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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:40 PM
  #976
HatTrick Swayze
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I never thought the league would be dumb enough or short sighted enough to lose another year.

Guess you learn something new every day. Still holding out hope but it ain't easy.

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11-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #977
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Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype

NHL owners say NHLPA leadership isn't interested in making a deal. Wrong. The NHLPA is uninterested in making the deal owners want.

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11-15-2012, 08:46 PM
  #978
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PR wise, the NHL is going to get blasted. Not saying they care, but they will get blasted.

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11-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
PR wise, the NHL is going to get blasted. Not saying they care, but they will get blasted.
This will be an eye drop in an ocean compared to when they call the season (& due to their level of spite I don't think that move is as far off as some are speculating).

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11-15-2012, 09:04 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
PR wise, the NHL is going to get blasted. Not saying they care, but they will get blasted.
At this point, I'm fairly certain that the NHL doesn't care about PR (or both PRs, since those are my initials ).

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11-15-2012, 09:08 PM
  #981
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heres the only thing i care about. this is likely to be the only season we can have Richards, Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, MDZ, Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, and Lundqvist all on the same team. unless somehow the contracts all get extended a year, but the way i understand it, this 1 year disappears, no payment, but you lose the year on their contract. That ****ing sucks for us because this was a legitimate chance to win the cup. Dare I say, the Rangers were poised to rampage through the east. Every single team of consequence around us got significantly weaker, and the Rangers got a **** ton better.

This would be a devastating loss to this franchise. we NEED hockey this season. I want a ****ing cup god damn it.
Predicting a Cup for us already? I'd be happy just to hear Torts say next question.

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OK, but in 2005 the season was cancelled before the PA would even discuss the idea of a cap, so I don't see it as comparable.
This here is the sole reason, I still have hope for some hockey this year. There should be no reason for not making a deal come deadline. Unfortunately the last minute in this sport always seems to be halfway through the season.

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11-15-2012, 09:21 PM
  #982
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2 weeks? Makes sense.

It fits perfectly within the schedule. Kind of brings everyone closer to the point where everyone needs to show their cards. It was always coming down to a deadline if a deal was to be had. Two weeks gives all sides a chance to think about what they really want. The pressure will grow on everyone.

After initiating a couple of proposals the owners said enough is enough. I've read a number of reports over the past couple of weeks (here and elsewhere) about how the players were improving their position by sitting and waiting. Know what? They were. The message from the owners is that we're tired of taking the initiative, now it's your turn. If the players want to end the lockout perhaps it's time for them to give the owners their best offer (a take it or leave it). If they already have then I suspect the season is over.

The message of the 2 week break is simple, the puck is in your goal.

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11-15-2012, 10:17 PM
  #983
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steve fehr just dumped on the nhl... lol.

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11-15-2012, 10:22 PM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
PR wise, the NHL is going to get blasted. Not saying they care, but they will get blasted.
PR wise it doesn't really matter at this point for either side. They both look bad already. Can't do much worse other than cancel the season which almost seems like a formality no

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11-15-2012, 10:25 PM
  #985
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I'm of the opinion that if they can't get something going by Dec 1st, there really is no point to continue this nonsense.

Just cancel the season and get it over with. Hopefully it will mean seppuku to the leadership of both the NHL and NHLPA.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:45 PM
  #986
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I'll tell you right now, whatever deal is done,... it better work but good. Cause there is no way in hell this league will survive another lockout after this one.

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11-15-2012, 11:22 PM
  #987
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the players better come as close to winning this one as possible--even if it takes two seasons. otherwise the owners won't think twice about locking them out when this cba expires.

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:03 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the players better come as close to winning this one as possible--even if it takes two seasons. otherwise the owners won't think twice about locking them out when this cba expires.
You really think the PA could afford to go two seasons?!?

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11-16-2012, 02:02 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
You really think the PA could afford to go two seasons?!?
nope; i agree with you fully. i really don't think that the owners or players would choose to let it go that far, but if they lose out they're going to lose heavily a second season anyway.

if this lockout works out in the owner's favor, then it will work every time and the commissioner will go in knowing that.

we all know going into this bettman was thinking to himself, "if they say no to my offer, i won't let them play until they do."

and let's face it, it's an owner's market. they may lose some overhead, but the players lose EVERYTHING.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:16 AM
  #990
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NHLPA has refused the 2 week break.

Steve Fehr: " We belive that is is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't. So we are ready to meet "

Again, not sure who could be on the NHLs side when it comes to which side actually wants a deal done.

Over the few days:
-NHL wants 2 week vacation in talks and refuses mediator.
-NHLPA refuses 2 week vacation and wants talks to continue in addition wants mediator.

Don't worry Gary, the way your running these talks you'll have a nice long vacation coming up when the whole season in canceled.

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11-16-2012, 03:16 AM
  #991
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The boo's that come from the crowd when Bettman presents the cup (whenever that may be) should be hilarious. Just **** can the season now.. I hear Roy Orbison's "It's Over" playing. Not to be a pessimist, but it is too far gone at this point, so just pull the plug and we will see what happens next year. My heart really can't take much more of this

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11-16-2012, 04:51 AM
  #992
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This was discussed in the podcast. 3 must haves for each side. Put them on the table. Work from there. Ownership won't get the deal they want and neither will the players.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8636577

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11-16-2012, 06:03 AM
  #993
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Pat Leonard ‏@NYDNRangers

Stop wasting our time, @NHL and @NHLPA. Just stop




Scott Cullen ‏@tsnscottcullen

I'm fascinated by NHL assertion that they have moved in the players' direction -- I was unaware of any player gains in CBA proposals.

