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So who is bummed about the lockout? II

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:03 AM
  #476
Jarick
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Having read the latest Russos Rants and hearing Mike on KFAN, I'm now firmly anti-Fehr. Happy day for Squidz and Bozak I suppose.

At this point I'm done giving them the benefit out of the doubt. And it really appears that Fehr has no real intentions to make a deal. I don't know if he's trying to go after the cap or not, but I get the impression he's functioning not on behalf of the players but his own motives, be it his ego or legacy.

I really, honestly wanted to believe that he was simply using stall tactics and delaying the issue to pull the NHL closer to the players' side. And it worked, because they really did come across quite a bit. I don't think any reasonable person could look at the latest rumored NHL offer and say it is completely unfair.

But with all the reports Fehr continues to pursue guaranteed dollars with year-over-year increases...that's just nuts. Three months ago the numbers wouldn't have looked half bad if you translated them to percentage share and compared to historic growth rates, but the league is in much more danger of shrinking than growing at this rate, and he appears never to have fully got on board with percentage share.

The only conclusion I can draw from the reports now is that he has no intention of negotiating a deal for this season but wants to kill it. If he actually wanted to make a deal with the NHL, it would have been done last week.

I really do hope the players can get past their pride and see what kind of damage losing a full season of hockey would do.

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11-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #477
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So if this lockout does last the whole season, which I'm starting to think is inevitable, what happens to Bouchard, Cullen, and Backstrom who will all be ufas

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11-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #478
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I really hope there is some kind of player mutiny in the works that we have not heard about. Because the only way we have a season at this point is if Fehr get's thrown overboard before he's allowed to steer the ship into an iceberg.

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11-16-2012, 10:18 AM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
I really hope there is some kind of player mutiny in the works that we have not heard about. Because the only way we have a season at this point is if Fehr get's thrown overboard before he's allowed to steer the ship into an iceberg.
I can imagine Zdeno Chara talking to media, picking his teeth and being asked "Have you seen Fehr". "No, I is leader now. We made deal wit Bett-man."

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11-16-2012, 10:51 AM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
I can imagine Zdeno Chara talking to media, picking his teeth and being asked "Have you seen Fehr". "No, I is leader now. We made deal wit Bett-man."
Something tells me even Habs fans could get behind that fantasy.

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11-16-2012, 10:57 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopsey View Post
So if this lockout does last the whole season, which I'm starting to think is inevitable, what happens to Bouchard, Cullen, and Backstrom who will all be ufas
IMO all three will be moving on to other teams.

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11-16-2012, 11:11 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
IMO all three will be moving on to other teams.
Not necessarily Bouchard, and I'll be glad to keep Cullen if he signs for cheap. He deserves to retire in Minnesota.

As for Bäcks, he's gone. Either to Europe or another team that needs a veteran goalie.

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11-16-2012, 11:11 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Wrong. Union reps can't possibly adequately represent all players. There are too many conflicts of interest. They can only represent a small minority.

That is a fundamental flaw of all unions. One size does not fit all. Ask any attorney - you always get your own lawyer.

So the trick is to beat everybody in line and make the party across the table appear to be the devil.
Good analysis. There are so many players who are going to be so screwed by this... Yet none speak up.

Has the NHLPA replied to the NHL's proposal regarding contact length, entry level contract length, arbitration, FA timeframe? Seems to me they keep throwing out the same vague "proposal".

Where's the actual negotiation from the NHLPA?

1. Contract length - this is meaningless to 95% of the players. Offer to drop the length to 7 or 8 years, then settle for 6 or even 5.

2. Time to UFA - here's a big one, maybe the only big for the players. Answer is a hard line no, stays where it is.

3. Leave entry level contracts at 3 years.

4. % variance within a contract - negotiate it, 5%, 10%, whatever. Not something to lose $1.5 Billion over.

It really seems to me the NHLPA is in fact refusing to negotiate the issues...

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:25 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Having read the latest Russos Rants and hearing Mike on KFAN, I'm now firmly anti-Fehr. Happy day for Squidz and Bozak I suppose.
Not a happy day for me. I actually enjoyed your relative optimism and took every part of your argument seriously.

To me, it is not happy because it is yet one more fan that has hit the point where they realize that there is a ton of "WTF" going on with the players union.

On the Angry NHL Fans facebook page, one guy has been absolutely drinking the Kool-Aid from Fehr all along. As of Monday, he also hit the point where he is now all "**** Fehr".

