HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

Eric Lindros Speaks Out On NHL Lockout

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-16-2012, 02:18 PM
  #51
CantHaveTkachev
not allowed!
 
CantHaveTkachev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. OILbert
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Perhaps Lindros's parents understood economics. The biggest stars make the most money in the biggest markets.
ya, really hurt Joe Sakic

CantHaveTkachev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:18 PM
  #52
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Perhaps Lindros's parents understood economics. The biggest stars make the most money in the biggest markets.
And this attutude that the PA has is a great example of why we are in a labour dispute right now.

Cawz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:18 PM
  #53
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
 
CpatainCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
.

They need the union. It was suggested that the PA just rubber stamp any NHL condition/demand. Well, if that's all they're supposed to do, they would be better off disbanding. The teams would be worse off.
I have no problem with unions if they act reasonably. If Fehr had negotiated off of the late October proposal from the league to save an 82 game season I would have applauded him for making the best use of the leverage available to his union to get the best return for his constituents. His current stance is simply idiotic. He doesn't hold the cards to get the league to bend to the union proposal, and even if they did none of his players would recoup the revenue lossed from a missed season. His stance his hurting everybody: the owners and the players, long term and short term.




Quote:
Right, so let's stop talking about greed and share of HRR because it's not that simple. There are far bigger implications, for teams and players, depending on the results of those contracting rights.

As has been stated numerous times, the NHL shouldn't care how the players divide up the money, but they do.
I see you ignored the rest of my posts.

You're wrong: the nhl is affected by how players divide up their money. The most obvious example in recent memory are the front loaded contracts which teams used to creatively get around the cap. However I assure you that the nhl would have no problem negotiating most of the contract rights in question if Fehr would in turn negotiate from the league's proposal. Bettman and the owners actually do care about the health of the league, unlike Fehr & CO.

CpatainCanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:19 PM
  #54
Model62
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
Damn their business sense and looking out for family, their son is just supposed to be a trained meathead for our entertainment.
Well sure. We're all just looking after our own interests.

Model62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #55
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 45,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
ya, really hurt Joe Sakic
It isn't about the player being hurt. It's about maximizing opportunity. That was Fugu's point. What you said does not refute it.

TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #56
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
.

They need the union. It was suggested that the PA just rubber stamp any NHL condition/demand. Well, if that's all they're supposed to do, they would be better off disbanding. The teams would be worse off.
How about instead of taking the extreme approach of rubber stamping, the PA instead negotiates off the NHLs offer. Is that really so unreasonable?

They may need a union, but they dont need a hard-line stance.

Cawz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:25 PM
  #57
CantHaveTkachev
not allowed!
 
CantHaveTkachev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. OILbert
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
It isn't about the player being hurt. It's about maximizing opportunity. That was Fugu's point. What you said does not refute it.
so you think Eric was a bigger star playing in Philly as opposed to Quebec/Colrado?

CantHaveTkachev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #58
Model62
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
ya, really hurt Joe Sakic
Sakic's big contracts didn't materialize until the club decamped to Colorado. Denver's not the biggest market in the USA, but it's bigger than Quebec.

His first big payday? After he signed an RFA offer sheet from the New York Rangers (the biggest market of them all).

Model62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:30 PM
  #59
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 45,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
so you think Eric was a bigger star playing in Philly as opposed to Quebec/Colrado?
Is that what I said? Fugu's original point was superstars make more money in bigger markets. You simply said that Joe Sakic made money. Your comment has nothing to do with what Fugu was talking about to begin with. You're just saying a player made money.

Now if you really think that players in a league with no salary cap can make more money in smaller markets than they can in larger markets, feel free.

edit: see above

TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #60
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
I want to be a slave for a million a year. Sign me up.
I never thought being a slave could sound so good.
Sometimes I wish Aliens would land and enslave mankind,
cuz I'd really like one of those little beds with my name on it.

Jack Handey

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #61
Oscar Acosta
Registered User
 
Oscar Acosta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
Well sure. We're all just looking after our own interests.
Yes.

Just a reality of the world.

Oscar Acosta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:44 PM
  #62
CerebralGenesis
Registered User
 
CerebralGenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
How about instead of taking the extreme approach of rubber stamping, the PA instead negotiates off the NHLs offer. Is that really so unreasonable?

They may need a union, but they dont need a hard-line stance.
Not part of Fehr's playbook.

CerebralGenesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:50 PM
  #63
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 7,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
By privileged you mean worked their ass off for 10 years to make the NHL right?
I think he means that they make more than almost everyone in the world, they're chauffeured around the US and Canada, and sometimes even Europe with first-class everything and they know that no matter how terribly they fall short of the performance expected of them, their employment and pay is guaranteed.

That's privilege any way you cut it.

People in other fields also work their ass off to get their jobs and they get none of those perks. If my boss is going to fire me for falling short of the performance that is expected of me, or even because I'm doing great but the company isn't making money, the fact that I worked hard to get the job means nothing.

haveandare is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 02:54 PM
  #64
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post


This is false. You're citing a figure from Forbes, who btw, also have not seen the audited reports. McGuire did say he 'knew' that 13 teams were losing money. YMMV-- but that's not an assumption I'd make. Furthermore, the PA has pushed for targeted assistance, which would indicate they found something in the financial records and offered to do their part.

Interest way you stated that because you are correct, he said he knew 13 teams were losing money but I did not here any reference to the other 17. Saying you know 13 teams are losing money does not preclude the possibly that there are 18 teams losing money. It could mean 5 teams that are losing money did not provide that information to McGuire.


