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Dougie Hamilton vs Morgan Rielly

View Poll Results: Who would you take?
Dougie Hamilton 316 64.23%
Morgan Rielly 138 28.05%
too close to call 38 7.72%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:02 AM
  #201
Atomos2
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How tall is the NHL ready Ryan Murray?

http://i.thestar.com/images/82/69/5f...539826a0a9.jpg

Maybe Rielly was on a step ladder


Last edited by Atomos2: 11-16-2012 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Forgot to add the picture
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Old
11-16-2012, 11:52 AM
  #202
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Not trying to over hype Rielly but yesterday Bob McKenzie was on TSN Radio 1050 and said how he was blown away by the way Rielly played at the recent Canada/Russa Super Series. He mentioned that Rielly has qualities of Scott Niedermayer and skates in the class of Paul Coffey. Finally he mentioned that Rielly could be the best of the bunch when compared to the players selected ahead of him. So these are comments from someone who isn't working for the Maple Leafs and doesn't need to always hype them up.

If you want to hear is comments that start in the 4:00 mark here is a link to them.

http://www2.tsn.ca/window/podcastcen...id=13906&id=59

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11-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #203
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All due respect to McKenzie, but he's just sensationalizing Rielly with a statement like that. Coffey's skating was on a completely different level. So was Niedermayer's, for that matter. There are a number of skaters in the NHL right now I'd put on a level higher than Rielly.

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11-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
And that's all I was trying to say as well . All else being equal, being taller increases your odds of being an NHL defenseman.
No, you said that the odds of him being a star NHL defensemen are low statistically without actually being able to justify that statement. When you make statements like that, you should be able to back them up with a meaningful argument. Just saying that defensemen his size and lower are the minority is not at all backing up that statement. You need to learn to think about what the numbers you're posting actually mean.

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11-16-2012, 01:38 PM
  #205
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No, you said that the odds of him being a star NHL defensemen are low statistically without actually being able to justify that statement. When you make statements like that, you should be able to back them up with a meaningful argument. Just saying that defensemen his size and lower are the minority is not at all backing up that statement. You need to learn to think about what the numbers you're posting actually mean.
I already clarified that comment, what I meant was that it's statistically less likely for a 6 foot defenseman to make it as a star in the NHL and that Rielly is in fact a 6 foot defenseman.

Obviously that doesn't necessitate that he himself is less likely to be a star, just that statistically people of similar sizes have not fared all that well in the NHL. I happen to worry that he is part of that population that doesn't usually make it and accounts for only 26% of the population in the NHL.

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11-16-2012, 02:06 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
All due respect to McKenzie, but he's just sensationalizing Rielly with a statement like that. Coffey's skating was on a completely different level. So was Niedermayer's, for that matter. There are a number of skaters in the NHL right now I'd put on a level higher than Rielly.
You'll have to say the same thing to Ray Ferraro too because he pretty much said the same thing. It's ok to be skeptical on their views, but Mckenzie has been in this business for a long time so I'm not one to go against him. Especially since we haven't seen Rielly directly matched up against NHL skaters so we basically only have a reference point against juniors and we can see he is clearly above their level in skating.

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11-16-2012, 02:10 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
All due respect to McKenzie, but he's just sensationalizing Rielly with a statement like that. Coffey's skating was on a completely different level. So was Niedermayer's, for that matter. There are a number of skaters in the NHL right now I'd put on a level higher than Rielly.
In all fairness, Rielly's 18. It's hard for an 18 year old not to get considerably better at skating over the next 6 years of his life. Especially with the help they get.

Rielly's one of the more impressive skating junior Dmen I've seen in a while. And he's got some nice tools and a head that can take him pretty far.

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11-16-2012, 02:11 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Not trying to over hype Rielly but yesterday Bob McKenzie was on TSN Radio 1050 and said how he was blown away by the way Rielly played at the recent Canada/Russa Super Series. He mentioned that Rielly has qualities of Scott Niedermayer and skates in the class of Paul Coffey. Finally he mentioned that Rielly could be the best of the bunch when compared to the players selected ahead of him. So these are comments from someone who isn't working for the Maple Leafs and doesn't need to always hype them up.
1.Not trying to over hype Rielly .
2.Rielly has qualities of Scott Niedermayer.
3.[Rielly] Skates in the class of Paul Coffey.

lol



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11-16-2012, 02:37 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
You'll have to say the same thing to Ray Ferraro too because he pretty much said the same thing. It's ok to be skeptical on their views, but Mckenzie has been in this business for a long time so I'm not one to go against him. Especially since we haven't seen Rielly directly matched up against NHL skaters so we basically only have a reference point against juniors and we can see he is clearly above their level in skating.
Ferraro is the same genius who gave us the Patrick Stefan quote. Hardly a good source.

