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Israel-Gaza conflict huge escalation

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:57 PM
  #251
Stylizer1
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
They have rocks. And anyone who has that sort of weapons is a threat for every modern army in the world.
I wasn't sure, thanks.

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11-16-2012, 02:03 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Maybe you all are watching other news channels, but all the conspiracy theories of "Zionist" media or "Israeli / US bias" are debunked if you watch ABC News like I do.

I can't speak for the rest of the networks.
Robert A. Iger says hi.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:06 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
How are Palestinians causing so much damage? With mortars? What weapons could they really have to threaten Israel so much?
They have missiles imported from Iran, Libya, Lebanon, and Egypt, they also build their own (but most of these are only capable of hitting South Israel). The missiles that made it all the way to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are missiles such as the Fajr-5.

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But in the latest round of the conflict the Palestinians have used a weapon which gives them a rare if short-lived advantage – a rocket which can strike at Israel's civilian heartland. This is the Fajr-5, developed by Iran and also supplied to Hezbollah, Tehran's Lebanese ally. It has a range of up to 46.6 miles (75km), which means it can hit Tel Aviv and elsewhere in the heavily populated conurbation in central Israel.

It was striking that Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah's leader, singled out the Iranian-made weapon in a speech in Beirut on Thursday. "The firing of Fajr-5 rockets on Tel Aviv shows the maturation, the wisdom and strength, and the courage of the Palestinian resistance in the Gaza Strip," he said. "The Israeli enemy was surprised and forced to acknowledge that its capital had been hit."

Exactly how the Fajr-5 reached Gaza is not known. But its parts were probably smuggled in through the tunnels that link the blockaded enclave to the outside world. In October 2011 international observers in Sinai reported that one had been test-fired in the desert.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...za-israel-iran

They also have anti-aircraft missiles such as the SA-7, which is probably what brought down that F-16 today.

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11-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #254
Burke the Legend
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
Look, I actually respect your opinions, and I wish to avoid acrimony, but you'll never convince me that several million Palestinians living under a harsh military occupation for the past 45 years are not "victims."

Again, this idea that "both sides are to blame" ignores the overwhelming disparity in power between the IDF and the Palestinian resistance, as well as the clear cut moral difference between "occupier" and "occupied."
They are "victims" of the poor and evil decisions of their fathers and leaders.

-3 wars of aggression 1948, 1967, 1973 initiated by Arabs, won by Israel.
-Various Palestinian insurgent/terrorist campaigns against Israel 1969-2005 which resulted in the Palestinian Arabs becoming unwelcome in Jordan, Kuwait and Lebanon.
-Regional Arab leaders' unwillingness to resettle initial refugees in their nations, keeping them in permanent refugee status (abetted by the UN), and denying later generations born on their soil even basic citizendship.

Now those are events of the past, but since the Arabs came out the losers of all of they explain their current predicament. Of course if the Arabs had managed to actually win one of these military events (and they came close in all 3 open wars), the Jewish state would no longer exist so you can't say the possible spoils were one sided, only the eventual results were.

Now moving into more productive issues of the present. Peace could be achieved tomorrow if:

-Palestinian factions acknowledge the Jewish state's right to exist and remove constitutions/charters with wording dedicated to destruction of Jewish state.
-Renounciation of all violence against Israel and disarmament of Gaza/West Bank.
-Strict discipline of any Palestinian militants who fail to adhere to the above, so all violent plotting against Israel ends.

I guarantee you if they did that, Israel would reciprocate by relaxing commercial and travel restrictions they currently impose for their security, and the Arabs of these territories could engage fully in productive enterprise while both sides work towards a new final sovereign agreement.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
They have missiles imported from Iran, Libya, Lebanon, and Egypt, they also build their own (but most of these are only capable of hitting South Israel). The missiles that made it all the way to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are missiles such as the Fajr-5.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...za-israel-iran

They also have anti-aircraft missiles such as the SA-7, which is probably what brought down that F-16 today.
I found that info too but it seems a litlle far fetched. These are not weapons you can just put in your pocket and smuggle in to a heavily guarded controlled zone.

Who's to say this isn't part of the propaganda machine to create a worse enemy?

