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Luongo Thread: Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For (Mod Warning in OP)

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Old
11-16-2012, 01:44 PM
  #701
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
and leave a massive hole on defense. No thanks!
+1

lol at the comparison of a top four defenseman to a "serviceable depth forward". Are we talking about Edler or Ballard?

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11-16-2012, 02:13 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
You would rate Edler ahead of Phaneuf? They have identical skill-sets, except Phaneuf adds meanness that Edler does not have. This makes him exactly what the Canucks currently lack on their 'd'.
How do you quantify "meanness" in hockey sense?

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #703
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How about this:

Luongo
Mason Raymond
3rd round pick

for

Joffrey Lupul
Matt Frattin
1st round pick

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How about this:

Luongo
Mason Raymond
3rd round pick

for

Joffrey Lupul
Matt Frattin
1st round pick
I'd still request the pick to be protected...otherwise, sure.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:29 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How do you quantify "meanness" in hockey sense?
You must run around out of position looking for hits and you can't get along with all your teammates.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:30 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How about this:

Luongo
Mason Raymond
3rd round pick

for

Joffrey Lupul
Matt Frattin
1st round pick
Deal. Don't know much about Frattin, though.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:36 PM
  #707
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[QUOTE=WonderTwinsUnite;55812525]Deal. Don't know much about Frattin, though.[/QUOTE]

Physical winger...good hands, cannon for a shot.

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11-16-2012, 02:53 PM
  #708
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Physical winger...good hands, cannon for a shot.
Cam the blogger called him "replacement level", do you think he's got an NHL career ahead of him?

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:12 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How do you quantify "meanness" in hockey sense?
Meanness is not measurable, it's judged. Is a player willing to really hurt another player, and do they enjoy inflicting pain. These types of players are extremely difficult to play against. Chara has meanness. Pronger has meanness. Weber has meanness. The Canucks hope that Kassian has meanness. There are plenty of players with meanness, but only a few that have a skill-set that includes high end talent too.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:15 PM
  #710
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I still did not see the point of getting prospects for a team that is supposed to be contending for a cup, a first round pick is not going to score in the playoff, lupul is a second line player who had a career year, and Lupul is the best player coming back? That's it? If that is all Burke is going to offer then no thanks we should be keeping him, when we trade away player with elite talent, we want elite talent back.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:18 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How do you quantify "meanness" in hockey sense?
same way you quantify "heart" (you don't)

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:27 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
same way you quantify "heart" (you don't)
Agreed. For example: which player would the current Canucks need more, Alex Burrows or Milan Lucic? Simply looking at statistics many would choose Burrows. However, considering the intangible of 'meanness' (and its necessity for the current Canucks roster to succeed in the playoffs) there are many more who would select Lucic.

So, do the Canucks need another top six forward who's best quality is scoring, or do they need a skilled defense-man that has meanness to play in the top pair?

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:32 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Cam the blogger called him "replacement level", do you think he's got an NHL career ahead of him?
He's young, pretty quick with decent offensive skill. Plays with an edge. Real good 3rd liner, could play as high as 2nd IMO.

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11-16-2012, 03:33 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Agreed. For example: which player would the current Canucks need more, Alex Burrows or Milan Lucic? Simply looking at statistics many would choose Burrows. However, considering the intangible of 'meanness' (and its necessity for the current Canucks roster to succeed in the playoffs) there are many more who would select Lucic.

So, do the Canucks need another top six forward who's best quality is scoring, or do they need a skilled defense-man that has meanness to play in the top pair?
I would not trade Alex Burrows for Milan Lucic. I know that sounds like a ridiculous statement, but if you're going to be using unquantifiable means to pump a players tires, then I'm going to point to Burrows's heart and clutchiness.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
So, do the Canucks need another top six forward who's best quality is scoring, or do they need a skilled defense-man that has meanness to play in the top pair?
I will not rest until the Canucks have someone as mean as Nick Lidstrom on their top pair.