Here is the honest point at which I hit the... (Depression meter at 100%?) wall when it comes to expecting Fehr to be able to come up with a compromise...

I started reading some of the archive articles about the 04-05 lockout. Pretty much everything and anything I could get my hands on. Now, I knew that the Fehrs have been pushing for a de-linked deal all along, but since I became a fan in 2007, I wasn't this deep into it during 04-05. In fact, until about 2009, I sorta figured that all was well within the league in my naiveté.

So fast forward to what I learned about the 04-05 issues…

Bettman and the owners whole agenda for that lost season was to get linkage, linkage between actual HRR and the players share, otherwise known as the cap system. They sacrificed a ton of money to get that set in stone and were willing to dick the players over to get it. While average salaries went up over the course of the 05 CBA, the high end players did see a major hit on their earnings. I get that, I empathize with that, and I would have been displaying split personalities during the 04-05 lockout.

They sacrificed an entire season to get that linkage.

Now? Fehr has put a stake in the ground that he wants salaries de-linked. Sure, the league would operate under a salary cap, but that salary cap would essentially be arbitrary and only arbitrary to the benefit of the players. With each of his proposals, the actual dollars going to the players share goes up immediately and goes up each year, regardless of the revenue.

De-linked... In negotiations with a league that fought for, sacrificed an entire season for, and ended up getting, linkage. That linkage benefited the players just as much as it has benefited the owners.

That, coupled with his disingenuous statements about wanting to operate under the 05 CBA for another year, soured me completely. Thinly veiled threat about striking during the play-offs was very thinly veiled.

Let me also state this; Hypothetically, if the league were to come back with the 05 CBA, verbatim, with the only two changes?
1. HRR Split to 50/50
2. Owners responsible for a 3 to 5 year “Make Whole” provision for contract/salary reductions.

Fehr would spit on it and then sell it to the players like Toews to call it garbage publicly.

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11-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #485
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I just wonder what his end game is.

Is he trying to tank/punish the league for implementing a cap in 04-05? Because the longer he keeps the lockout going, the worse the league will be in the long run. Lose a year or more, the fans aren't coming back as easily next time. The league will lose revenues, not just this year, but going forward.

The breaking point for me was I believed that last week was actual negotiations and progress. It seemed they were close on most contract issues and sounded like the PA accepted linked salary and 50/50, just hammer out the "make whole" payments and the remaining bits.

But when it comes out they are still pushing for fixed salary amounts with annual raises...that's ridiculous. That's not the position of someone looking to make a deal late in the game. That's someone who clearly doesn't want to compromise but to blow everything up.

And that's not good for anyone. The fans, owners, OR players. Nobody benefits if the league collapses, which is where this is headed.

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11-16-2012, 11:54 AM
  #486
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The one issue i sided with players on was when NHL initially proposed that the reduction in player share and expected that the players foot the bill while things even out, that to me was just *********.

but all the players did as i have come to read, not 100% sure if its true or not, but all its seems that they did was stall and stall and piss and moan. if they had in any way tried to negotiate a deal that was fair for them (54-52-50 for first 3 years, maybe i would be more sympathetic) not to mention that ******** liek Teows and Lupul and others who cry foul that Garry the big bad monster is hurting all of them, while the grunts who do all the cleaning and maintenance and such are laid off, players cry foul that they are being bent over the fire hydrant all the while posting pics of their nice expensive cars, or chilling on a beach, or taking jobs from European players, thats all fine but garry is just being a dick....

at this point the players have cost themselves the money, i mentioned earlier that the 3rd issue to a CBA was who pays for the damage, well after reading this do you expect Fehr to split it 50/50?

i can totally see a deal hinging on NHL paying for the full 100% damage a lockout caused because after all "we wanted to play they wouldn't let us *********)

Players if you are reading this, step up, man up, and act like men you claim to be, fire the ****** and go there and get a good deal for you which the owners will give you

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11-16-2012, 12:03 PM
  #487
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Welcome Jarick. I do know that feeling. I tried to stay "neutral" as long as possible, until felt that it just wasn't possible anymore. I'm not against the players. But very much against Fehr.

Like bozak said, it's not a warm welcome. They who believed, made me believe a bit too.. through my cynicism and pessimism.

Let's hope that reason wins out, but that faith is getting thinner.. and thinner.

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11-16-2012, 12:22 PM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I just wonder what his end game is.
No idea, dude...