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11-16-2012, 06:27 AM
  #994
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NHL proposed $211M in the make whole. The union source told the NY Times that the make whole was off by about $2M-$3M per team and calling it within spitting difference. The NHLPA wants the make whole to be $590M. It would $60M-$90M more than the $211M. $270M-$300M.

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11-16-2012, 06:35 AM
  #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon1990 View Post
NHLPA has refused the 2 week break.

Steve Fehr: " We belive that is is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't. So we are ready to meet "

Again, not sure who could be on the NHLs side when it comes to which side actually wants a deal done.

Over the few days:
-NHL wants 2 week vacation in talks and refuses mediator.
-NHLPA refuses 2 week vacation and wants talks to continue in addition wants mediator.

Don't worry Gary, the way your running these talks you'll have a nice long vacation coming up when the whole season in canceled.

Doesn't matter if they meet if Fehr will just be sitting on his hands the entire time, which I would bet money on him doing.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:41 AM
  #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Pat Leonard ‏@NYDNRangers

Stop wasting our time, @NHL and @NHLPA. Just stop




Scott Cullen ‏@tsnscottcullen

I'm fascinated by NHL assertion that they have moved in the players' direction -- I was unaware of any player gains in CBA proposals.
I don't think it was ever about the players "gaining" anything in this CBA. Fact of the matter is that they've had it way too good for a long time now... The league isn't healthy. One of the reasons is the 57% - 43% they've been enjoying for a while. The league wants a fair 50/50... They've moved towards the players, significantly on rev sharing (something the league def needed to become more solvent). The various contract issues are to keep GMs in check. Do they need ALL of the contract concessions they're asking for? No. But they need something to stop the circumventing contracts.

The players are going to lose. No matter how you slice it. They have a lot to lose just to make it fair tho. I don't see the owners asking for very much that isn't fair.

If they just asked for one of the circumventing contract concessions (as opposed to 3 or whatever) I would completely agree with the NHL.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:47 AM
  #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Pat Leonard ‏@NYDNRangers

Stop wasting our time, @NHL and @NHLPA. Just stop




Scott Cullen ‏@tsnscottcullen

I'm fascinated by NHL assertion that they have moved in the players' direction -- I was unaware of any player gains in CBA proposals.
There were never going to be any player gains. If the PA thought there would be, they're delusional. Winning this negotiation for them comes down to giving up as little as possible.


Last edited by Bleed Ranger Blue: 11-16-2012 at 08:52 AM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 09:16 AM
  #998
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You really think the PA could afford to go two seasons?!?
Whether they can or cannot is irrelevant. They ARE willing to do whatever Fehr says. Once this season goes, Fehr does not make another deal until the owners start to feel doubled pain of not having sold a single season ticket.

I think that the amount of financial pain that a $200 million albatross that is not making a single penny is being greatly understated. NO billionaire in the world is goingto sign up for that. And think of a place like Buffalo and Tampa. Think of the money spent with NOTHING coming back.

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11-16-2012, 09:22 AM
  #999
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Whether they can or cannot is irrelevant. They ARE willing to do whatever Fehr says. Once this season goes, Fehr does not make another deal until the owners start to feel doubled pain of not having sold a single season ticket.

I think that the amount of financial pain that a $200 million albatross that is not making a single penny is being greatly understated. NO billionaire in the world is goingto sign up for that. And think of a place like Buffalo and Tampa. Think of the money spent with NOTHING coming back.
This is laughable.

They've been listening to Fehr for 2 months, you think it'll last 2 years?! You think the 90% of the PA that cant get a job overseas is going to go that long without an NHL paycheck? Again, laughable.

Several of the owners operate at a loss - these guys are actually saving money by having no hockey played.

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11-16-2012, 09:27 AM
  #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon1990 View Post
NHLPA has refused the 2 week break.

Steve Fehr: " We belive that is is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't. So we are ready to meet "

Again, not sure who could be on the NHLs side when it comes to which side actually wants a deal done.

Over the few days:
-NHL wants 2 week vacation in talks and refuses mediator.
-NHLPA refuses 2 week vacation and wants talks to continue in addition wants mediator.

Don't worry Gary, the way your running these talks you'll have a nice long vacation coming up when the whole season in canceled.
So Fehr refuses the two week break, but has also refused to counter the last NHL proposal? Is this was really a one sided affair wouldn't the NHLPA be trying to jump start talks with some new or refreshed ideas. They are as much or more to blame at this point.

The old PR playbook has failed miserably for the NHLPA
I really think that the explosion of social media and sites like HF boards have allowed the average fan to see right through the nonsense. we don't need to wait for Fehrs presser and try to decipher it because we've got Dreger and LeBrun telling us whats going on instantly.

This has hurt players more the owners. It was assumed Bettman was an a-- going into this. Support for the players has dwindled as more and more information has come out and rightly so IMO.

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