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Will there be rule changes again this time around?

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:12 PM
  #126
Cursed Lemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
What was said:



They most certainly are: If you stay in your crease it's a penalty and illegal in terms of the game. I don't know about you, but I consider having an area where you are untouchable as "protection".
I love how people continually miss the point with the goalie/fair game schtick.

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11-16-2012, 03:21 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
Bigger nets. Players have nothing to shoot at anymore. Most of the goals now are deflections, garbage rebounds, screens, etc. I want to see a winger streak down the wing and blast a slapshot by the goalie, like the old days. Now, the winger has nothing to shoot at.

It's very simple to me. If the NHL won't shrink the goalie equipment, then make the nets bigger. Force the goalies to make acrobatic saves, rather than just simply blocking the puck.
Last playoffs had a 5 GPG average.

That's FINE.

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11-16-2012, 03:27 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Last playoffs had a 5 GPG average.

That's FINE.
Yea, but last playoffs was one of the worst in recent memory as far as excitement goes. Besides the 1st round, the rest of the playoffs was an absolute bore.

I'm not saying I want to go back to 10-7 games, but I just want to see some shots from the point that cleanly beat a goalie. If a goalie is covering an angle, it's almost impossible for a shooter to beat him, unless it gets deflected or he's screened.

The average size of an NHL goalie is now around 6ft 3, 6 ft 4. 20/30 years ago, it was 5ft10. Plus the goalie equipment is much larger.

Make the nets bigger to compensate, pretty easy solution if you ask me.

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11-16-2012, 03:33 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
Yea, but last playoffs was one of the worst in recent memory as far as excitement goes. Besides the 1st round, the rest of the playoffs was an absolute bore.

I'm not saying I want to go back to 10-7 games, but I just want to see some shots from the point that cleanly beat a goalie. If a goalie is covering an angle, it's almost impossible for a shooter to beat him, unless it gets deflected or he's screened.

The average size of an NHL goalie is now around 6ft 3, 6 ft 4. 20/30 years ago, it was 5ft10. Plus the goalie equipment is much larger.

Make the nets bigger to compensate, pretty easy solution if you ask me.
Shoutout percentage is hovering somewhere near 50-50.

That means that the play quality is your key to "better goal scoring," not changing the size of the nets.

Defense has become more refined in modern hockey than ever.

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11-16-2012, 06:46 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Last playoffs had a 5 GPG average.

That's FINE.
Bear in mind you've taken a sample size that:
1) is 7% of the regular season (87 games vs. 1,230 games)
2) excludes the bottom half of the league, and the ~325 players they entail

That's a pretty flawed sample to be making inferences from.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:09 PM
  #131
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Have one of the on ice referees sit off ice and put him in a room with monitors showing every camera angle. Allow him to make a call if a blatant call is missed or to overrule a call on the ice if it is obvious from the replays that it was a blown call.

Either that or have a more proactive war room that will step in and overrule when there is an obvious blown call.

Another option would be to allow coaches to challenge, but a lot of fans don't like the delay of game while a play is reviewed.

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11-16-2012, 07:13 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
Bigger nets. Players have nothing to shoot at anymore. Most of the goals now are deflections, garbage rebounds, screens, etc. I want to see a winger streak down the wing and blast a slapshot by the goalie, like the old days. Now, the winger has nothing to shoot at.

It's very simple to me. If the NHL won't shrink the goalie equipment, then make the nets bigger. Force the goalies to make acrobatic saves, rather than just simply blocking the puck.
Artificial scoring is not going to make the game any better.

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Old
11-17-2012, 10:18 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
You can always tell the people who have never played this sport. They are the ones who come up with these "brilliant" ideas when in fact goalies gear do not allow you to move fast to avoid checks
Then stay in your crease where you are protected from being hit.

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Old
11-17-2012, 10:20 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
I love how people continually miss the point with the goalie/fair game schtick.
I love how people avoid addressing what was stated and decide to make passive-aggressive posts instead.

