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Israel-Gaza conflict huge escalation

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:22 AM
  #226
StokesAndJokes
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Israel channel #2 news reporting IOF Jet with pilot downed in Gaza.

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11-16-2012, 10:23 AM
  #227
guest1467
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Originally Posted by StokesAndJokes View Post
Egypt PM has warned Israel about doing a ground invasion.

IF Egypt gets involved..then we will have a full scale conflict with the US getting involved. Would be especially ugly for the US since we have supplied Egypt with the newest weapons and tech..
The US would not get involved.

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11-16-2012, 10:23 AM
  #228
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Israel channel #2 news reporting IOF Jet with pilot downed in Gaza.
Now, that is interesting. I wonder how they got it down.

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11-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #229
Doppler Drift
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Yes, I can read. You said they were terrorists, then questioned me calling them terrorists, even though you yourself said they were of a violent nature. Seems kind of contradictory.

No you said this:

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Originally Posted by ixcuincle
Hamas is essentially a terrorist organization. So you want me to support terrorists!?

But don't believe me, both the US and Canadian governments designate it as a terrorist organization.
Who cares what they say? They will call groups fighting against their allies terrorists and groups fighting against their enemies freedom fighters every single time. Using what a government says as gospel on something like this is farcical. GET IT?

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11-16-2012, 10:33 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
No you said this:



Who cares what they say? They will call groups fighting against their allies terrorists and groups fighting against their enemies freedom fighters every single time. Using what a government says as gospel on something like this is farcical. GET IT?
But then you called Hamas a terrorist organization, so the US government was right.

Listen, the US government has been wrong before, as you said, in Afghanistan in the 80's, and they also called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. But there is no doubt Hamas is a terrorist organization. GET IT?

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11-16-2012, 10:34 AM
  #231
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I'd likely to offer a uniquely American solution:

Gather up everyone in the middle-east, Israelis, Saudis, Egyptians, Palestinians , etc.and send them and all their guns to the moon. Let them have their little fight up on a dusty old rock where they aren't at risk of blowing up all the oil!

Whoever is alive at the end gets to come back an be king of the Middle East.

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11-16-2012, 10:35 AM
  #232
Francesa
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I'd likely to offer a uniquely American solution:

Gather up everyone in the middle-east, Israelis, Saudis, Egyptians, Palestinians , etc.and send them and all their guns to the moon. Let them have their little fight up on a dusty old rock where they aren't at risk of blowing up all the oil!

Whoever is alive at the end gets to come back an be king of the Middle East.
Or, as someone suggested earlier in this forum, the US should just invade and force them to cooperate. After all, nothing could go wrong with that, right?

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11-16-2012, 10:37 AM
  #233
BenchBrawl
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I'm not really informed about all the middle east problems between countries , but is there any way those problems could be fixed without a massive war at this point? Can these people really co-exist with the history they have?

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11-16-2012, 10:39 AM
  #234
zytz
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Or, as someone suggested earlier in this forum, the US should just invade and force them to cooperate. After all, nothing could go wrong with that, right?
Please, with my method, America would be a hero to the only people that matter- the people left alive.

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11-16-2012, 11:17 AM
  #235
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Israeli reservists outside of Gaza

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11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #236
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Russian President Vladimir Putin says his country will back Egyptian efforts to put an end to the Israeli aggression in the besieged Gaza Strip.


In a telephone conversation with Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi on Friday, Putin said Russia planned to support Cairo's efforts directed at normalizing the situation in the Palestinian territory, the Kremlin said in a statement.

The remarks come after Egypt’s Prime Minister Hisham Qandil visited the Gaza Strip on Friday, where he urged the world leaders to stop Tel Aviv’s attacks.

