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Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:32 PM
  #451
jeety mcjeet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryHabs View Post
No but I can tell you what he's saying.

''The owners have asked multiple concessions from the players and the players are willing to cut their salaries to get a deal done. However, owners do not feel it is enough and feel the need to restrict more and more any victory the players got in the last round of negotiations.

We are ready to meet to get a deal done without any conditions but that does not seem to be the case for them.''
You forgot fehr's 'what's in it for the players?'

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11-16-2012, 05:35 PM
  #452
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A byproduct of the last lockout was a renewed focus on the on ice product. After 10+ years of letting the game deteriorate, Gary finally got around to cleaning it up a little. Since then his "leadership" has botched the concussion issue, made a mess of suspensions and let the game regress. Gary leaves money on the table because he doesn't focus on the game and doesn't care what the fans think.



Teams will do anything they can to get those players, I would. Weber is easily worth that to a franchise imo. If the Preds could chose between the deal Weber got or 5 x 12m and having him be a free-agent again in 5 years, which would they chose?
There's absolutely no question they would take the 5 x 12. Especially if they are the team which gets stuck with the cap hit if he retires (instead of Philly).

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11-16-2012, 05:42 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
More like January. I love how the NHLPA is now cranking down on the "time is running out!" line, despite being the party that delayed the start of negotiations for months.
And when the NHLPA said they were ready to start (in May), the NHL delayed until late June.

Neither side is blameless.

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11-16-2012, 05:43 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Two main takeaway thoughts for me.



One - the journalists have no idea what they're talking about regarding which owners are doing what. We have one report insisting it's the small markets running the hard line show right now then this guy says its all the large markets are running the show. They can't both be right.




Two - the "send all the teams to Canada, profit" crowd needs to read the analysis about how Winnipeg made "not very much" profit, with the league's 25th highest salary, that they expect to be the largest they ever make, and will eventually be reduced to losing money and/or losing all their star players.
I agree that there is a lot of "confusion" as to who is driving the lockout from the owner's side.

However, I would not buy too much into the "Winnipeg did not make very much last year" talk. I think Winnipeg did more than just ok last year....

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11-16-2012, 05:52 PM
  #455
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Neither side is blameless.
Really the only thing anyone can say with certitude at this point.

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11-16-2012, 05:57 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
And when the NHLPA said they were ready to start (in May), the NHL delayed until late June.

Neither side is blameless.
When did that happen? The NHL tried to get them to negotiate all season and Fehr and the geniuses in the PA said no, to wait. But now theyre spewing the "we can play under the old CBA and negotiate"...So, you couldnt negotiate last season and play, but now you can? very convenient

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11-16-2012, 06:00 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Really the only thing anyone can say with certitude at this point.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
And when the NHLPA said they were ready to start (in May), the NHL delayed until late June.

Neither side is blameless.
When did that occur?

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:01 PM
  #458
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The PA didn't even get their negotiating committee filled until 6/30.

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11-16-2012, 06:02 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
And when the NHLPA said they were ready to start (in May), the NHL delayed until late June.

Neither side is blameless.
Hmm, what's happening in May during a hockey season?

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:04 PM
  #460
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John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet

Bill Daly confirms he had a brief conversation with Steve Fehr. As a result...no meetings planned. #tickticktick

Even during tough times, the relationship between Bill and Steve is staying strong.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:06 PM
  #461
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NHL is making it clear that unless the PA has something new to the table, there is no need to talk.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:07 PM
  #462
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What?

Why should the players have to give up anything to assure the league stays healthy?

They should be able to extract every last penny that they possibly can so they can put their very ability to actually earn at all at risk!
And what happens when the owners can no longer pay for the players? They ****ing fold and hundreds of players lose their jobs.

It's in the players best interest to have 30+ healthy teams because it ensures an industry where 700+ high school dropouts can make millions of dollars a year.

