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Stephen Weiss Possibly to Become UFA?

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #51
Mystifo
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Doesn't that happen in every Toronto thread?
Yeah every player that is rumored on the move is destined for Toronto. To be fair we are right some times.

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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
there was a report at the trade deadline in 2011 that he would only agree to be a leaf kipper said it as did dreger
LINK: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/02/28/weiss_leafs/


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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
I dont think he will do it but if he does I really hope he comes home
If the above article I posted is correct then there is a slight chance if comes to his home. Be nice seeing how I feel like Getzlaf is resigning.

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11-14-2012, 12:58 PM
  #52
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Maybe Vancouver will use him for an injury call-up if the season starts.

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11-14-2012, 01:57 PM
  #53
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Does anybody else think Stephen Weiss looks like Shawn Michaels?

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11-14-2012, 02:01 PM
  #54
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I wouldn't be surprised if he does leave town. I doubt he'd get a contract longer than two years here anyways. With all the prospects coming up soon, His role on the team would drastically change, why wouldn't he look into a different franchise and get his payday.
Why would you doubt he gets a contract longer than two years? We're not going to go halfway with Weiss. Either we intend to keep him and pay him a very lucrative longterm deal(which I assume is the case), or we part ways with him and go in a different direction. Plus in a short term deal we'd have to pay him more per year.

Also, Weiss will still be a very good player for another several years. I doubt he loses that much ice time. It's the prospects who have to come in and prove they deserve the ice time over Weiss, not the other way around. Let's not get too optimistic about prospects yet.

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11-15-2012, 09:45 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Cage Helmet View Post
Does anybody else think Stephen Weiss looks like Shawn Michaels?
+1


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11-15-2012, 10:20 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Cage Helmet View Post
Does anybody else think Stephen Weiss looks like Shawn Michaels?


Come on Weiss strut to Toronto with that theme song.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:22 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Yeah every player that is rumored on the move is destined for Toronto. To be fair we are right some times.



LINK: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/02/28/weiss_leafs/




If the above article I posted is correct then there is a slight chance if comes to his home. Be nice seeing how I feel like Getzlaf is resigning.
A year ago and I am not sure so on kyper he's 50 - 50 for me. Regardless let's see what hapepns.

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11-15-2012, 10:29 PM
  #58
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If he wants to win a cup then he'd sign with the Rags. I think they'd still have the cap space to fit at least $4 M on there (I'll assume the cap doesn't drop to below $64 M though they have some notable RFAs).

Atm they're the most complete team in hockey so I'd say it's his best chance if he fits on. They have the goaltending and it's better than Boston or Detroit, they have no holes in defence unlike Philadelphia, they already have three star forwards with three great young ones, they aren't as reliable on injury-prone players like Pittsburgh, and they're relatively young for a team that good.

Of course I would expect him to sign with a different team for 5-6 M than sign with the Rags for 3-4 M so probably won't happen.

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11-16-2012, 01:07 AM
  #59
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If not the Panthers then probably Chicago, IMO. He'd be a good fit there and they are pretty desperate for a 2C. I could see them offering him around 5.

Could also see a deadline deal happening.

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11-16-2012, 01:14 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I have mixed feelings about how "up and coming" the Panthers really are.

Their positioning this year was due more to the generally terrible play by their division (all five teams finished with a neg goal diff), and the unsustainable amount of "bonus points" they got for OTLs last year. Statistically speaking, they had no business being in the playoffs last year, let alone being a third seed conference winner with a -24 goal differential.

They do have some very nice prospects, but I have them pegged as easily my biggest slide team in whatever NHL season happens next
I'm REALLY sorry the Leafs missed the playoffs again, I truly am.

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11-16-2012, 08:33 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by JP Mick View Post
I'm REALLY sorry the Leafs missed the playoffs again, I truly am.
Number one sign of someone in denial: when someone posts up intelligent conversation based in fact, and they only thing they can come up with is some childish retort.

Thanks for the vindication.

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11-16-2012, 09:26 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Mick View Post
I'm REALLY sorry the Leafs missed the playoffs again, I truly am.
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Number one sign of someone in denial: when someone posts up intelligent conversation based in fact, and they only thing they can come up with is some childish retort.