Qandil promised to intensify Egypt’s efforts to “stop this aggression and achieve a lasting truce."
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/11...-israel-putin/

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11-16-2012, 11:22 AM
  #237
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WHILE COUNTRIES across Europe and North America commemorated military casualties of past and present wars on November 11, Israel was targeting civilians.
On November 12, waking up to a new week, readers at breakfast were flooded with heart rending accounts of past and current military casualties.
There was, however, no or little mention of the fact that the majority of casualties of modern day wars are civilians.
There was also hardly any mention on the morning of November 12 of military attacks on Gaza that continued throughout the weekend.
A cursory scan confirms this for Canada's CBC, Globe and Mail, Montreal's Gazette, and the Toronto Star. Equally, for the New York Times and for the BBC.
According to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) report on Sunday November 11, five Palestinian civilians including three children had been killed in the Gaza strip in the previous 72 hours, in addition to two Palestinian security personnel.
Four of the deaths occurred as a result of Israeli military firing artillery shells on youngsters playing soccer. Moreover, 52 civilians had been wounded, of which six were women and 12 were children. (Since we began composing this text, the Palestinian death toll has risen, and continues to rise.)
Articles that do report on the killings overwhelmingly focus on the killing of Palestinian security personnel. For example, an Associated Press article published in the CBC world news on November 13, entitled 'Israel mulls resuming targeted killings of Gaza militants,' mentions absolutely nothing of civilian deaths and injuries. It portrays the killings as 'targeted assassinations.' The fact that casualties have overwhelmingly been civilians indicates that Israel is not so much engaged in "targeted" killings, as in "collective" killings, thus once again committing the crime of collective punishment.
Another AP item on CBC news from November 12 reads 'Gaza rocket fire raises pressure on Israel government.' It features a photo of an Israeli woman gazing on a hole in her living room ceiling. Again, no images, nor mention of the numerous bleeding casualties or corpses in Gaza. Along the same lines, a BBC headline on November 12 reads 'Israel hit by fresh volley of rockets from Gaza.' Similar trends can be illustrated for European mainstream papers.
News items overwhelmingly focus on the rockets that have been fired from Gaza, none of which have caused human casualties. What is not in focus are the shellings and bombardments on Gaza, which have resulted in numerous severe and fatal casualties. It doesn't take an expert in media science to understand that what we are facing is at best shoddy and skewed reporting, and at worst willfully dishonest manipulation of the readership.
Furthermore, articles that do mention the Palestinian casualties in Gaza consistently report that Israeli operations are in response to rockets from Gaza and to the injuring of Israeli soldiers. However, the chronology of events of the recent flare-up began on November 5, when an innocent, apparently mentally unfit, 20-year old man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, was shot when he wandered close to the border. Medics had to wait for six hours to be permitted to pick him up and they suspect that he may have died because of that delay.
Then, on November 8, a 13-year-old boy playing football in front of his house was killed by fire from the IOF that had moved into Gazan territory with tanks as well as helicopters. The wounding of four Israeli soldiers at the border on November 10 was therefore already part of a chain of events where Gazan civilians had been killed, and not the triggering event.
We, the signatories, have recently returned from a visit to the Gaza strip. Some among us are now connected to Palestinians living in Gaza through social media. For two nights in a row Palestinians in Gaza were prevented from sleeping through continued engagement of drones, F16s, and indiscriminate bombings of various targets inside the densely populated Gaza strip.
The intent of this is clearly to terrorise the population, successfully so, as we can ascertain from our friends' reports. If it was not for Facebook postings, we would not be aware of the degree of terror felt by ordinary Palestinian civilians in Gaza. This stands in stark contrast to the world's awareness of terrorised and shock-treated Israeli citizens.
An extract of a report sent by a Canadian medic who happened to be in Gaza and helped out in Shifa hospital ER over the weekend says: "the wounded were all civilians with multiple puncture wounds from shrapnel: brain injuries, neck injuries, hemo-pneumo thorax, pericardial tamponade, splenic rupture, intestinal perforations, slatted limbs, traumatic amputations. All of this with no monitors, few stethoscopes, one ultrasound machine. …. Many people with serious but non life threatening injuries were sent home to be re-assessed in the morning due to the sheer volume of casualties. The penetrating shrapnel injuries were spooky. Tiny wounds with massive internal injuries. … There was very little morphine for analgesia."
Apparently such scenes are not newsworthy for the New York Times, the CBC, or the BBC.
Bias and dishonesty with respect to the oppression of Palestinians is nothing new in Western media and has been widely documented. Nevertheless, Israel continues its crimes against humanity with full acquiescence and financial, military and moral support from our governments, the U.S., Canada and the EU.
Netanyahu is currently garnering Western diplomatic support for additional operations in Gaza, which makes us worry that another Cast Lead may be on the horizon. In fact, the very recent events are confirming such an escalation has already begun, as today's death-count climbs. The lack of widespread public outrage at these crimes is a direct consequence of the systematic way in which the facts are withheld and/or of the skewed way these crimes are portrayed.
We wish to express our outrage at the reprehensible media coverage of these acts in the mainstream (corporate) media.
We call on journalists around the world working for corporate media outlets to refuse to be instruments of this systematic policy of disguise. We call on citizens to inform themselves through independent media, and to voice their conscience by whichever means is accessible to them.
Hagit Borer, U.K.
Antoine Bustros, Canada
Noam Chomsky, U.S.
David Heap, Canada
Stephanie Kelly, Canada
Máire Noonan, Canada
Philippe Prévost, France
Verena Stresing, France
Laurie Tuller, France
http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/pale...3YoHPH.twitter

