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Murray Underrated....

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:36 AM
  #101
Haatley
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Murray not under rated. rielly just over rated but lots. very over rated. murray by far best dman from the draft and reinhart still number 2

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11-16-2012, 10:07 AM
  #102
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Defensive play (by defensemen) is underrated in Toronto.


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11-16-2012, 10:14 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Murray not under rated. rielly just over rated but lots. very over rated. murray by far best dman from the draft and reinhart still number 2
of course.

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11-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanityplease View Post
Defensive play (by defensemen) is underrated in Toronto.

We haven't had defensive play from defensemen, in a few years.

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11-16-2012, 11:12 AM
  #105
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Arguing over a 5th pick vs a 2nd pick. If Morgan Rielly played the entire season last year, who knows, he might have went 4th overall, or end up being the 2nd defencemen being drafted. I don't think he's overrated at all, a lot of scouts believe that, Ryan Murray might not be the 2nd best player out of the draft but the safest player. In this draft, some scouts believe there are like 3 other defencemens that have the potential to be much better then Murray. We'll see. I thought Rielly looked awesome, as the Dub's defence all looked equally as good, but Rielly and Dumba was able to take pucks end to end. Rielly is also awesome defensively. The Duncan Keith Comparisons are almost bang on.

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11-16-2012, 01:04 PM
  #106
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You had me until you said Rielly is awesome defensively.

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11-16-2012, 04:03 PM
  #107
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I'm just going to state my mind on the whole Murray Rielly argument.

First off, in order to understand what makes Murray so good defensively you have to see the game at a different level. I understand Rielly takes away passing lanes, but there's more to the defensive side of the game.

Murray does these things SO much better than Rielly: Reads the play defensively (insanely high IQ), never loses a man in coverage, and UNBELIEVABLE POISE(What I mean by this is when you watch murray, watch him under-pressure with the puck, 95% of the time he makes the best possible play. Rielly is a ****ing good prospect, believe me. The way he moves the puck, skates with the puck is something Leaf fans should be thrilled about. But just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean it's a slight against your player.

In my honest opinion, Murray is the best D prospect. Great passing, fluid skater, and an amazing defensive game. I'd love if he stayed with the Silvertips this whole season so he could be the go to offensive guy and take that aspect of his game to a whole new level.

As for Rielly, possibly one of the more dynamic D prospects I've seen in a while. It's a shame he wasn't on his game yesterday because he's such a treat to watch. Yes, I admit he's good at reading the play, put his defensive game isn't there YET. But that's ok, not all guys have to be two way guys. What Rielly brings can't be taught and Leaf fans should be thrilled about having him. When was the last time other fan bases gave so much props to Rielly?

Overall though, Murray isn't underrated. It's just he does the little things that make a team effective.

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11-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
This is the comparison I've always leaned towards. JayBo is a better passer however and Murray has a better shot
Id say more willing to shoot rather than better. Itd be interesting to see if he can add some nastiness aling the way somewhere.

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11-16-2012, 08:49 PM
  #109
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Murray was clearly better than Rielly and Reinhart in both the Subway Series and the Canadian/Russia challenge. But still all anyone wants to talk about is Morgan Rielly and Ryan Murphy because they provide the "electricity" but Murray is simply better and more effective.

Not to say that Rielly isn't great as well...he is. However at this point he isn't as good as Murray and he gets overrated because he is an offensive defenseman who is a great skater. He reminds me of Brian Campbell a bit with his electric skating, great passing, good offensive hockey sense, mediocre defense and awful shot.

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11-16-2012, 09:10 PM
  #110
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Great player without a doubt the best defenceman in the 2012 draft at this point, Reinhart or Reilly may close the gap alittle.

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11-17-2012, 12:04 AM
  #111
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He just wreaks of Chris Phillips to me. Rielly is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NHL_Entry_Draft

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11-17-2012, 12:12 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas View Post
He just wreaks of Chris Phillips to me. Rielly is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NHL_Entry_Draft
Rielly may end up better, but right now Murray is the top dog.

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11-17-2012, 12:23 AM
  #113
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Not that I'm saying this has anything to do with my view on either player being better than the other, you can go back to the third page to where I express my view on each; but I feel like these 'you have to see a game at a different level' or 'only a great hockey mind would see why Murray is clearly better' type of comments are a bit overstated on this thread. It doesn't take a great hockey mind to understand that he is a good and safe player, but I am a firm believer that he wasn't picked as high as he was because there was some game-breaking, deep untapped aspect of his game that will make him a star at the NHL level. I think the point of picking him so high is that Columbus knows that they are going to get a high quality serviceable defender for a decade. He is all but a sure thing, the other players not so much.

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11-17-2012, 12:28 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas View Post
He just wreaks of Chris Phillips to me. Rielly is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NHL_Entry_Draft
I actually see it more like the 1995 NHL Draft. I see a lot of Bryan Berard in Rielly and a lot of Wade Redden in Murray.