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11-16-2012, 02:15 PM
  #256
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I remember when Obama was criticized for taking such a hard stance against Israel early in his term. And I think I understand why. He knew that the PM for Israel was a radical. Almost as radical as the president of Iran. And for stability in the Middle East you can't have radical governments.

Israel has turned the sympathy they garnered after World War II into this obsessive guilt trip sort of thing that is not only annoying but it's time to move on. The Jews weren't the only major group persecuted during World War II by the Nazis and yes, they lost a significant portion of their people but so did the Chinese, Russians, and Koreans. And yet they have moved on and forged ahead. The Holocaust wasn't simply about the Jews but all undesirable races like the Gypsies, the Slavs.

The United States should and would be better off if they did sever all ties with Israel. You know. 60 years is enough. And a lot of these recent attacks can be blamed on Israel. They have no intention of making peace. They haven't shown it in recent years.

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11-16-2012, 02:18 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
I found that info too but it seems a litlle far fetched. These are not weapons you can just put in your pocket and smuggle in to a heavily guarded controlled zone.

Who's to say this isn't part of the propaganda machine to create a worse enemy?
It is not far fetched considering missiles have been shot to Tel Aviv from Gaza today, which is logistically impossible unless they were imported. Hamas does not have the capability to build such advanced weaponry.

Weapons smuggling is very developed in the North Africa/Middle East region. It is not surprising, to me at least, that Hamas has a few of these types of missiles.

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11-16-2012, 02:18 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
How are Palestinians causing so much damage? With mortars? What weapons could they really have to threaten Israel so much?
Mortars, rockets, not huge stuff. It's part of the reason why that despite the huge number of bombs thrown in to Israel, very few people actually end up dying.

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11-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
It is not far fetched considering missiles have been shot to Tel Aviv from Gaza today, which is logistically impossible unless they were imported. Hamas does not have the capability to build such advanced weaponry.

Weapons smuggling is very developed in the North Africa/Middle East region. It is not surprising, to me at least, that Hamas has a few of these types of missiles.
Here's a little bit on Qassam rockets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

Including this little nugget:

The introduction of the Qassam rocket took Israeli politicians and military experts by surprise,[16] and reactions have been mixed.[17] In 2006, the Israeli Ministry of Defense viewed the Qassams as "more a psychological than physical threat."

So much for Hamas seeking to "wipe Israel off the map." With what, a magic wand?

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11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #260
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BTW has anyone actually listened to the president of Iran or even read the transcripts of his interviews?

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11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by sjsharky View Post
Mortars, rockets, not huge stuff. It's part of the reason why that despite the huge number of bombs thrown in to Israel, very few people actually end up dying.
At best Mortars have a 5km range so settlements around would be affected.

Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are pretty far and would take more than lighting a fuse and hoping for the best.

If they do poses Fajr-5 missiles they have a range of 75 km

gaza and tel aviv are 85 km apart.
gaza and jerusalem are 78 km apart.

If Israel has such a good military why could they not intercept these missiles?



They must have these hidden in their al-Qaeda built mountain fortress.

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11-16-2012, 02:29 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
At best Mortars have a 5km range so settlements around would be affected.

Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are pretty far and would take more than lighting a fuse and hoping for the best.

If they do poses Fajr-5 missiles they have a range of 75 km

gaza and tel aviv are 85 km apart.
gaza and jerusalem are 78 km apart.

If Israel has such a good military why could they not intercept these missiles?
Why doesn't the US just invade the region. Everyone will stop fighting then!

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11-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
At best Mortars have a 5km range so settlements around would be affected.

Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are pretty far and would take more than lighting a fuse and hoping for the best.

If they do poses Fajr-5 missiles they have a range of 75 km

gaza and tel aviv are 85 km apart.
gaza and jerusalem are 78 km apart.

If Israel has such a good military why could they not intercept these missiles?
Intercepting missiles with missiles? Sounds like Jewish Star Wars:


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11-16-2012, 02:34 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
At best Mortars have a 5km range so settlements around would be affected.

Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are pretty far and would take more than lighting a fuse and hoping for the best.

If they do poses Fajr-5 missiles they have a range of 75 km

gaza and tel aviv are 85 km apart.
gaza and jerusalem are 78 km apart.

If Israel has such a good military why could they not intercept these missiles?



They must have these hidden in their al-Qaeda built mountain fortress.
Is this map accurate?