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11-16-2012, 11:23 AM
  #238
Blackhawkswincup
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The simple reality is that Israel today practices apartheid policy that destroys the economy of Gaza and forces its people to live under humiliating conditions

Sadly the world sits on sidelines as Israel brutalizes and degrades the people of Gaza/West Bank

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11-16-2012, 11:26 AM
  #239
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Anonymous is going hard on Israeli and pro-Israel websites.

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Israel’s deadly military operation in Gaza, which began Wednesday, is striking not only in its intensity (the most intensive series of airstrikes since Operation Cast Lead in 2009) but also in its exposition over social media. As our own Alex Halperin noted Wednesday, the IDF has been using Twitter and YouTube to communicate details about Operation Pillar of Defense and to send threats to Hamas. A number of reports also claim that Israel plans to shut off the Internet in Gaza.

When it comes to cyber-warfare, however, the IDF’s foes are legion. Diffuse hacker collective Anonymous on Thursday announced #OpIsrael via Twitter in response to Israel’s threats. In a release posted on Pastebin, Anonymous wrote:

For far to long, Anonymous has stood by with the rest of the world and watched in despair the barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment of the Palestinian people in the so called “Occupied Territories” by the Israel Defense Force. Like so many around the globe, we have felt helpless in the face of such implacable evil. And today’s insane attack and threatened invasion of Gaza was more of the same.

When the government of Israel publicly threatened to sever all Internet and other telecommunications into and out of Gaza they crossed a line in the sand. As the former dictator of Egypt Mubarack learned the hard way – we are ANONYMOUS and NO ONE shuts down the Internet on our watch. To the IDF and government of Israel we issue you this warning only once. Do NOT shut down the Internet into the “Occupied Territories”, and cease and desist from your terror upon the innocent people of Palestine or you will know the full and unbridled wrath of Anonymous. And like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will NOT survive it unscathed.

According to the Observer’s BetaBeat, “Anonymous has already begun defacing multiple pro-Israel websites, including Falcon-s.co.il and Advocate-israel.com. They’ve also compiled an Anonymous Gaza Care Package, which contains basic safety and surveillance avoidance information, as well as instructions for how to jigger an internet connection if Israel takes down Gaza’s servers. Another document posted to Pastebin outlines how to connect to dial-up in the event of an internet outage.”

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11-16-2012, 11:35 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I'm not really informed about all the middle east problems between countries , but is there any way those problems could be fixed without a massive war at this point? Can these people really co-exist with the history they have?
Yes. In as much as the differences would be anhilated and only the winner left standing.


Its like europe circa 500 years or more ago.

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11-16-2012, 11:43 AM
  #241
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Saddest part of this entire cycle of violence is that Yitzhak Rabin had peace on horizon

The modern middle east would be a much different place if he wasn't killed by a radical Israeli

Since his death the peace process has died and further fallen into abyss

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11-16-2012, 11:53 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I'm not really informed about all the middle east problems between countries , but is there any way those problems could be fixed without a massive war at this point? Can these people really co-exist with the history they have?
The average citizens don't really care, so I think it's possible though extremely unlikely. The problem is, you will never get to that point as long as certain elements are still involved. To get to that point you probably would need a big war.

You can't rout organisations which rely on terror-operations. The only way to get rid of them is for them to change internally, and even then you are unlikely to succeed entirely. Just take a look at the IRA, they stopped fighting and things have been rather peaceful compared to the past, yet some fanatics will always remain, hence the existance of the "true IRA".