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11-17-2012, 10:33 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
It's pretty obvious that he meant that goaltenders' equipment isn't designed to provide protection for hits. There is zero padding on the back of the head, and next to none on the backs of the legs.
If goalies were fair game to be hit, then they would be frequently injured due to those hits.

Also, a goaltender being hit is at a significant disadvantage after being hit than a regular skater, because of the extra 40 pounds of equpiment he's wearing. He can't just bounce back up the same way a forward does.

It's not as simple as "If goalies don't wanna get hit, then they should stay in the crease."
I really don't care what was meant: Goalies are in fact protected from being hit. To state otherwise is a fallacy.

How is it not that simple? You are being given an area on the ice where you are untouchable. Guess what happens to a goalie in soccer if he leaves his crease: He becomes fair game to be tackled like the other 20 guys on the pitch.

I like that Tim Thomas was able to lay a guy out, too: I'm sure that extra 40 pounds of equipment had no impact on the player.

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11-20-2012, 12:14 AM
  #136
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The one thing I never understood about the diving penalty is that they still issue the original "penalty" regardless of a dive. This does not make sense. Maybe players would be less apt to dive if it resulted in more shorthanded situations for their team?

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11-20-2012, 12:38 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
The one thing I never understood about the diving penalty is that they still issue the original "penalty" regardless of a dive. This does not make sense. Maybe players would be less apt to dive if it resulted in more shorthanded situations for their team?
Because they are usually embellishing penalties and not diving penalties, or maybe the referees just get the two confused.

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11-20-2012, 07:17 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
The one thing I never understood about the diving penalty is that they still issue the original "penalty" regardless of a dive. This does not make sense. Maybe players would be less apt to dive if it resulted in more shorthanded situations for their team?
Youre right but they only do it then the player actually does something. For example here jagr didnt get a penalty, i checked



http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=261030008
13:02 of the third period

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:23 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
How is it not that simple? You are being given an area on the ice where you are untouchable. Guess what happens to a goalie in soccer if he leaves his crease: He becomes fair game to be tackled like the other 20 guys on the pitch.
So you want hockey to be like soccer? Pretty sure you're in the minority there.

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11-20-2012, 07:42 AM
  #140
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I hope (but don't believe) that they would simply copy the standings and schedule system directly from NBA
1) Count point percentages, the current system of unequal games is ridiculous
2) Make each team play a home game against each team

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11-20-2012, 09:06 AM
  #141
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1. no touch icing. penalize a team that's trying to waste time when protecting a lead
2. 3 point rule. Win after regulation time is 3 points, overtime oder shoot out is 2 points plus the loser point. It's stupid that in some games 2 points are awarded, in others 3.
3. No line change for the penalized team after a penalty is called, like after an icing. We would see some interesting pk lineups until the next whistle or first clear, would improve pp %.

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11-20-2012, 10:40 AM
  #142
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Shrink the goalie equipment and the player equipment.

I don't want to shrink the goalie equipment just to make more scoring.
I want to make the goaltending position exciting again. It used to be the most exciting. Now it's probably the least.

Watching a goalie get hit with the puck isn't exciting. Watching a goalie kick out the pads, snatch the puck out of the air, etc is.

Watching a goalie put his glove in the air and spread it out like a bloody fishing net before he sees where the puck is going for example. Why are the gloves so massive?

Reality is that goalie equipment is not about protecting the goalies anymore. It's about improving their numbers. It has effectively leveled off the talent differential among goalies. So now we see some no name goalie breaking GAA and SVS records each year.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:32 AM
  #143
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I like the modern game in many ways. I would jus change a few things...

First, point system.
3 points for a win, 2 points for a OT win/SO win and 1 point for OT loss/SO loss. Make the first 60 min more important. I dont believe more OTs with more or less players should be allowed, its already a demanding and long season.

