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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:29 AM
  #726
Whileee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.azfamily.com/news/New-out...179600461.html

New outlet mall opens to huge crowds in Glendale

The Tanger company built its newest outlet mall in Glendale, which happens to have the highest combined city/county/state sales tax of any large city in the country, at 10.3 percent. The new mall is projected to bring in about $2.5 million in sales tax to the cash-strapped City of Glendale each year.

So the CoG is going to collect $2.5M/yr and it didn't cost them $15M/yr to do so. That's how things are suppose to work... More money coming in than going out. Awesome.
They expect about 5 million customers per year, which is about 10-fold higher than the number of Coyotes fans. So, if Westgate plays it right, this should be a real boon for them.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:46 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by mzappa View Post
I'm going to go way-way far in advance, and pre-empt naming of thread LXIX with a Canadian/Bryan Adams theme in the honour of former-Councillor Clark...


Phoenix LXIX: Was the Thread of '69:

...Oh when Gary looks back,
That franchise seemed to last forever,
And if he just could sell it,
Yeah, the NHL wanted to stay there,
Darcy's cupcakes were the best of his life
I second that motion for Phoenix LXIX, and submit the following lyrics to Glendale-ize Bryan Adams' masterpiece:

I signed my first real lease thing
Glendale thought it was a sign
Delayed until the deal went dead
Was before Thread Number Sixty-nine

DJ and some guys from school
Had a plan and they tried real hard
Investors quit, Beasley got queasy
Shoulda known they’d never get far

Oh when I look back now
This saga seemed to last forever
And if they had the choice
Yeah, no owner wants to be there

Those were the best days of my life

Ain’t no use in complaining
When Goldwater’s Jobbing you
Matty’s plan was brain-dead simple
Just buy the parking with an I.O.U. Yeah!

Sign it on the dotted line
These two weeks won’t last forever
But nobody has the coin
The NHL says now or never

Those were the best days of my life
Oh yeah
It happened before Thread Sixty-nine
Oh!

Man, they were killing time
They were getting restless
Greg showed up just in time
I guess Glendale is screwed forever
Forever, no!

And now the council’s changing
Look at all the owners come and gone
Sometimes when Joyce Clark is sober
She thinks about it, wonders what went wrong

Sign it on the dotted line
These two weeks won’t last forever
But nobody has the coin
The NHL says now or never

Those were the best days of my life
Oh Yeah
Back before Thread Number Sixty-nine
Oh Yeah
Jamison is turning Sixty-nine


Last edited by CGG: 11-16-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 10:48 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I second that motion for Phoenix LXIX, and submit the following lyrics to Glendale-ize Bryan Adams' materpiece
****ing genius....

Screw Bryan Adams, you've created the real masterpiece.; you are the Taupin to his John.

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #729
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Thats some good work @CGG

You took that idea and made a parody song for the ages!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I second that motion for Phoenix LXIX, and submit the following lyrics to Glendale-ize Bryan Adams' masterpiece:

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:40 AM
  #730
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Got my vote...Phoenix LXIX: Was the Thread of '69

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:28 PM
  #731
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The Phoenix Coyotes: Things Get Messier In Glendale:
http://thehockeywriters.com/the-phoe...r-in-glendale/

I tried to sum up the situation in Glendale as best as I could.


Last edited by Slashers98: 11-16-2012 at 01:28 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
11-16-2012, 01:41 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
They expect about 5 million customers per year, which is about 10-fold higher than the number of Coyotes fans. So, if Westgate plays it right, this should be a real boon for them.
Just to do some quick math here based on numbers being published:

The Tanger Mall is expected to have 5,000,000 visitors generating $2,500,000 for the CoG.

The CoG is claiming that by not having the Coyotes playing, it is costing them $60,000 per game in lost revenue. If we multiply this out for 41 games we get: $2,460,000

So, if I am to understand this.....

The CoG is actually claiming that 500,000 hockey fans are going to generate the same amount of revenue for the city as 5,000,000 shoppers??? Sorry, not buying it. I can buy the Tanger Mall generating $2.5M, but if the Coyotes only get 1/10 of the Mall traffic, they are generating a lot less one would assume than $2.46M the CoG is claiming.

Someone correct me in the errors of my ways.

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:45 PM
  #733
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Awesome post CGG!

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:46 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Just to do some quick math here based on numbers being published:

The Tanger Mall is expected to have 5,000,000 visitors generating $2,500,000 for the CoG.

The CoG is claiming that by not having the Coyotes playing, it is costing them $60,000 per game in lost revenue. If we multiply this out for 41 games we get: $2,460,000

So, if I am to understand this.....

The CoG is actually claiming that 500,000 hockey fans are going to generate the same amount of revenue for the city as 5,000,000 shoppers??? Sorry, not buying it. I can buy the Tanger Mall generating $2.5M, but if the Coyotes only get 1/10 of the Mall traffic, they are generating a lot less one would assume than $2.46M the CoG is claiming.