Thanks for the vindication.
Yea. Nice lack of logic.

Poster 1: Here are logical reasons why I don't think Florida will make the playoffs.

Poster 2: Toronto sux!

Poster 1: ... I never said they didn't... we're talking about Florida here...

Come on people. The fact that Toronto is a bad team has NO EFFECT on whether or not Florida is a good or bad team, or any other team for that matter.

So if a Toronto poster gives a good backed up argument for why he thinks another team isn't very good, pointing out that Toronto isn't good doesn't automatically mean your team is. It's completely irrelevant.

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:57 AM
  #63
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I expect a drop-off for Florida this season. But considering their prospect pool, they won't be held down for too long. If I were Tallon, I'd certainly re-sign Weiss.

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11-16-2012, 10:01 AM
  #64
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This makes me think its less likely he leaves. Florida will pay up to keep him on a 3-4 year deal I think.

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11-16-2012, 10:06 AM
  #65
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Why would Florida not make the playoffs next season? They will be a better team than last year.

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11-16-2012, 10:23 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Why would Florida not make the playoffs next season? They will be a better team than last year.
Well lets see.

- They lost Garrison. He was solidly their #2 D. Played lots of SH minutes, PP minutes, and ES minutes against top opposition
- Campbell/Weiss/Versteeg/Fleishmann all either had career years or essentially matched previous career years
- Theodore played significantly better than he has over the majority of the last 5-7 years
- Their division was terrible. Washington is looking better with Ribeiro as their 2nd line C, potentially improved goaltending via Holtby, and assumed rebound years back to their averages (or better) from Ovechkin/Backstrom/Green. All are key players, and two were injured for large portions of last season while Ovechkin just had a down year
-Florida made the playoffs with a fairly large negative goal differential, and it doesn't look like that goal differential is likely to improve. It's pretty rare to sneak into the playoffs with that type of stat

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11-16-2012, 10:58 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Why would Florida not make the playoffs next season? They will be a better team than last year.
Carolina added Jordan Staal and Alex Semin.
Washington found a 2C (Ribeiro) and has a healthy Backstrom and Green.
Tampa added a netminder (Lindback) and minute muncher (Carle).
Florida rode career years from Fleischmann, Versteeg, and Campbell to only 94 points (with a -24 goal differential, tied for the fewest goals for in the Eastern Conference, and 18 points from OTL), just barely winning the division by 2 points.

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11-16-2012, 11:06 AM
  #68
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Yes, I understand the division is a lot better now than it was but Florida is absolutely loaded with awesome prospects. After a missed season where they all get to develop and get a lot of ice time, they will be ready come into the league and make them a very deep team.

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11-16-2012, 11:11 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
(with a -24 goal differential, tied for the fewest goals for in the Eastern Conference, and 18 points from OTL), just barely winning the division by 2 points.
Yeah, they lost 4 games by a combined score of 24-0, highly unusual, that explains that.

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11-16-2012, 11:31 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Well lets see.

- They lost Garrison. He was solidly their #2 D. Played lots of SH minutes, PP minutes, and ES minutes against top opposition
- They gained Kuba who can slot in as their #2 D just fine. He averaged the same amount of ice time as Garrison last yr for Ottawa. They had similar point totals as well (though Garrison just had more goals).

- Campbell/Weiss/Versteeg/Fleishmann all either had career years or essentially matched previous career years
- Campbell just returned to form. Weiss did not have a career yr but kept producing at the same consistent pace he has for the last 6 seasons basically. Versteeg & Fleischmann had career yrs but they're still young, why cant they continue to produce at that level? And Versteeg had 1 pt more & 1 goal more than his previous high so its not like he made such huge gains. I cant see any of those guys actually dropping significantly from last season in terms of production.

- Theodore played significantly better than he has over the majority of the last 5-7 years
- Actually, he's been fairly consistent in the last 5 yrs (look up his record/stats). He just went to OT a lot more than in the past which is kinda a reflection of the team in front of him too. Remember, his numbers last season werent out of this world really...22-16-11 with a 2.46 GAA and .917 save percentage. He was mostly middle of the pack in terms of starters in the league

- Their division was terrible. Washington is looking better with Ribeiro as their 2nd line C, potentially improved goaltending via Holtby, and assumed rebound years back to their averages (or better) from Ovechkin/Backstrom/Green. All are key players, and two were injured for large portions of last season while Ovechkin just had a down year
- Yes the division as a whole wasnt very good. But teams improving on paper doesnt always translate on the ice. Washington always seemed to have the best team on paper but couldnt win in the playoffs. Keep in mind they lost Semin as well so that is lost offense so that should even out any benefit of having Riberio. Also while not the best overall d-man, they lost Wideman and his offense too.