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11-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I still did not see the point of getting prospects for a team that is supposed to be contending for a cup, a first round pick is not going to score in the playoff, lupul is a second line player who had a career year, and Lupul is the best player coming back? That's it? If that is all Burke is going to offer then no thanks we should be keeping him, when we trade away player with elite talent, we want elite talent back.
Then offer him to the Rangers, Kings, Flyers and other top teams...they may have "elite" talent they feel is expendable.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:40 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
He's young, pretty quick with decent offensive skill. Plays with an edge. Real good 3rd liner, could play as high as 2nd IMO.
Maybe a Chris Kunitz type if he pans out?

How do you feel about Bozak, specifically defensively. Why the poor Corsi?

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:44 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Maybe a Chris Kunitz type if he pans out?

How do you feel about Bozak, specifically defensively. Why the poor Corsi?
Quite honestly, because he plays with Kessel. That and TO's defensive numbers are negatively skewed by Ron Wilson's "to Hell with defense!!" approach to coaching. My honest opinion of Bozak...above average 3C...decent 2C fill in. I think his defense is fine, has a good eye for passing...not overly physical.

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11-16-2012, 03:48 PM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Quite honestly, because he plays with Kessel. That and TO's defensive numbers are negatively skewed by Ron Wilson's "to Hell with defense!!" approach to coaching. My honest opinion of Bozak...above average 3C...decent 2C fill in. I think his defense is fine, has a good eye for passing...not overly physical.
That's not supported by the stats though. Bozak seemed to get worse without Kessel.

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11-16-2012, 03:51 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That's not supported by the stats though. Bozak seemed to get worse without Kessel.
If you mean offensive stats....wouldn't that be obvious?

Again, to only look on paper (which i understand is sometimes the only option), all of the Leafs Defensive stats are not good. The fact is, for 75% of the season, it was an offense first system, Also the fact that alot of times the Leafs were playing from behind and Bozak's line were taking more chances on offense. Not a sales pitch, just reality.


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Old
11-16-2012, 04:29 PM
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
If you mean offensive stats....wouldn't that be obvious?

Again, to only look on paper (which i understand is sometimes the only option), all of the Leafs Defensive stats are not good. The fact is, for 75% of the season, it was an offense first system, Also the fact that alot of times the Leafs were playing from behind and Bozak's line were taking more chances on offense. Not a sales pitch, just reality.
His CORSI stats got worse when he wasn't with Kessel than when he was, suggesting Kessel wasn't the reason they were dragged down.

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:38 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How do you quantify "meanness" in hockey sense?
I bet when someone devises a system of meannessmetrics you will be misusing it for 3 years as proof of anything and everything you want it to be.

Edit: Lol, just read your last post.


Last edited by craigcaulks*: 11-16-2012 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Lol.
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Old
11-16-2012, 06:30 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I would not trade Alex Burrows for Milan Lucic. I know that sounds like a ridiculous statement, but if you're going to be using unquantifiable means to pump a players tires, then I'm going to point to Burrows's heart and clutchiness.
I like Burrows too; he is an excellent player. The Canucks, however, are in need of a Lucic more than they need a Burrows. Lucic provides: "pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence" as Brian Burke is so fond of stating. Could you not imagine the Sedins with Lucic? Are you old enough to remember Gino Odjick? If so, do you remember how important he was to Pavel Bure's success?

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:46 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
I like Burrows too; he is an excellent player. The Canucks, however, are in need of a Lucic more than they need a Burrows. Lucic provides: "pugnacity, testosterone, truculence and belligerence" as Brian Burke is so fond of stating. Could you not imagine the Sedins with Lucic? Are you old enough to remember Gino Odjick? If so, do you remember how important he was to Pavel Bure's success?
I think the Sedins with Brock Lesnar on the wing is even scarier. That guy is very mean.

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11-16-2012, 06:58 PM
  #725
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That's not supported by the stats though. Bozak seemed to get worse without Kessel.
After Kessel and Lupul the next forward he played the most with was Lombardi.

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