Someone correct me in the errors of my ways.
Two questions :

1) Where did you learn your math ? If you went to Clarkonomics school you would know your numbers are wrong, very

2) Why are you pointing the obvious ? You are not to know that could turn out ugly for the Coyotes remaining in Arizona, you meanie

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Two questions :

1) Where did you learn your math ? If you went to Clarkonomics school you would know your numbers are wrong, very

2) Why are you pointing the obvious ? You are not to know that could turn out ugly for the Coyotes remaining in Arizona, you meanie
Sorry, my bad... I flunked Clarkonomics...

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #736
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http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...11612final.pdf

On Tuesday, Nov. 20, staff will present to the Glendale City Council a revised draft arena use agreement for the city-owned Jobing.com Arena during a City Council workshop session. The documents outline a tentative agreement between the city and Arizona Hockey Partners LLC, the prospective owner of the National Hockey League (NHL) Coyotes franchise with Greg Jamison as Manager.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122208.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122238.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...edExhibits.pdf

AMF

For the period beginning on the Closing Date and ending on June 30, 2013, $11,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2013 and ending on June 30, 2014, $14,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2014 and continuing each year until June 30, 2016, $15,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2016 and continuing each year until June 30, 2017, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2017 and continuing each year until June 30, 2022, $18,000,000 per year
Beginning on July 1, 2022 and continuing each year until June 30, 2023, $17,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2023 and continuing each year until June 30, 2027, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2027 and continuing each year until June 30, 2028, $14,000,000 per year.
Beginning on July 1, 2028 and continuing each year until the Termination Date, $13,000,000 per year.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-16-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 02:52 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...11612final.pdf

On Tuesday, Nov. 20, staff will present to the Glendale City Council a revised draft arena use agreement for the city-owned Jobing.com Arena during a City Council workshop session. The documents outline a tentative agreement between the city and Arizona Hockey Partners LLC, the prospective owner of the National Hockey League (NHL) Coyotes franchise with Greg Jamison as Manager.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122208.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122238.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...edExhibits.pdf

AMF

For the period beginning on the Closing Date and ending on June 30, 2013, $11,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2013 and ending on June 30, 2014, $14,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2014 and continuing each year until June 30, 2016, $15,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2016 and continuing each year until June 30, 2017, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2017 and continuing each year until June 30, 2022, $18,000,000 per year
Beginning on July 1, 2022 and continuing each year until June 30, 2023, $17,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2023 and continuing each year until June 30, 2027, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2027 and continuing each year until June 30, 2028, $14,000,000 per year.
Beginning on July 1, 2028 and continuing each year until the Termination Date, $13,000,000 per year.
If/when this gets signed, to quote an old Bill Cosby routine "The lights are really gonna go out" as it pertains to a rather morbid fascination of what would go down between CoG, old/new councils, GWI, and Glendale citizens.

Nov 20 onward is going to get interesting (and that's saying a lot considering this saga)

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:14 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
I'm sure the city would love to sell the arena and get it off their books. The stumbling block would be for anyone (state, country, private etc...) to pay what anywhere near what COG want (needs) to clear enough of the buidlings debt and put it behind them
Well they won't get enough money to clear all the debt. They borrowed $180 million to buy the arena from Ellman in 2003 (the deal was structured as Ellman building it and Glendale buying it). But its more of a cut your losses move at this point. Also, let I said earlier, the intangible benefits spread throughout the area and the fan base isn't all Glendale people if they want the team to stay the whole area should chip in

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...11612final.pdf

On Tuesday, Nov. 20, staff will present to the Glendale City Council a revised draft arena use agreement for the city-owned Jobing.com Arena during a City Council workshop session. The documents outline a tentative agreement between the city and Arizona Hockey Partners LLC, the prospective owner of the National Hockey League (NHL) Coyotes franchise with Greg Jamison as Manager.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122208.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122238.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...edExhibits.pdf

AMF

For the period beginning on the Closing Date and ending on June 30, 2013, $11,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2013 and ending on June 30, 2014, $14,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2014 and continuing each year until June 30, 2016, $15,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2016 and continuing each year until June 30, 2017, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2017 and continuing each year until June 30, 2022, $18,000,000 per year
Beginning on July 1, 2022 and continuing each year until June 30, 2023, $17,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2023 and continuing each year until June 30, 2027, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2027 and continuing each year until June 30, 2028, $14,000,000 per year.
Beginning on July 1, 2028 and continuing each year until the Termination Date, $13,000,000 per year.
So, it took them what 4 months to get down to $277M instead of $320M.

Btw, from what I understand, they will give Jamison $11M for a lame duck season. That's...amazing ! The guy just got richer without even raising his little finger.