He's certainly above the average Junior skater, but it's not like he's head and shoulders better than, say, Murray or Murphy. Of the NHL skaters, I don't think he quite matches up to someone like Karlsson, or even Fowler. He seems closer to Campbell's skating than he does Coffey.

I'm not saying Rielly isn't a terrific skater. He is, and he should only get better, but to compare him to Coffey he had better look like the best skater in the world, IMO. I think McKenzie is being overly generous with a comparison like that.

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11-16-2012, 02:38 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
1.Not trying to over hype Rielly .
2.Rielly has qualities of Scott Niedermayer.
3.[Rielly] Skates in the class of Paul Coffey.

lol


Those were the words of Bob McKenzie who is a well respected Hockey Insider and not some random Maple Leafs fan.

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11-16-2012, 02:46 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Those were the words of Bob McKenzie who is a well respected Hockey Insider and not some random Maple Leafs fan.
O god were gunna have to hear this quote from Mackenzie for the next 6 months, can HF put a limit on how many times this quote can be used per day. Almost any prospect in the top 5 can have quotes pulled from around draft day that hypes them over another guy.

Rielly is a top prospect but didnt TML fans learn that over hyping a prospect to such high levels (Kadri) looks ridiculous 2-3 years down the road

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11-16-2012, 02:54 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Ferraro is the same genius who gave us the Patrick Stefan quote. Hardly a good source.

He's certainly above the average Junior skater, but it's not like he's head and shoulders better than, say, Murray or Murphy. Of the NHL skaters, I don't think he quite matches up to someone like Karlsson, or even Fowler. He seems closer to Campbell's skating than he does Coffey.

I'm not saying Rielly isn't a terrific skater. He is, and he should only get better, but to compare him to Coffey he had better look like the best skater in the world, IMO. I think McKenzie is being overly generous with a comparison like that.
Well, first of all, from what I saw, Rielly is way more dynamic in his skating than Murray. And I am certain Rielly has a faster acceleration than Murphy. I don't know how you can accurately measure skating styles from just watching a junior game and trying to compare it to an NHL game. I watched Fowler a lot in Junior, and Rielly is more of a dynamic skater than he was at that level. But then again, we are talking about junior hockey.

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11-16-2012, 02:56 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Rielly is good, but Dougy is something else. I haven't seen someone with his blend of size, skills and smarts in the OHL since Alex Pietrangelo. Rielly is probably 4th best D prospect for me behind Dougy, Schultz and Gormley
I'd agree with this. Rielly will be elite, but Hamilton is going to be a franchise player.

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11-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Well, first of all, from what I saw, Rielly is way more dynamic in his skating than Murray. And I am certain Rielly has a faster acceleration than Murphy. I don't know how you can accurately measure skating styles from just watching a junior game and trying to compare it to an NHL game. I watched Fowler a lot in Junior, and Rielly is more of a dynamic skater than he was at that level. But then again, we are talking about junior hockey.
Dynamic doesn't mean better. Sami Vatanen is a more dynamic skater than Cam Fowler is, but ask any Anaheim fan who the better skater is.

I'm talking about overall skating ability here, and I really don't think it's that difficult to compare. Balance, edge work, pivots, etc... this isn't just about who looks better moving in a straight line.

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11-16-2012, 03:52 PM
  #215
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Dynamic doesn't mean better. Sami Vatanen is a more dynamic skater than Cam Fowler is, but ask any Anaheim fan who the better skater is.

I'm talking about overall skating ability here, and I really don't think it's that difficult to compare. Balance, edge work, pivots, etc... this isn't just about who looks better moving in a straight line.
That's what makes Rielly a better skater, because he does have all those tools plus, he also has that dynamic skating ability. If you notice Rielly's edge work and pivots are exceptional. On offense Morgan Rielly has incredible 4 way lateral skating mobility where he can be so deceptive in his rushes up the ice like someone that I will refrain from a comparison to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8mRMfP3_SA

Take a look at this to see just how elite Rielly's overall skating ability is. BTW he's #44


Murray has an amazing skating ability, but he rarely uses that skating ability to be as deceptive as Rielly on the rush. He usually uses that specialty for defence. And in terms of skating ability Murphy, I'd say Murphy is elite as well.

