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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Mark Recchi's advice to players is to sign CBA now

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:12 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
Did the players write their own contracts them and forge Leipold's signature?

They were signed in good faith.

I will never understand individuals expecting players to just roll back their salaries, can you imagine that happening to you by your employer? I know I wouldn't really be keen on it happening.

Anyway, timelines are inconsequential as well. We're all well aware of the ramifications of delaying, but there certainly hasn't been a palpable sense of urgency despite how long it took the PA to get to the table.
I could say the same for the players. Did the owners write their own contracts and forge the player's signature?

All contracts were signed in good faith, and all contracts were signed with the knowledge of how that price line could and probably would be affected by new CBAs. The players made good use of that knowledge to squeeze more money out of the owners.

The league cannot operate as it currently is. In a normal business, cuts would have been made years back. Thanks to the CBA, and revenue growth caused by the decisions and sacrifices of the owners, the players got to keep their system until now.

Instead of looking at it as "I'm losing something now", they should be looking at it as "I got to have something I shouldn't have had for a few extra years".

Players also have the privilege of guaranteed contracts, regardless of play or production.

If I had a job where my salary had almost doubled over the past 7 years, and I was already being paid very well to start with, and the owner said "The business isn't doing so great, so we will have to cut costs. I can pay you your current rate for 2 more years, and then if the business hasn't made enough money by then, I will have to cut your salary by anywhere from 0-12%, or I have to start cutting jobs". You better believe I would take the pay-cut.

The league has continuously made offers while the PA has just sat there trying to win the media war. There is a sense of urgency from the league, but not the players, and that is totally backwards from the way it should be.

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11-15-2012, 11:49 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I could say the same for the players. Did the owners write their own contracts and forge the player's signature?

All contracts were signed in good faith, and all contracts were signed with the knowledge of how that price line could and probably would be affected by new CBAs. The players made good use of that knowledge to squeeze more money out of the owners.

The league cannot operate as it currently is. In a normal business, cuts would have been made years back. Thanks to the CBA, and revenue growth caused by the decisions and sacrifices of the owners, the players got to keep their system until now.

Instead of looking at it as "I'm losing something now", they should be looking at it as "I got to have something I shouldn't have had for a few extra years".

Players also have the privilege of guaranteed contracts, regardless of play or production.

If I had a job where my salary had almost doubled over the past 7 years, and I was already being paid very well to start with, and the owner said "The business isn't doing so great, so we will have to cut costs. I can pay you your current rate for 2 more years, and then if the business hasn't made enough money by then, I will have to cut your salary by anywhere from 0-12%, or I have to start cutting jobs". You better believe I would take the pay-cut.

The league has continuously made offers while the PA has just sat there trying to win the media war. There is a sense of urgency from the league, but not the players, and that is totally backwards from the way it should be.
God I wish I didn't bring up the job comparison, it's entirely faulty either way you want to argue it.

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11-15-2012, 11:53 PM
  #378
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so if your employer came to you and said. Can you take a 24 percent reduction now and over the next 7 years get 50 percent increase you would say no? or how bout now... Take a 12 percent reduction to take an expected 30 percent raise you would say no? I'd jump at that chance
What if your career was only 3 years long on average? Would you be willing to give up 33% of your lifetime earnings to keep 7% over 2 years?

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11-16-2012, 12:22 AM
  #379
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Recchi is retired and sure made his coin now hes got some shares in owning a club hes shooting his mouth off what an *******

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11-16-2012, 12:31 AM
  #380
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Recchi is retired and sure made his coin now hes got some shares in owning a club hes shooting his mouth off what an *******
I think that the opinions of people who have been through a similar situation are valuable, which is why I listen to folks like Nick Kypreos. I may not agree with their assessments, but I respect the fact that they're much closer to the situation in terms of empathy than even the most hardcore NHL fan could hope to be.

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11-16-2012, 12:33 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I think that the opinions of people who have been through a similar situation are valuable, which is why I listen to folks like Nick Kypreos. I may not agree with their assessments, but I respect the fact that they're much closer to the situation in terms of empathy than even the most hardcore NHL fan could hope to be.
You know there's a lot of times I don't like Nick Kypreos (like when he's training for the NY Marathon), but I have absolutely loved his input on the lockout, it's his butter zone.