Last edited by powerstuck: 11-16-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 03:30 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...11612final.pdf

On Tuesday, Nov. 20, staff will present to the Glendale City Council a revised draft arena use agreement for the city-owned Jobing.com Arena during a City Council workshop session. The documents outline a tentative agreement between the city and Arizona Hockey Partners LLC, the prospective owner of the National Hockey League (NHL) Coyotes franchise with Greg Jamison as Manager.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122208.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...-15-122238.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/...edExhibits.pdf

AMF

For the period beginning on the Closing Date and ending on June 30, 2013, $11,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2013 and ending on June 30, 2014, $14,000,000;
Beginning on July 1, 2014 and continuing each year until June 30, 2016, $15,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2016 and continuing each year until June 30, 2017, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2017 and continuing each year until June 30, 2022, $18,000,000 per year
Beginning on July 1, 2022 and continuing each year until June 30, 2023, $17,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2023 and continuing each year until June 30, 2027, $16,000,000 per year;
Beginning on July 1, 2027 and continuing each year until June 30, 2028, $14,000,000 per year.
Beginning on July 1, 2028 and continuing each year until the Termination Date, $13,000,000 per year.
Hey, this is improving, with the AMF reduced. Amazing what a bit of negotiation will accomplish. I wonder if the NHL has agreed to reduce the purchase price, thereby encouraging Jamison to take a lower subsidy.

I used to think that the COG were the main dweebs, but it seems that Jamison's delays in putting together an investment group have cost him some significant coin.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:40 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Hey, this is improving, with the AMF reduced. Amazing what a bit of negotiation will accomplish. I wonder if the NHL has agreed to reduce the purchase price, thereby encouraging Jamison to take a lower subsidy.

I used to think that the COG were the main dweebs, but it seems that Jamison's delays in putting together an investment group have cost him some significant coin.
Sorry, my math errors (didn't read the year spans carefully).

The total AMF is $307 million over 20 years (I think).

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:21 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Sorry, my math errors (didn't read the year spans carefully).

The total AMF is $307 million over 20 years (I think).
I get $308 million over 20 years, but close enough. That's only $15.4 million a year. I don't see how this is an improvement?

By the way, Jamison gets paid $11 million between "Close" and Jun 30, 2013. Sure there's a $60,000 penalty for each Coyotes game missed, but how is that calculated? If he doesn't close until March then in theory he's really only missing 8 games if the entire season is scrapped due to the CBA. So he'd get penalized $480,000 and still pocket $10.5 million for doing literally nothing in a 3 month ownership period. Not a bad deal.

Try explaining that to the townsfolk who can actually figure out that there won't be a season this year anyway, but Jamison will still get $10 million or more to manage the arena. $10 million that Glendale certainly doesn't have. If only they could illegally raid some more of their reserve accounts to make this payment they wouldn't have to make any more extreme budget cuts.

In other news, Gary wants to take a "two week" break from CBA negotiations. Hmmmm.... what will happen in the next 2 weeks that affects the one and only NHL team that is owned by the NHL?

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11-16-2012, 04:39 PM
  #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I second that motion for Phoenix LXIX, and submit the following lyrics to Glendale-ize Bryan Adams' masterpiece:

I signed my first real lease thing
Glendale thought it was a sign
Delayed until the deal went dead
Was before Thread Number Sixty-nine

DJ and some guys from school
Had a plan and they tried real hard
Investors quit, Beasley got queasy
Shoulda known they’d never get far

Oh when I look back now
This saga seemed to last forever
And if they had the choice
Yeah, no owner wants to be there

Those were the best days of my life

Ain’t no use in complaining
When Goldwater’s Jobbing you
Matty’s plan was brain-dead simple
Just buy the parking with an I.O.U. Yeah!

Sign it on the dotted line
These two weeks won’t last forever
But nobody has the coin
The NHL says now or never

Those were the best days of my life
Oh yeah
It happened before Thread Sixty-nine
Oh!

Man, they were killing time
They were getting restless
Greg showed up just in time
I guess Glendale is screwed forever
Forever, no!

And now the council’s changing
Look at all the owners come and gone
Sometimes when Joyce Clark is sober
She thinks about it, wonders what went wrong

Sign it on the dotted line
These two weeks won’t last forever
But nobody has the coin
The NHL says now or never

Those were the best days of my life
Oh Yeah
Back before Thread Number Sixty-nine
Oh Yeah
Jamison is turning Sixty-nine
Absolute gold!!!!

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:39 PM
  #744
OthmarAmmann
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I get $308 million over 20 years, but close enough.
ditto

So valuing the obligation comes out at somewhere between $130 mm and $200 mm (4% to 10% discount rate... 10% might be high but who knows really). This is more than 10% of their current debt outstanding. Considering they had to cut a debt offering this January to $6 million and all short term, it's telling that the ownership group is not conducting due diligence.