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11-16-2012, 03:55 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
That's what makes Rielly a better skater, because he does have all those tools plus, he also has that dynamic skating ability. If you notice Rielly's edge work and pivots are exceptional. On offense Morgan Rielly has incredible 4 way lateral skating mobility where he can be so deceptive in his rushes up the ice like someone that I will refrain from a comparison to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8mRMfP3_SA

Take a look at this to see just how elite Rielly's overall skating ability is. BTW he's #44


Murray has an amazing skating ability, but he rarely uses that skating ability to be as deceptive as Rielly on the rush. He usually uses that specialty for defence. And in terms of skating ability Murphy, I'd say Murphy is elite as well.
I can see the same watching Cam Fowler, only he looks even more effortless while doing it. What's the difference?

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11-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #217
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I can see the same watching Cam Fowler, only he looks even more effortless while doing it. What's the difference?
The difference is, Bob Mckenzie says that skating style and the use of that skating style on offence reminds him of Niedermayer's skating. If it reminded him of Cam Fowler then I'm sure he would have said it.

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11-16-2012, 04:15 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
The difference is, Bob Mckenzie says that skating style and the use of that skating style on offence reminds him of Niedermayer's skating. If it reminded him of Cam Fowler then I'm sure he would have said it.
While Reilley may have amazing skating, keep in mind that prospects get compared to great players all the time. If you see the comparables at the draft there are far too many big names thrown around. Also, I think Bob means style, not actually equal to because a guy like Coffey.

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11-16-2012, 04:22 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
The difference is, Bob Mckenzie says that skating style and the use of that skating style on offence reminds him of Niedermayer's skating. If it reminded him of Cam Fowler then I'm sure he would have said it.
Cam Fowler's skating was compared to Niedermayer and Coffey too. Analysts do that type of thing all the time, because it's easy to picture. "Oh, he skates like him? That must mean he has a fluid and effortless stride." It's been done for years.

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11-16-2012, 04:23 PM
  #220
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Honestly the kid is an amazing skater period, he would garner more respect if he wasn't a Leaf prospect as most leaf fans can annoy other teams fans. However Bobbie Mac is a more then credible source and certainly more qualified then any of us....unless somone here can prove they are an NHL level scout?

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11-16-2012, 04:23 PM
  #221
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While Reilley may have amazing skating, keep in mind that prospects get compared to great players all the time. If you see the comparables at the draft there are far too many big names thrown around. Also, I think Bob means style, not actually equal to because a guy like Coffey.
Exactly. That's why I said Rielly's skating style reminded him of Niedermayer's skating style. Said nothing about him being as good as Niedermayer. (Which would be impossible since I already said I voted for Hamilton in this thread...unless I think Hamilton is better than Niedermayer which I DON'T!)

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11-16-2012, 04:26 PM
  #222
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I'd agree with this. Rielly will be elite, but Hamilton is going to be a franchise player.
Nah

I see Hamilton as more of a Cody Franson type

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11-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Cam Fowler's skating was compared to Niedermayer and Coffey too. Analysts do that type of thing all the time, because it's easy to picture. "Oh, he skates like him? That must mean he has a fluid and effortless stride." It's been done for years.
Well actually Mckenzie said he has a lot of Niedermayer's qualities, but I more focused on the fact he said "he skates in the class of Niedermayer" (paraphrase). Who knows, maybe Fowler is in that class too.

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11-16-2012, 04:29 PM
  #224
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It was "skates in the class of Coffey" which brings me to my initial point: That's just sensationalizing Rielly. He's a terrific skater, but Coffey is a once in a life time skater. Coffey is generally considered to be one of the best skaters to have ever played. If Rielly is in his class, then so are a number of other NHL players, and that would kind of dilute the term.

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11-16-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
It was "skates in the class of Coffey" which brings me to my initial point: That's just sensationalizing Rielly. He's a terrific skater, but Coffey is a once in a life time skater. Coffey is generally considered to be one of the best skaters to have ever played. If Rielly is in his class, then so are a number of other NHL players, and that would kind of dilute the term.
"skates in the class of a Scott Niedermayer or a Paul Coffey" to be exact. Well Rielly is his own person. Remember, Mckenzie said he skates in the class of those two and then he said he prolly wouldn't bring Rielly up to the NHL. Obviously I'm not taking what he says too literally or else why wouldn't you bring a Coffey or Niedermayer into the NHL. But his skating must be at the most elite level for his age if he is being compared to in that way.


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