The only thing that ran through my mind is this;

Gary Bettman, Bill Daly, and the Board of Governors grew the league to a 3.3 billion dollar entity since the passing of the last CBA. They implemented a system of parity where some of the most entertaining hockey has been played in the last two-three seasons.

Donal Fehr was the architect of the agreement in which one Major League Baseball team has a pay roll of $25 Million and another of $200 Million. The MLB system is one of disparity and I cannot even stand to watch 10 minutes of a baseball game.

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11-16-2012, 01:04 PM
  #489
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I sent an email to my sister's husband who's German and doesn't follow hockey, and told about the NHL lockout and how it's affecting European leagues as well. I included Wiki links to players and leagues so he has at least some clue what I'm talking about. The "Don Fehr" text linked to an article about Adolf Hitler.

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11-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
I sent an email to my sister's husband who's German and doesn't follow hockey, and told about the NHL lockout and how it's affecting European leagues as well. I included Wiki links to players and leagues so he has at least some clue what I'm talking about. The "Don Fehr" text linked to an article about Adolf Hitler.
Don Fehr killed millions of people including women and children!? I thought he was just a regular, greedy d-bag.. News to me.

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11-16-2012, 01:20 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Generic User View Post
Don Fehr killed millions of people including women and children!? I thought he was just a regular, greedy d-bag.. News to me.
It was meant as a joke in an otherwise informational and time-consuming e-mail.

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11-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
I sent an email to my sister's husband who's German and doesn't follow hockey, and told about the NHL lockout and how it's affecting European leagues as well. I included Wiki links to players and leagues so he has at least some clue what I'm talking about. The "Don Fehr" text linked to an article about Adolf Hitler.
If I were a Jew, this would be pretty offensive.

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11-16-2012, 02:12 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
If I were a Jew, this would be pretty offensive.
Meh. It's been 70 years, and they're familiar with my sense of humor.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone by the way, wasn't my intention.

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11-16-2012, 02:49 PM
  #494
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It's in my nature to be more deliberate (probably why I'm a mod), but at some point you have to draw the line.

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11-16-2012, 03:05 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
It's in my nature to be more deliberate (probably why I'm a mod), but at some point you have to draw the line.
Yeah. Don Fehr is not Hitler. He just killed baseball and is working on killing hockey...

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11-16-2012, 03:56 PM
  #496
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Well only thing I can say right now.. I'm glad when all this is over, and NHL hockey starts again. Some day it will.

I know myself, I'll be back and I'll be cheering both, players and the team. Just don't want to listen their (or actually representatives') excuses anymore.

Today, I'm feeling bad for the all the other employees who are tied in this business. Those who really try to make their living but got no say in it.

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11-16-2012, 04:25 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Yeah. Don Fehr is not Hitler. He just killed baseball and is working on killing hockey...
technically he didn't kill baseball, while the system in my opinion sucks, players make a haul, owners make money. really all don cares about is his clients making a killing, he certainly has done that in baseball.

in my opinion dons end game this time around is his legacy, he wants to get rid of the nhl hard cap, he wants to have a 'free" market where his players can play to the owners weakness and get big money from big market teams. simply put he wants to win, he doesn't want to end his career on a "players lost share to owners"

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11-16-2012, 05:19 PM
  #498
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This season is done short of a mutiny IMO. That sickens me. I don't see how anyone can think Fehr is in the players best interest. He's an egomaniac that just worried about his legacy and not the people he is supposed to represent. Hockey and Baseball are the only major sports where they did not crown a champion one of the years in my lifetime. Who's the common denominator?

It's time for multiple big time players to come out and bash him. Problem is they don't need to get paid this year because they have been paid extremely well before this year. If they need the money they just go over seas. Really am pissed off.

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11-16-2012, 05:28 PM
  #499
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Quasi related but...the crew at puckdaddy are hugely one-sided on this lockout. They're just bloggers so they aren't under any ethical onus to be balanced but what on earth is going on, there? Is the PA paying people?

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11-16-2012, 08:51 PM
  #500
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Sigh....another clueless player speaking out.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/16...ttman-an-idiot

Loved Darren Dreger's response to this. I'll post it when I find it.

Edit: Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Candor and strong opinion are always welcome, however, Ian White calling Gary Bettman an "idiot" is disrespectful and requires an apology.

Oh, and here's a reply to that from Brandon Prust!

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8

@DarrenDreger what gary bettman is doing is disrespectful n deserves n apology

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