Teams should have choice of dark or white jersey. Home team chooses first and can veto with the league to reject the away teams choice of jersey.

I think goalies should have less padding, but without sacrificing safety. In time I am sure it will be, I believe the goalies should rely more on skill than padding size. Same with players equipment. There should be better equipment restrictions for players... smaller elbow pads and shoulder pads. The NHL and the NHLPA should focus more $ and time on doing this and improving helmets.

A few comments come about blocking shots... well as THN will show and I concur, blocking shots does not take away from the game. Almost 85% of people agreed to keep it. And I too love it, I think the sacrifice players do on defense for hitting, blocking shots and whatever should be honored better. Its exactly what hockey is about... but with smaller equipment as I proposed, it would limit it. So maybe it would make it more of a tough guy role to do. It forces forwards to be more poise, hence when you see Karlsson with the puck and he dangles past 2-3 shot blockers before sniping it home. Awesome.

I agree with the trapezoid. Goalies, who cannot hit or be hit, should have limited role in playing the puck especially the corners where they can just cause a ping pong affect of dumps and chases.




What I would ultimately love to see is no more lockouts.

A system with a President and a governing body which sole duty is to keep the game growing at the highest of levels which includes no work stoppages.


President elected by groups of hockey experts. Owners, GM, Head Coaches, Media, Players and maybe even subscribed NHL fans can get a vote for an individual who wishes to run for this job. A presidents main job is to grow hockey and the NHL at the highest levels. 10 Commandments or whatever are created that cannot be broken...

1) No Work Stoppages 2) PA and Owners are not allowed to receive more than 46% of HRR3) Fighting will remain in the game at some amount 4) All NHL teams must have affiliated teams 5) The players rights under the BoR must be followed and under laws that simply must keep the game intact.

Bill of rights i mentioned will keep players happy and respected and safe.
Concussion rules, not allowed to play more than a certain amount of games in one year without choice, max contracts and max lengths, avoid loops holes in contracts and respect past contracts.

The President can look to change rules not created under the commandments but his choices can be rejected by 2 groups. Checks and balances. A group of hockey experts who have a seat forever at the table so their votes can be swayed. A majority rule can veto any proposal. And the NHL/NHLPA group where a majority of both parties must accept any new proposals.

Something along these lines. Basic statements...
Get rid of a commissioner, a leader whose job is not under fire and obeys majority of owners. Respects players and their contracts. Create checks and balances.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:37 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
So you want hockey to be like soccer? Pretty sure you're in the minority there.
Those who dont want hockey to be more like the most popular sport in the world is obviously ignorant.

Now, I dont want a goalie to be fair game but i do like some rules where hes limited in his playing of the puck.

But like soccer, I want the game to be more about the team and less about players. I would love to see more games played between the NHL and the European teams and not just friendlies... International cups should be allowed...

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11-20-2012, 11:45 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Banana Sandwiches View Post
Artificial scoring is not going to make the game any better.
100% right. In fact, goals dont make the game better or worse. I have watched some crazy 1-0 games, many of which are 10x better than 5-4 games.

I believe hockey is at its best, when two teams are tight in skill and talent. That is why I like the hard cap system, it allows for even playing field among all franchises and forces teams to be better at coaching and managing.

In the past, I feel you had 3-4 elite teams entering the playoffs who could win it all. 70s Boston, Montreal, Philly. 80s Edmonton, Isles, Calgary. 90s New York, New Jersey, Detroit. And before that it was worse... 3 teams dominated the 40s 50s and 60s.

Maybe im missing 1 or 2 teams in each of those decades but the hard cap creates a much better playoff story. 16 teams, 12 of them can go all the way. No one expected the Rangers to win the league and when they did, they still had a top level philly, pittsburgh, new jersey and Ottawa team. West was even more shocking and the winner was an all around wow.



