. Louis - who won't be ready for 3-5 years - because you need a Bobby Holik today.

You just don't know what your teams needs will be 3-5 years from now. Having a glut of young promising top 6 forwards will never hurt you; they can always be flipped for pieces that strengthen your club for a cup run.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:11 PM
  #46
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We'll jsut agree to disagree.

Lot's of teams have picked a need in previous drafts and it has worked out great, and vice versa. IMO, in a deep draft like this one, when there isn't much talent seperating the players where we will be picking, you pick a guy that is needed in 2-3 years. Most of the guys picked in the 1st round should be NHL ready in a couple to a few years.

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11-15-2012, 12:38 PM
  #47
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Welp so much for being ranked 25-30. ISS has just slotted Darnell Nurse at 9.

Also Spencer Martin #2 goalie.


Last edited by ChiGuySez: 11-15-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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11-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
A lot of teams take the BPA and it turns out not to be even close to the BPA.
they know this now. I'm sure that 5 teams will regret it to not have taken Forsberg OR Teuvo in the Top9

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11-15-2012, 02:09 PM
  #49
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they know this now. I'm sure that 5 teams will regret it to not have taken Forsberg OR Teuvo in the Top9
...and we may regret taking Teuvo when we could of had a guy like ...say Vasilevsky or Subban. (if they pan out and TT doesn't)

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11-16-2012, 05:45 AM
  #50
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that is right, but after all, right now Teuvo has the highest upside and best chance to not be a bust

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