Last edited by Orrthebest: 11-16-2012 at 02:57 PM. Reason: typo
Orrthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:01 PM
  #65
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country: United States
Posts: 30,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
ya, really hurt Joe Sakic
Joe Sakic signed an offer sheet from the NY Rangers. THAT is what propelled Sakic's earnings. Colorado, just like Detroit and several other teams around that time, would let RFAs sit until and unless they signed lowball offers (lowball in the sense of what their real market value was at that time).

Edit: I see someone put that up above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
Interest way you stated that because you are correct, he said he knew 13 teams were losing money but I did not here any reference to the other 17. Saying you know 13 teams are losing money does not preclude the possibly that there are 18 teams losing money. It could mean 5 teams that are losing money did not provide that information to McGuire.

Actually, he did offer some rough breakdown (there's a thread here on it). Top third were fine, and the rest weren't as profitable, but they weren't bleeding.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:06 PM
  #66
PeterSidorkiewicz
Original *** allstar
 
PeterSidorkiewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Michigan
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 15,887
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I think he means that they make more than almost everyone in the world, they're chauffeured around the US and Canada, and sometimes even Europe with first-class everything and they know that no matter how terribly they fall short of the performance expected of them, their employment and pay is guaranteed.

That's privilege any way you cut it.

People in other fields also work their ass off to get their jobs and they get none of those perks. If my boss is going to fire me for falling short of the performance that is expected of me, or even because I'm doing great but the company isn't making money, the fact that I worked hard to get the job means nothing.
Sounds like you need to form a union to protect your work rights.

PeterSidorkiewicz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:14 PM
  #67
HockeyShack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 356
vCash: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
What I don't get is that Lindros is claiming that the biggest thing players want is having their existing contracts honoured. Hasn't this already been offered by the NHL?
Yes, for the most part they were.

The players want a pay Raise. Which is fine to ask for, however you don't always get one.

HockeyShack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:25 PM
  #68
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Joe Sakic signed an offer sheet from the NY Rangers. THAT is what propelled Sakic's earnings. Colorado, just like Detroit and several other teams around that time, would let RFAs sit until and unless they signed lowball offers (lowball in the sense of what their real market value was at that time).






Actually, he did offer some rough breakdown (there's a thread here on it). Top third were fine, and the rest weren't as profitable, but they weren't bleeding.
So which group did he put San Jose in? They have lost money on their hockey operations every year but until last year they were able to cover the losses through their Area Management deal.

Orrthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:42 PM
  #69
Oshie97
Registered User
 
Oshie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,461
vCash: 500
If the players don't like the fact that they have to take pay cuts then they can go play in another league... Oh wait that's right, no other league could come close to paying their players the amount the NHL does. Take the small pay cut, make sure the league gets better revenue sharing and be thankful you make millions playing a sport.

Oshie97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:50 PM
  #70
PensFanSince1989
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
Really? Workers don't have a right to be paid for their services? Guess they should just be slaves.
Well, that's a straw an argument if I've ever seen one.

And thank you Lindros, you're one of the key reasons why we're in this mess in the first place. Shocking that Lindros is in the PA's side on this, shocking.

PensFanSince1989 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:51 PM
  #71
bobafettish*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,961
vCash: 500
players accepted 50/50? news to me

bobafettish* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 03:53 PM
  #72
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
They need the union. It was suggested that the PA just rubber stamp any NHL condition/demand. Well, if that's all they're supposed to do, they would be better off disbanding. The teams would be worse off.

Right, so let's stop talking about greed and share of HRR because it's not that simple. There are far bigger implications, for teams and players, depending on the results of those contracting rights.

As has been stated numerous times, the NHL shouldn't care how the players divide up the money, but they do.
Nobody is suggesting that the NHLPA just "okay"s any offer put forth, no matter what the details. This is about finding a deal that is as beneficial to the players as possible while still allowing for a healthy league.

People are pro-owner because only the owners have submitted an offer that is close to that.

OF COURSE the NHL cares how the millions of dollars they hand out is allocated among the players on their team, because that affects how their team will do and what players they can sign or keep. Just like they need to care about insurance, and cap circumvention that sees the players earn more than their share.


Last edited by Whydidijoin*: 11-16-2012 at 04:01 PM.
Whydidijoin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 04:00 PM
  #73
Whydidijoin*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Actually, he did offer some rough breakdown (there's a thread here on it). Top third were fine, and the rest weren't as profitable, but they weren't bleeding.
Top third were not "fine".

Most of the league is either experiencing actual loss or loss based on opportunity cost. That is not financially stable, especially since costs will only continue to rise.

Whydidijoin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 04:04 PM
  #74
I am the Liquor
finger sniffer
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,040
vCash: 0
Eric Lindros. Hilarious. Why would anyone care what that goof thinks about anything?

He is indignant about the owners not living up to their obligations and what's fair?

Is this guy serious?

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 04:13 PM
  #75
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
Really? Workers don't have a right to be paid for their services? Guess they should just be slaves.
There's a far cry from being paid, to being guaranteed X dollars. Who says their entitled to 57%, or 50%, or even 40%? Yes they're the talent in a multibillion dollar industry, and deserve to make some serious coin - the fact that they're millionaires does not bother me.

But there's absolutely a sense of entitlement here where the players somehow think they deserve 57%. Just look at all their offers... they start at 57% and then they get fixed raises.

__________________
"I changed the whole game, man," Rinaldo said. "Who knows what the game would have been like if I didn't do what I did?" [after illegally running Letang from behind, slamming his head into the glass]
Riptide is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.