People want balance. not two teams and being right on many projections to which winning a series or a game

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:57 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I want to see 10 minute intermission, not 15
I want to see better coverage on goals that just occured, spend a few more seconds doing this
So, do you support them increasing concession prices, so that they can make as much revenue in a 10 minute intermission as they currently do in a 15 minute intermission?

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11-20-2012, 12:06 PM
  #147
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To those calculating the GPG for last years playoffs. The Flyers/Pens series had a 9.3 GPG. 56 goals. Huge statistical outlier and would have a large effect on the other series GPG

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11-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #148
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While I agree the quality of a game shouldn't be judged only based on the goals, but in general: more goals = better entertainment.
Think it this way...

A very exciting game: 6-5 game > 2-1 game. Think about the 1987 series between Canada vs Russia where all 3 games ended 6-5.

A boring game: 6-5 game > 2-1 game. I've seen some very boring defensive games ended 1-0, 2-0. I've wished that they could score a bit more so I could cheer and scream.

Priority:
1. Make the game flowing better, i.e. less stoppages, off-sides, etc.
2. More goals

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11-20-2012, 04:54 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Shrink the goalie equipment and the player equipment.

I don't want to shrink the goalie equipment just to make more scoring.
I want to make the goaltending position exciting again. It used to be the most exciting. Now it's probably the least.

Watching a goalie get hit with the puck isn't exciting. Watching a goalie kick out the pads, snatch the puck out of the air, etc is.

Watching a goalie put his glove in the air and spread it out like a bloody fishing net before he sees where the puck is going for example. Why are the gloves so massive?

Reality is that goalie equipment is not about protecting the goalies anymore. It's about improving their numbers. It has effectively leveled off the talent differential among goalies. So now we see some no name goalie breaking GAA and SVS records each year.
And yet, even with the goalie gear sizing regulations that have taken affect back at the last lockout, SV% has gone up considerably with smaller equipment.

Leg pads/blockers/gloves are the smallest they have been since the early 90's, while the C/A's are larger. I wear a pro-level C/A and have faced some major stingers through it by some players, if they improve the protection/mobility of the chest piece while slimming it down a tad, sure. In the mean time, it's not going to happen.

Now, more goals =/= a better game. The largest factor of goals going down are simply contributed to two things:

1: Much more emphasis on defense
- Watch the defensive systems NHL teams put in place today as in compared to 20 years ago and it's night and day. Offence doesn't win games, defense does. It's easier to stop chances from ever occurring than to get chances.

2. Goaltending talent/training is leagues better than it has ever been.
- with goaltenders growing up with coaches (which was never the case for back in the day) as well as a much improved training regiment. These guys are full on athletes now. They have a better toolbox in regards to save selections and how they play the game. Acrobatic saves =/= better goaltending. It's generally an occurance of being beaten by good offence or just by flat out being out of position.


What needs to be done is improve the flow of the game. With how everything is being shut down, large offensive opportunities are few and far between. By artificially increasing goals, you're just allowing for a game more in tuned to basketball.

What you need to focus on is allowing opportunities for the players to play the game and earn chances. A fast back and forth game with lots of shots that ends 2-1 is far more exciting than a game with 18-24 shots from outside the circles that barely had a chance to go in in the first place.

While some may come at me with: "lol ur a goaly, u r biased, lol". Think about it.

Give me some proof that the slow down in GPG is based mainly off the size of goaltending and i'll consider it.

But considering that when Goalies inflated their equipment to crazy sizes (Giguerre, Snow, Roy) the GPG were still higher, it's easy to see that goaltending equipment isn't the cause of the lower scoring games.

It's the defensive systems put in place by coaches which are the largest factor.

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11-20-2012, 05:22 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
The one thing I never understood about the diving penalty is that they still issue the original "penalty" regardless of a dive. This does not make sense. Maybe players would be less apt to dive if it resulted in more shorthanded situations for their team?
If I hook you and you dive, we've both committed an infraction.

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