-Florida made the playoffs with a fairly large negative goal differential, and it doesn't look like that goal differential is likely to improve. It's pretty rare to sneak into the playoffs with that type of stat
- Why wouldn't that goal differential would improve? They are going to add a top prospect in Jonathan Huberdeau to their lineup who should provide some additional offense. They also added Peter Mueller as well who should be a top 6 forward. Yes he had injury issues the last few yrs but this extended time off has to be helping him too in some ways. Also if Upshall, a former 20 goal scorer, can stay healthy, there's some additional offense as well.

Also factor in that all of that negative goal differential came from 4 blowout games (losses by more than 5 goals) on the road (@ Boston 8-0, @ Winnipeg 7-0, @ Philly 5-0, @ NY Rangers 5-1). Its always good to put statistics in perspective to what is actually happening on the ice.
I replied to your points in blue above. Seeing what other teams have done in the East, I dont see the Panthers as "easily the biggest slide team" at all. I mean NJ lost a 70+ pt forward in Parise, Philly lost a top 4 d-man (Carle) and already were lacking depth on defense thanks to injuries (Pronger, Mezaros) in front of an inconsistent goalie, and Boston lost its starting goalie who was a former Vezina winner. Any/all of those teams could just as easily slide as the Panthers...if we're just looking at it on paper.

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11-16-2012, 12:09 PM
  #71
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I replied to your points in blue above. Seeing what other teams have done in the East, I dont see the Panthers as "easily the biggest slide team" at all.
Neither do I. I think NJ/Ott are the most likely to take a huge slide. I just don't have Florida written in as a likely playoff team. More as a bubble team, I'd expect them to finish ~9th/10th.

As to your other points.
- Kuba is very inconsistent. Last year he was good, the year before? Ottawa fans wanted him run out of town. I would say that it's quite unlikely that he plays at a similar level as he did last year
- Versteeg/Fleishmann MIGHT continue to play at the same level. But that's the question anytime anybody has a career year. Sometimes they show that it was a longterm step-forward, other times they show that it was a flash in the pan.
- Statistically Theodore had the best season he's had since 2003-2004. He's never had a higher save % in that span, and he's tied it once, and that was in a 32 game sample size.
- Even if Carolina/Washington have only improved on paper and haven't "proven" anything yet, it's likely that it WILL come together for at least one of those teams, maybe both
- Yes, Florida does have a number of awesome prospects. Markstrom is probably another ~2 years away, Huberdeau I think will make an impact for the 2013-2014 season, though I'm not entirely sure he would do that this current season

Essentially there are just a lot of question marks, just like a lot of the middle of the pack teams. Which means hot/cold seasons from key players, key injuries, break-out seasons, etc will have a huge impact on deciding the fate of those teams vying for the last few spots.

I'm not saying they're guaranteed to miss the playoffs. Just that they're definitely a bubble team, and not in that top group of teams that you can almost guarantee will make it. I would definitely put Boston, NYR, Pittsburgh, Philly, Washington, and Carolina ahead of them, and then put Florida in a group of about 4-5 teams fighting for those last 2 spots, not to mention the potential for a big "surprise" season from any of the projected bottom couple of teams (see Ottawa/Florida last year as examples).

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11-16-2012, 01:31 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Yeah, they lost 4 games by a combined score of 24-0, highly unusual, that explains that.
Even if you pretend that every team doesn't get blown out a few times a year, and you take away those losses, it still puts them at even. Hardly a recipe for a guaranteed playoff berth.

And if you're assuming this season is done, then you also have to factor in expiring contracts along with the prospects. Weiss and Theodore could both leave after the 2012-2013 season.

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11-16-2012, 03:32 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Neither do I. I think NJ/Ott are the most likely to take a huge slide. I just don't have Florida written in as a likely playoff team. More as a bubble team, I'd expect them to finish ~9th/10th.