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11-16-2012, 06:07 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by uncleherman77 View Post
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet

Bill Daly confirms he had a brief conversation with Steve Fehr. As a result...no meetings planned. #tickticktick

Even during tough times, the relationship between Bill and Steve is staying strong.
I bet that if you let these guys run their respective sides they would get a deal done pretty quick. Unfortunately they have to take orders from the idiots above them.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:09 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Stuck in Socal View Post
NHL is making it clear that unless the PA has something new to the table, there is no need to talk.
I don't think Bettman/Daly will allow Fehr to buy more time by meeting and doing nothing to move the process forward. They probably should have cut him off earlier.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:15 PM
  #465
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynight...#id=2305709015

this should be in here as well.
theres a seperate thread if you want to talk about it though.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...php?p=55818415

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:16 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
There's absolutely no question they would take the 5 x 12. Especially if they are the team which gets stuck with the cap hit if he retires (instead of Philly).
I disagree, I think those contracts were about helping the team, not helping the player. The same benefit the Flyers were looking for in cap savings applies to the Preds budget.

I don't believe the NHL or the teams have a huge problem with those deals. Gary is pissed that teams found a loophole and he wants to protect teams from making really long-term mistakes.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:17 PM
  #467
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Limiting the length of deals and front loading is going to make it harder for those teams to sign star players. Term and front loading offer flexibility.

Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf are worth 10m per x 5 years. Good luck Anaheim.
By "flexibility" you really mean "cap circumvention".

These contract rules aren't to protect owners form players it's to protect owners from other owners.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:30 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I disagree, I think those contracts were about helping the team, not helping the player. The same benefit the Flyers were looking for in cap savings applies to the Preds budget.

I don't believe the NHL or the teams have a huge problem with those deals. Gary is pissed that teams found a loophole and he wants to protect teams from making really long-term mistakes.
Of course they are to help the team - the only purpose is to circumvent the salary cap and allow more star players at a discount cap hit. As that nonsense only benefits (and have only been offered by) a small number of teams however, I think it's likely that quite a few teams want those contracts gone. Why would small market teams want to have their stars stolen by poison pill contracts?

And I think having a high cap hit (which, with the latest proposal, they are stuck with regardless of who owns the player when they retire) and a large number of uninsurable years, I'm going to say plenty of teams would be much happier with the limited year contract. Agree to disagree.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:31 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
By "flexibility" you really mean "cap circumvention".

These contract rules aren't to protect owners form players it's to protect owners from other owners.
Yes, but well run teams and their fans suffer. You can close the cap circumvention loophole without making it impossible for teams to sign stars long-term.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:31 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
I bet that if you let these guys run their respective sides they would get a deal done pretty quick. Unfortunately they have to take orders from the idiots above them.
I think if Daly and Steve Fehr were running the two sides, and Bettman and Donald Fehr were number 2, that Bettman and Donald would be in constant communication and Daly and Steve would be arguing it out through the media. It's posturing and leadership, the number 2s hammer out the details.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:33 PM
  #471
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KKurzCSN 3:19pm via Twitter for Mac Dan Boyle worried about potential long-term damage to the #NHL #SJSharks #SharksTalk csnbayarea.com/hockey-san-jos…

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11-16-2012, 06:39 PM
  #472
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Boyle has been one of the few levelheaded ones throughout this process. Good on.him.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:39 PM
  #473
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I always thought it was the NHLPA that kept delaying?

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:39 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Of course they are to help the team - the only purpose is to circumvent the salary cap and allow more star players at a discount cap hit. As that nonsense only benefits (and have only been offered by) a small number of teams however, I think it's likely that quite a few teams want those contracts gone. Why would small market teams want to have their stars stolen by poison pill contracts?
They can close those loopholes and make limitations on those poison pill contracts without limiting contracts to 5 years. The 5 year limit isn't about helping the Preds, it's about saving the Islanders etc from themselves.

The preds budget isn't likely to change whether Weber makes 12m or averages 8-10, those are real money savings. I don't see how it helps them long term to have to pay more money per, the player is likely to make even more next contract, maybe a lot more and they're team suffers because of budget concerns, just like on a cap team. It probably means even more to the Preds, they have less money to work with in the first place.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-16-2012 at 06:51 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 06:40 PM
  #475
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so dan why dont you guys just come back to the table with linkage and end this right now?

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