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11-16-2012, 01:00 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
What if your career was only 3 years long on average? Would you be willing to give up 33% of your lifetime earnings to keep 7% over 2 years?
Hockey players have careers longer than 3 years, and not sure where you are getting these percentages from.

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11-16-2012, 01:07 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Hockey players have careers longer than 3 years, and not sure where you are getting these percentages from.
There's certainly a higher degree of risk of a career being cut short in playing hockey than in other careers, so a long term gain scenario should be considered more carefully. I think that's the point he was trying to make.

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11-16-2012, 01:09 AM
  #384
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There's certainly a higher degree of risk of a career being cut short in playing hockey than in other careers, I think that's the point he was trying to make.
It's also not a homogeneous group. There is a big chunk of players that are guaranteed to have 10+ year careers if they stay healthy. There is also a lot of marginal players that are quite replaceable and have much shorter NHL careers.

The interests of those groups partially overlap but aren't the same.

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11-16-2012, 01:15 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It's also not a homogeneous group. There is a big chunk of players that are guaranteed to have 10+ year careers if they stay healthy. There is also a lot of marginal players that are quite replaceable and have much shorter NHL careers.

The interests of those groups partially overlap but aren't the same.
Agreed, although from a percentage of the PA perspective I'm not sure how "big" that chunk is.

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11-16-2012, 01:29 AM
  #386
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Agreed, although from a percentage of the PA perspective I'm not sure how "big" that chunk is.
At any given time, the median career length should be over 10 years. But, it is very close to big dropoff at that point. If you went to the lowest 35-40% of players, you would come in with an average much less than 5 years, much, much less.

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11-16-2012, 02:45 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Kovalchuk has already lost a little more two million by approximation and stands to lose eleven should this drag on for the season. That is several times the loss he would incur under even the owner's most draconian offer.
I thought Kovy is making nice money in the KHL?

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11-16-2012, 03:40 AM
  #388
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Recchi lost a year of paychecks, the players are so dumb they don't realize even if they give a little bit a while ago, they would have saved several game checks...instead, willing to lose a half a seasons worth over a small percentage? idiotic, plain and simple

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11-16-2012, 06:55 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
What if your career was only 3 years long on average? Would you be willing to give up 33% of your lifetime earnings to keep 7% over 2 years?
Last lockout 24% of players never played another NHL game. A lot of those were nameless grunts, but there were also a sinificant % of long time vets at the end of their careers. These are the players you never hear from. I'm guessing a lot of them were secretly happy about Recci's comments.

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11-16-2012, 07:10 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Recchi lost a year of paychecks, the players are so dumb they don't realize even if they give a little bit a while ago, they would have saved several game checks...instead, willing to lose a half a seasons worth over a small percentage? idiotic, plain and simple
It's been about principle the entire time. From Fehr's interview last month with QMI Agency:

Quote:
QMI: What's your message to fans who have spent the past couple of days calling players "greedy" after the 50-50 offer from the league?

FEHR: It's pretty hard to treat seriously the notion that the athletes, who are the only people who anybody comes to watch, that they would be greedy in the face of a 24% reduction in their pay last time; billions of dollars went to the owners, not the players; seven years of record revenues that was more than anybody thought. The result of all that success is for the owners to say, 'OK, now we want to renegotiate all the contracts again and we want to lower them.' My message to the fans is: I don't think that characterization hits the facts very well. Hockey players are pretty down-to-earth people. That's why fans like and identify with them. They want to do the right thing. The right thing here happens to be proceeding in a way which is not merely, 'Oh the owners asked for billions of dollars I guess we have to give it to them because who are we? Hockey players.'
And all this talk about the players cutting off their nose to spite their face...what about the owners? They're insisting on a linked share of revenues, so by refusing to negotiate with a counterparty that appears to be in no rush to sign a deal, it only hurts their wallets too.