As to your other points.
- Kuba is very inconsistent. Last year he was good, the year before? Ottawa fans wanted him run out of town. I would say that it's quite unlikely that he plays at a similar level as he did last year
-Actually if you look at Kuba's stats since the lockout, the year before last in Ottawa was the anomaly not the norm. But really Kuba is a stopgap anyway until Gudbranson really can step up more. I could see by the end of the next season played that Gudbranson is the #2 d-man and he showed glimpses of that when Garrison was injured. Honestly Garrison is more of question mark to return to the same level as what he produced last season over Kuba since Garrison had a career yr and limited history.
- Versteeg/Fleishmann MIGHT continue to play at the same level. But that's the question anytime anybody has a career year. Sometimes they show that it was a longterm step-forward, other times they show that it was a flash in the pan.
-But their career yrs were barely over their normal averages. I mean Fleischmann put up 31 pts in 45 games the previous season so if you project that to a full season, its in the 50-60 pt range. The previous full season (with the Caps in a 2nd/3rd line role) he played he put up 51 pts which is only 10 pts less than what he put up last season in a 1st line role. Cant see him regressing from 60 pts much anyway. What would lead you to believe Flash, specifically, would regress (I dont care what other players do)? Versteeg also has consistently put up 20g seasons with several teams in the last 3-4 yrs. He beat his career high in pts & goals by ONE...thats not like he's super overachieving here. Why would you think him specifically would regress at all based on his history of putting up the same numbers?
- Statistically Theodore had the best season he's had since 2003-2004. He's never had a higher save % in that span, and he's tied it once, and that was in a 32 game sample size.
-Save percentage is the only thing he really had exceeded on in comparison to past yrs. And to me, some of that is associated again to the team in front of him to keeping the shots at a low quality. I dont know that he completely meets those same numbers again but its not like he was leading the league in any of his stats last yr. He was middle of the pack in most statistical categories and that is a fair expectation of him again. And keep in mind, the Panthers have one of the better backups in the league too in Clemmensen. He's proven he can step in and be a starter for periods when needed (like when Brodeur was down with an injury).
- Even if Carolina/Washington have only improved on paper and haven't "proven" anything yet, it's likely that it WILL come together for at least one of those teams, maybe both
- Again, thats on paper. Does everyone on Washington return to form? Can Ribiero make up for the loss of Semin? There's no guarantee that Holtby takes the reigns and leads them to the playoffs. Carolina has a ton of talent but they have had talent before and they still struggled. Can they put it all together with all that new talent and gel together quickly? Everyone expected the Panthers to not make the playoffs last yr because its not the norm for a big roster turnover to gel quickly.
- Yes, Florida does have a number of awesome prospects. Markstrom is probably another ~2 years away, Huberdeau I think will make an impact for the 2013-2014 season, though I'm not entirely sure he would do that this current season
- Markstrom is probably just 1 yr in the AHL (currently playing there) to being an NHLer. Maybe he's not the starter right away but he should be able to split starts with Clemmensen and not hurt the team at all. If Markstrom doesnt look ready, there's always the option to get a guy like Luongo. Huberdeau has gotten more development time than anyone really expected before turning pro so I expect he'll make at least an impact equivalent to what the Panthers got from Mikael Samuelsson. In other words, thats 14 goals and 31 pts...modest expectations I'd say and completely doable based on what past rookies have done when put in similar roles.

Essentially there are just a lot of question marks, just like a lot of the middle of the pack teams. Which means hot/cold seasons from key players, key injuries, break-out seasons, etc will have a huge impact on deciding the fate of those teams vying for the last few spots.

I'm not saying they're guaranteed to miss the playoffs. Just that they're definitely a bubble team, and not in that top group of teams that you can almost guarantee will make it. I would definitely put Boston, NYR, Pittsburgh, Philly, Washington, and Carolina ahead of them, and then put Florida in a group of about 4-5 teams fighting for those last 2 spots, not to mention the potential for a big "surprise" season from any of the projected bottom couple of teams (see Ottawa/Florida last year as examples).
I address each of your points above again.