Their comprehensive financial report should be out sometime in mid December. Should be a gas.

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11-16-2012, 05:09 PM
  #745
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I get $308 million over 20 years, but close enough. That's only $15.4 million a year. I don't see how this is an improvement?
Well they're saving $12 million over a 20 year period. What government wouldn't want those kind of savings...

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:15 PM
  #746
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The next couple weeks should be fun to watch for sure. From what I see, even if this passes on Nov 27, Mr. Jamison will still need to actually buy.

17.2.1 Conditions to the Obligations of the Arena Manager.

(d) Arena Manager and Team Owner shall have (a) entered into the NHL
Purchase Agreement on terms acceptable to them in their sole discretion for the acquisition of the Team
and the Franchise and the assumption of such related agreements as shall be acceptable to them in their
sole discretion, and (b) shall have secured financing on terms acceptable to them in their sole discretion
sufficient to consummate the transactions set forth under the NHL Purchase Agreement, this Agreement,
to pay all related expenses, and to operate the Arena and the Team post-Closing (collectively, the “NHL
Purchase and Financing Condition”).

The saga may just take us in another loop and another...

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11-16-2012, 05:31 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
The next couple weeks should be fun to watch for sure. From what I see, even if this passes on Nov 27, Mr. Jamison will still need to actually buy.

17.2.1 Conditions to the Obligations of the Arena Manager.

(d) Arena Manager and Team Owner shall have (a) entered into the NHL
Purchase Agreement on terms acceptable to them in their sole discretion for the acquisition of the Team
and the Franchise and the assumption of such related agreements as shall be acceptable to them in their
sole discretion, and (b) shall have secured financing on terms acceptable to them in their sole discretion
sufficient to consummate the transactions set forth under the NHL Purchase Agreement, this Agreement,
to pay all related expenses, and to operate the Arena and the Team post-Closing (collectively, the “NHL
Purchase and Financing Condition”).

The saga may just take us in another loop and another...
My question is whether an ordinance passed by this city council to authorize signing a lease agreement with Jamison and the Team Owner can be changed or countermanded by the incoming council before the lease agreement is signed. I would think so, since the lease agreement that they passed in June has been amended by city council because it hasn't yet been signed.

So, until the Coyotes' sale is completed and a "Team Owner" emerges, and the lease agreement is finalized and signed by all parties, I suppose that it is open to being overturned by the incoming mayor and council.

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11-16-2012, 06:01 PM
  #748
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My question is whether an ordinance passed by this city council... can be changed or countermanded by the incoming council before the lease agreement is signed. I would think so, since the lease agreement that they passed in June has been amended by city council because it hasn't yet been signed.
... you'd sort of have to figure that, as from what was voted up in June to whatever Skeete & Jamison have since renegotiated would seemingly have altered its' complexion considerably no?.. And just where is Mr. Greg Jamison these days anyway; what if anything is going on between he & Skeete? Complete radio silence.

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11-16-2012, 06:30 PM
  #749
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... you'd sort of have to figure that, as from what was voted up in June to whatever Skeete & Jamison have since renegotiated would seemingly have altered its' complexion considerably no?.. And just where is Mr. Greg Jamison these days anyway; what if anything is going on between he & Skeete? Complete radio silence.
He's been very busy crafting a response to Mr. Weirs open letter.

He has also been busy riding horses out on Shane's ranch and working on some ceramics with Joyce.

Oh yeah, he's also still completing a world tour with hat in hand raising some speculative capital for a speculative deal with the NHL.

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11-16-2012, 06:55 PM
  #750
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He's been very busy crafting a response to Mr. Weirs open letter.
Seems like a lifetime ago then candidate for Mayor Jerry (another frikin Jerry) Weiers sent & published that invitation to Jamison huh?...

we didnt discuss it here on hf, but apparently during the runup to the election, now defeated candidate Manny Cruz had somehow obtained some video surveillance footage from the State Capital buildings that showed then District Representative Weiers backing his SUV up to a huge concrete planter that was being used to block off a roadway, tying a big rope around it and hauling it off to the side, when no one was around, lookin at him like.

Sort of thing youd expect to see Frat Boys or Engineering Students pull. Maybe some drunken Redneck looking for a free tree and 1 ton planter to spruce up the outside of his trailer thats parked at the bottom of an abandoned gravel pit a few miles outside of Yuma. Anyway, Jerry's explanation was that he did it so's he could drive his Harley in closer to his office and keep an eye on it. Footage can be found on Fox Phoenix, or just google it.... and just had to laugh at Manny Cruz; "the people of Glendale need to know about this mans temperament" yadda yadda yadda. This "new" Jerry looks like he's more than capable of providing quite a bit of entertainment for one and all.

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