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11-16-2012, 09:32 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I think that the opinions of people who have been through a similar situation are valuable, which is why I listen to folks like Nick Kypreos. I may not agree with their assessments, but I respect the fact that they're much closer to the situation in terms of empathy than even the most hardcore NHL fan could hope to be.
Nick Kypreos is an extreme hardliner and not representative of all former players-see Lafleur, Recchi, .Geurin,Madano and numerous other who have advised the players to come to an agreement as soon as possible and who regret losing paycheques, and some of whom have complained that they were fed a bill of goods by the PA.

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11-16-2012, 09:35 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
It's been about principle the entire time. From Fehr's interview last month with QMI Agency:



And all this talk about the players cutting off their nose to spite their face...what about the owners? They're insisting on a linked share of revenues, so by refusing to negotiate with a counterparty that appears to be in no rush to sign a deal, it only hurts their wallets too.
what's the principal once you lose a quarter of a billion dollars? i sure hope a full season is worth almost 2 bill to them then

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11-16-2012, 09:58 AM
  #393
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His career benefited greatly from the first stoppage. He didn't fare as well ten years later for the second one. As I said earlier, some of the experiences may be affected by the career cycle when the stoppage happens.

One should ask Recchi how he felt about the first stoppage.
I'm sure Recchi being in his mid 20s to early 30s after the first lockout and in is late 30s after the last lockout had nothing to do with his pay over the course of each CBA.

All those 70, 80, 90 and 100 point seasons after the first lockout has nothing to do with the amount of money he made, it was all the lockout that gave him the money.

The fact that never reached 70 points again after the 2nd lockout has nothing to do with the amount of money he made, it was all the CBAs fault!!!

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11-16-2012, 10:16 AM
  #394
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Recchi is retired and sure made his coin now hes got some shares in owning a club hes shooting his mouth off what an *******
He's been thru this as a player, now he sees it as an owner.

How is that shooting your mouth off or being an *******?

Most of today's players weren't in the NHL during the last lockout. It seems to me that any advice from someone who has been there would be of some value i.e. "stay locked out, make zero dollars. Agree to a CBA and make money. Lots of money."

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11-16-2012, 10:36 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
what's the principal once you lose a quarter of a billion dollars? i sure hope a full season is worth almost 2 bill to them then
Like I said, I don't think this has as much to do with money as it has to do with trying to put a stop to the NHL's browbeating approach in labor relations.

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11-16-2012, 11:03 AM
  #396
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Like I said, I don't think this has as much to do with money as it has to do with trying to put a stop to the NHL's browbeating approach in labor relations.
The PA were anything but reasonable in their early days under Fehr, they nixed the proposed changes to the conferences, refused to negotiate until the eleventh hour and have been as obstructive as possible.

As long as the Fehr/Goodenow faction hold sway-after all Fehr was a strong influence on Goodenow and will be a strong influence on his brother if he is the next PA leader-this is the sort of labour negotiations the NHL will be stuck with.

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11-16-2012, 11:09 AM
  #397
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The PA were anything but reasonable in their early days under Fehr, they nixed the proposed changes to the conferences, refused to negotiate until the eleventh hour and have been as obstructive as possible.

As long as the Fehr/Goodenow faction hold sway-after all Fehr was a strong influence on Goodenow and will be a strong influence on his brother if he is the next PA leader-this is the sort of labour negotiations the NHL will be stuck with.
Yep, they've dug their heels deep into every issue, big or small, since Fehr has been leading the ship. They're having a Howard Beale moment; mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

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11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #398
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Yep, they've dug their heels deep into every issue, big or small, since Fehr has been leading the ship. They're having a Howard Beale moment; mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.
They sure are. What sweet revenge!

Meantime they are losing money with every passing day, some careers will fizzle out some will be shortened and the League itself, which has been such a bonanza for the players in the last few years will be weakened,for how long no one can say; this is the real gift they are giving to the players that are coming after them.
,
Yes Fehr sure is a hero for those players. Go Fehr!

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11-16-2012, 11:28 AM
  #399
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Or just someone no one cares about anymore trying to get some attention?
That's HFBoards for you people! *sarcastic applause*

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11-16-2012, 11:45 AM
  #400
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1) Players agreed to play under current CBA while negotiating new one
2) Current CBA, by all accounts, represented a total win for owners when negotiated and signed

How anyone can blame the players when there is no hockey is beyond me.

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