You would probably need to have people who can influence Hamas and everyone else involved on that side to the point that they think not attacking Israel is a good idea. In turn, you would need to make sure that Israel doesn't strike back over every single attack, as a few will always happen. Afterwards Israel would need to actually comply with UN-resolutions and get all of their settlers back to where they are allowed to settle. And international leaders would actually be needed to use common sense for once.


As for the Nazi-comparisons, I wouldn't say Israel has reached that level, but their behaviour is certainly very odd. Next to Germany, Israel should be the one country that knows what oppression leads to. There were two options to go to from that point:

a) realizing that something like that is the worst thing that can be done and that you need to convince everyone that no one must ever experience it again (in any form)
b) try to make sure that you will never have to suffer like that again, regardless of what it takes to achieve that

Sadly, Israel chose the wrong one. In parts understandably so, but sometimes you just have to look at the greater good, even if it hurts early on.

The situation is a bit like between France and Germany in 1919 and to a lesser extend in 1871. Sure the Treaty of Versailles made France much stronger than Germany and took away the risk of war for some time, but humiliating the other isn't going to lead to any lasting peace, much less friendship. To get to a lasting peace, the stronger one needs to be benevolent, and in this case that has to be Israel.

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11-16-2012, 12:25 PM
  #243
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Israel broke an informal ceasefire on Wednesday by assassinating Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari in an air strike. The Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate talks between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, has revealed Jabari was assassinated just hours after he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the ceasefire. Baskin, the founder of the Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information, joins us from Jerusalem. We also speak with Palestinian journalist Mohammed Omer based in Gaza. [includes rush transcript]
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/...s_assassinated

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11-16-2012, 01:07 PM
  #244
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SO Israel broke the ceasefire, but the dozens of rockets luanched the previous days didn't count as fire?

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11-16-2012, 01:09 PM
  #245
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buddahsmoka1 attempting to destroy the happy "Israel was just sitting there doing nothing and these crazy terrorists just started lobbing missiles at it!" narrative that the US media circle jerk is attempting to impose on the events of the past week.

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11-16-2012, 01:16 PM
  #246
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buddahsmoka1 attempting to destroy the happy "Israel was just sitting there doing nothing and these crazy terrorists just started lobbing missiles at it!" narrative that the US media circle jerk is attempting to impose on the events of the past week.
What? The "US media circle jerk" reported Israel started it by killing that Hamas leader.

Israel did start it, but it was justified. Do you remember in elementary school when one kid started to fight another kid, and the adults interfered? "He started it!" "Nuh uh, he did!" "No, he did."

Israel and Palestine basically amount to being 2 kids. The Palestinians are not victims, not when they responded. Both sides are at fault, and I don't know why it's so difficult for people to see this. They both need to sit in the time-out corner.

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11-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #247
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Maybe you all are watching other news channels, but all the conspiracy theories of "Zionist" media or "Israeli / US bias" are debunked if you watch ABC News like I do.

I can't speak for the rest of the networks.

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11-16-2012, 01:24 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
What? The "US media circle jerk" reported Israel started it by killing that Hamas leader.

Israel did start it, but it was justified. Do you remember in elementary school when one kid started to fight another kid, and the adults interfered? "He started it!" "Nuh uh, he did!" "No, he did."

Israel and Palestine basically amount to being 2 kids. The Palestinians are not victims, not when they responded. Both sides are at fault, and I don't know why it's so difficult for people to see this. They both need to sit in the time-out corner.
Look, I actually respect your opinions, and I wish to avoid acrimony, but you'll never convince me that several million Palestinians living under a harsh military occupation for the past 45 years are not "victims."

Again, this idea that "both sides are to blame" ignores the overwhelming disparity in power between the IDF and the Palestinian resistance, as well as the clear cut moral difference between "occupier" and "occupied."

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11-16-2012, 01:48 PM
  #249
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How are Palestinians causing so much damage? With mortars? What weapons could they really have to threaten Israel so much?

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11-16-2012, 01:52 PM
  #250
The Russian General
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How are Palestinians causing so much damage? With mortars? What weapons could they really have to threaten Israel so much?
They have rocks. And anyone who has that sort of weapons is a threat for every modern army in the world.

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