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11-16-2012, 02:34 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Why doesn't the US just invade the region. Everyone will stop fighting then!
Finally, someone see's the light.

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11-16-2012, 02:34 PM
  #266
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We have had a lot of disagreements and name calling but we can all agree that Jews in Space clip from History of the World is hilarious

Back to name-calling and mudslinging

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11-16-2012, 02:35 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
At best Mortars have a 5km range so settlements around would be affected.

Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are pretty far and would take more than lighting a fuse and hoping for the best.

If they do poses Fajr-5 missiles they have a range of 75 km

gaza and tel aviv are 85 km apart.
gaza and jerusalem are 78 km apart.

If Israel has such a good military why could they not intercept these missiles?



They must have these hidden in their al-Qaeda built mountain fortress.
The iron some does intercept many of the rockets

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11-16-2012, 02:36 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Finally, someone see's the light.
Your asinine assertion that the US invading would do anything to alleviate the tensions in the Middle East is absolutely, positively, without question, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these political boards.

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11-16-2012, 02:39 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I remember when Obama was criticized for taking such a hard stance against Israel early in his term. And I think I understand why. He knew that the PM for Israel was a radical. Almost as radical as the president of Iran. And for stability in the Middle East you can't have radical governments.

Israel has turned the sympathy they garnered after World War II into this obsessive guilt trip sort of thing that is not only annoying but it's time to move on. The Jews weren't the only major group persecuted during World War II by the Nazis and yes, they lost a significant portion of their people but so did the Chinese, Russians, and Koreans. And yet they have moved on and forged ahead. The Holocaust wasn't simply about the Jews but all undesirable races like the Gypsies, the Slavs.

The United States should and would be better off if they did sever all ties with Israel. You know. 60 years is enough. And a lot of these recent attacks can be blamed on Israel. They have no intention of making peace. They haven't shown it in recent years.
Except we all know it won't happen because of all the economics ties both countries have.

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11-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
They are "victims" of the poor and evil decisions of their fathers and leaders.

-3 wars of aggression 1948, 1967, 1973 initiated by Arabs, won by Israel.
..
Disagree with 67 as the Israeli's started that

Also the Israeli's + British/French initiated hostilites in 1956 when they invaded Egypt ,, But the pro-Israel side pretends that never happened

Good thing the US had a true great president in office at time who was willing to stand up against the Israeli/French/British invasion

And the Early 80's invasion of Lebanon was easily the most disurptive and devastating war between Israeli/Arabs and that was a war that Israel started and ended up pulling back in defeat (Also to universal scorn as they allowed genocide to happen before there eyes in refugee camps when the allies they armed went and slaughtered so many men/women/children)

And the 2006 war in Lebanon was overreaction on Israel's part that further disrupted progress in Lebanon

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11-16-2012, 02:41 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Your asinine assertion that the US invading would do anything to alleviate the tensions in the Middle East is absolutely, positively, without question, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these political boards.
I think he forgot a smiley.

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11-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Your asinine assertion that the US invading would do anything to alleviate the tensions in the Middle East is absolutely, positively, without question, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these political boards.
It would if they came in and said "the hell with you israel, and the hell with you Gaza, the next one to fire is getting ****ed up like Iraq"

Then they bring in flower pots and and baby back ribs and say lets get along.

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11-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
I think he forgot a smiley.

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11-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #274
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Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis, according to U.S. diplomatic cables published by a Norwegian daily on Wednesday.

Three cables cited by the Aftenposten newspaper, which has said it has all 250,000 U.S. cables leaked to WikiLeaks, showed that Israel kept the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv briefed on its internationally criticized blockade of the Gaza Strip.

The territory, home to 1.3 million Palestinians, is run by the Islamist Hamas group, which is shunned by the West over its refusal to recognize Israel, renounce violence or accept existing interim Israeli-Palestinian peace deals.

"As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed to (U.S. embassy economic officers) on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge," one of the cables read.

Israel wanted the coastal territory's economy "functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis", according to the Nov. 3, 2008 cable.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...lapse-1.335354

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11-16-2012, 02:44 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
It would if they came in and said "the hell with you israel, and the hell with you Gaza, the next one to fire is getting ****ed up like Iraq"

Then they bring in flower pots and and baby back ribs and say lets get along.
nope it would never work.









Jews don't eat ribs.

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