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:52 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Murray not under rated. rielly just over rated but lots. very over rated. murray by far best dman from the draft and reinhart still number 2
Something tells me someone has never seen them play and has just looked at how the 2012 draft came out Murray is not "by far" the best dman of the draft. The talent gap between blue chip prospects and the other prospects were very slim in that draft, but you wouldn't understand. From your point of view players who were drafted higher are better.

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11-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #116
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Apparently he just got a shoulder injury, any word on what the status is on that?

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11-17-2012, 04:39 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Tbh i think he plays like Jay Bouwmeester. All around solid and potential to be top pairing.
I can agree with this. I think he'll show a bit more on ice passion, but for the most part very similar in style and demeanour. And that's where I tend to lean towards Reilly as the better prospect. JBo came in and was successful early on, leading everyone to think he'd have continued development, but really there wasn't much room for his game to grow. He was already an elite skater and good decision maker, but he was never going to develop a nastiness or physical side to his game, nor was his shot or the ability to get it away. I see the same pattern for Murray IMO. In the end you get a helluva player, but is he a true number 1/first pairing guy? I'm not so sure.

Reilly on the other hand, I see his game growing because he is willing to take risks jumping up in the play. There may be some hard lessons along the way, but eventually he will learn a proper sense of timing - much like EK in Ottawa. At the end of the day it comes down to preference, but I prefer the more dynamic player in Reilly.

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11-18-2012, 04:43 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Apparently he just got a shoulder injury, any word on what the status is on that?
Separated shoulder, will know more on monday how long he'll be out.

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11-18-2012, 04:59 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
I actually see it more like the 1995 NHL Draft. I see a lot of Bryan Berard in Rielly and a lot of Wade Redden in Murray.
Redden averaged around 40 points for 7 or 8 seasons straight. I don't think Murray has that much offensive potential.

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11-18-2012, 08:55 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Murray not under rated. rielly just over rated but lots. very over rated. murray by far best dman from the draft and reinhart still number 2
really? Murray is a very good prospect but calling him by far the best is ridiculos cosidering that he doesn't have as good of a skillset as Reilly

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11-18-2012, 09:08 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Maybe under-appreciated a bit. I think Columbus will be very happy with Murray. He is the type of player who can very quietly be your best player.
I would agree with this and am pretty confident that Murray will have a great 15 plus year career as a top pairing Dman that excels in all situations and you can build a team around.

Reilly will be the better fantasy guy and has a shot at being nearly as good overall but is also less likely to reach it in that media circus that is Toronto.

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11-18-2012, 09:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I see people suggesting Morgan Reilly is better and/or will be better.....I just don't see it, Murray could step into the NHL right now and hold his own, people seem to have a cap on Murray's upside which I honestly think is dumb, anytime you have a defensemen with his IQ you have a chance to be special, that's not to say Reilly sucks but people overrate style and flash to much

I don't see Reinhart on that level either, calm and cool is more effective than flash and dash.....
Erik Karlson is all flash and dash. How'd that work out?

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11-18-2012, 09:58 PM
  #123
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Erik Karlson is all flash and dash. How'd that work out?
I'll call your Karlsson, and raise you a Lidstrom. Karlsson is not the norm, and even so, we're still only looking at one amazing season from him so far. That being said, that one season is still a hell of a lot more than we've seen from Rielly so far, so any comparison between the two is premature.

Occupy is just saying that Rielly's flashy game is leading to him being overhyped a bit compared to other defensemen in his draft class who seem just as good, just less flashy. That flash doesn't make Rielly better, it just makes him easier to notice.

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11-19-2012, 08:50 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Murray was clearly better than Rielly and Reinhart in both the Subway Series and the Canadian/Russia challenge. But still all anyone wants to talk about is Morgan Rielly and Ryan Murphy because they provide the "electricity" but Murray is simply better and more effective.

Not to say that Rielly isn't great as well...he is. However at this point he isn't as good as Murray and he gets overrated because he is an offensive defenseman who is a great skater. He reminds me of Brian Campbell a bit with his electric skating, great passing, good offensive hockey sense, mediocre defense and awful shot.
He was better than Murray in the first game. All Murray did was do the soft chip off the glass and out repeatedly. He didnt do anything on the offensive side and turned the puck over a couple times. Even on TSN radio Bob McKenzie said Rielly looked like the best player on the ice in the first game.

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Old
11-19-2012, 08:58 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I'll call your Karlsson, and raise you a Lidstrom. Karlsson is not the norm, and even so, we're still only looking at one amazing season from him so far. That being said, that one season is still a hell of a lot more than we've seen from Rielly so far, so any comparison between the two is premature.

Occupy is just saying that Rielly's flashy game is leading to him being overhyped a bit compared to other defensemen in his draft class who seem just as good, just less flashy. That flash doesn't make Rielly better, it just makes him easier to notice.
So Grigorenko, Forsberg, Radek Faksa, Girgensons, etc. are all as good as Yakupov? Yakupov is just flashier? Yakupov clearly has talent those others are missing. Same with Rielly. He is flashier, yes, but that's because of his talent level.

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