I'm not expecting another Southeast division winner but I think they are a team that had 94 pts last season so they should be a team that is considered a playoff contender. I think all the teams in the East have plenty of question marks so how can anyone be considered sure things. I can give you examples from each of the teams you mentioned as guarantees to make the playoffs to show how they have question marks too. Just a few quick ones, Boston-does losing Thomas hurt or can Rask pick up the slack; Pittsburgh-does Crosby return to form and can he stay healthy; Philly-can they overcome their defensive depth and Bryz have a solid season; NYR-how does Nash integrate with their team, does it make up for the loss of Dubinksy+Anisimov beyond just pts; Washington-does Ovechkin, Backstrom & Green return to form, will Ribiero replace the offense lost from Semin; Carolina-can all the new guys mesh together quickly. All of those question marks are just as likely to affect those teams from making the playoffs as the Panthers.
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Even if you pretend that every team doesn't get blown out a few times a year, and you take away those losses, it still puts them at even. Hardly a recipe for a guaranteed playoff berth.

And if you're assuming this season is done, then you also have to factor in expiring contracts along with the prospects. Weiss and Theodore could both leave after the 2012-2013 season.
Honestly, the only stat that should matter is the number of pts. Goal differentials, OTL, etc doesnt really matter how you get into the playoffs really. So long as you have more than the normal 92 pts, thats what is a playoff contender in my view. The Panthers are coming off a 94 pt season and I see zero reason why they cant reproduce that again...I've given plenty of reason why too.

If we assume this season is done, lots of teams are going to look different too. Who's to say that Weiss really does leave? If the Panthers pay him fairly, then he most likely stays. If not, they have several center prospects that are near NHL-ready too. Drew Shore is currently leading the farm team in scoring for San Antonio, Bjugstad was rumored to be signed this past offseason but elected to finish out his college career at Minnesota so he'll be in the fold next yr too, and then Huberdeau was drafted as a center and may play there too. I think keeping Weiss would help all those prospects but if he's not willing to stay, there's a plethora of young guys ready to step in.

Theodore isnt the be-all-end-all of starting goalies so replacing him isnt impossible. At least 3 starters would also be free agents after 2012-13 too (Backstrom, Howard, Smith) who could just as easily be a stopgap to Markstrom. Or if they go a different direction, then they could trade for Luongo depending on what the cost would be.


Last edited by Coolburn: 11-16-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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11-16-2012, 03:53 PM
  #74
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Honestly, the only stat that should matter is the number of pts. Goal differentials, OTL, etc doesnt really matter how you get into the playoffs really. So long as you have more than the normal 92 pts, thats what is a playoff contender in my view. The Panthers are coming off a 94 pt season and I see zero reason why they cant reproduce that again...I've given plenty of reason why too.
In terms of reaching the playoffs, points are indeed the only stat that matters (until you hit tie-breakers). In terms of predicting which teams will be good in future games (ie, what's happening right now), previous years' point totals aren't a great indicator. That's where these other stats can become very useful.

And of course you see zero reason, you're a Panthers fan/homer. I saw zero reason why the Capitals couldn't reproduce their 1st place seasons of 2010 and 2011 in 2012, but that obviously didn't work out that way. I believe the Baltimore Orioles can reach the playoffs again next year, but if you ask a neutral observer they're not going to give us nearly as good odds. It took what was essentially a "perfect storm" for the Panthers to reach 94 points the first time. Virtually none of the Panthers key players suffered a long term injury or down season, and multiple set new career highs. When Scotti Upshall is the most significant injury a team suffers, most teams would consider that a pretty darn healthy season. The odds are against having another season where all the key players play at their peak level and avoid significant injuries.

The Panthers absolutely have a great prospect pool. But prospects are prospects. You can't assume they're all going to pan out at the NHL level, especially not in their first season in the league. Edmonton has had some awesome prospects for the past few years, yet they keep ending up picking #1 overall. The Panthers should eventually be a better team, but I don't buy it happening in this upcoming season.

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11-16-2012, 04:22 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I expect a drop-off for Florida this season. But considering their prospect pool, they won't be held down for too long. If I were Tallon, I'd certainly re-sign Weiss.
Nailed it. On the prospect pool and Weiss, (and probably about the season for the Panthers this year). I think this is much a do about nothing.

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